Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[example1]

One thing I am really beginning to wonder about is the number of guys that really made improvements in their offensive numbers after the 2010 season, in 2011 and 2012. Since we know newer, harder to trace, PED's that the league may not be as well prepared to test for have been making the rounds of the sports world generally, I am starting to wonder if there is a link between what is a two year stretch of remarkably different numbers for some guys and PED use.

 

It it were me, and I was inclined to that sort of thing, I would use them until I had a big contract under my belt and then discontinue usage at that point. Why risk being caught when your bug guaranteed contract is in place. Pick it up again when my contract came up again.

 

Can you cite some guys you are thinking of? LaRoche?

[Spitball]

He doesn't have much leverage for a trade. I can't see him holding out. But if the SOx will take on Nolasco and Morrisons contracts as well, then maybe they can find some kind of common ground.

 

I would love to see the Sox get Stanton but really doubt the Marlins will trade the one player who might draw fans to their fairly new stadium.

 

Even if Stanton says he wants out, what good will it do him? He does not have any leverage to demand a trade.

 

And, as much as I'd love to see the Sox get Stanton, I'd hate to see the Marlins do such a thing to their fans and to all of baseball. It is a shame what they have already done by trading away Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, and Buck. They shouldn't be permited to create further shame to the game. Lorie should be ousted at this point.

[a700hitter]

So you are saying the opposite? The opposite is that it would be easy to pull off, you said earlier that wasn't what you were saying.

I'll stop your quote right here, because the rest of your post is irrelevant since your assumption in this question is inaccurate. I said that BSN had little basis to make the statement he made-- that it would be be extremely hard to move Reyes contract. I stand by that statement, and taking issue with the statement that something would be "extremely hard" doesn't equate with me believing that it would be easy. You are all mixed up. Look at what he said and what I said, not what you think I meant through your warped filter of who you think I am.

[example1]

I would love to see the Sox get Stanton but really doubt the Marlins will trade the one player who might draw fans to their fairly new stadium.

 

Even if Stanton says he wants out, what good will it do him? He does not have any leverage to demand a trade.

 

And, as much as I'd love to see the Sox get Stanton, I'd hate to see the Marlins do such a thing to their fans and to all of baseball. It is a shame what they have already done by trading away Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, and Buck. They shouldn't be permited to create further shame to the game. Lorie should be ousted at this point.

 

I would hate to see it too... if I were a Marlins fan, which I'm not. Stanton should be showcased in a city that cares about baseball. I'm not sure the Sox have the showstopper talent needed to land him though. The Marlins probably don't want anyone who would contribute now (their eligibility would be wasted) and the Sox don't have the Dylan Bundy-esque prospects who are near-certain stars in the future. Iglesias might have held more value to a team in Miami, but they have plenty of SS talent now too, so a package including him wouldn't swing much.

[a700hitter]

I would love to see the Sox get Stanton but really doubt the Marlins will trade the one player who might draw fans to their fairly new stadium.

 

Even if Stanton says he wants out, what good will it do him? He does not have any leverage to demand a trade.

 

And, as much as I'd love to see the Sox get Stanton, I'd hate to see the Marlins do such a thing to their fans and to all of baseball. It is a shame what they have already done by trading away Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, and Buck. They shouldn't be permited to create further shame to the game. Lorie should be ousted at this point.

What fans? The Marlins have none.

[jung]

I want to look further at games played before offering specific opinions. We are being told (rightly or wrongly) that the contemporary PED is helping players maintain their strength and fitness more than the old steroids that used to add strength. They make recovery easier for example.

 

I also want to see if I can link players to some extent as one thing we have seen is players on the same team or traveling in the same circles involved.

 

Possibly Encarnacion and Bautista for example. Encarnacion's games played has risen steadily from 2010 though 2012 and his power numbers have actually climbed much faster than his games played has climbed. Bautista's power numbers have climbed substantially while not making a change like home venue and both of them play for the Jays. Gonna try to see what I can find that is linked between 2010 and 2012 and that is linked player to player either by agent, by team or some other way.

[example1]

I'll stop your quote right here, because the rest of your post is irrelevant since your assumption in this question is inaccurate. I said that BSN had little basis to make the statement he made-- that it would be be extremely hard to move Reyes contract. I stand by that statement, and taking issue with the statement that something would be "extremely hard" doesn't equate with me believing that it would be easy. You are all mixed up. Look at what he said and what I said, not what you think I meant through your warped filter of who you think I am.

 

I know what he said.

 

What it boils down to is that you would be okay with them having to trade him in a few years if he stinks, gets injured, or doesn't contribute what is needed to make the team good. You would be okay with the likely price for them to make the deal at that time.

 

My experience with you on this board, however, after 7 years, is that you openly and roundly ridicule the FO when they are in the position of trying to "dump" contracts. You take it as a sign of someone having made a miscalculation in the past. Your posts imply that you would just let it slide for Reyes--and maybe that's the case--but I (and others here) can very easily envision your posts about the Red Sox bungling it again, or Ben having his lunch eaten by someone else, or whatever, when he's out there looking for fifty-cents on the dollar to move Reyes so the team can start going in another direction yet again.

 

If Reyes had a bad year (like 2009 and 2010) and then got injured, it would be a huge setback for the club.

[example1]

I want to look further at games played before offering specific opinions. We are being told (rightly or wrongly) that the contemporary PED is helping players maintain their strength and fitness more than the old steroids that used to add strength. They make recovery easier for example.

 

I also want to see if I can link players to some extent as one thing we have seen is players on the same team or traveling in the same circles involved.

 

Possibly Encarnacion and Bautista for example. Encarnacion's games played has risen steadily from 2010 though 2012 and his power numbers have actually climbed much faster than his games played has climbed. Bautista's power numbers have climbed substantially while not making a change like home venue and both of them play for the Jays. Gonna try to see what I can find that is linked between 2010 and 2012 and that is linked player to player either by agent, by team or some other way.

 

A worthwhile examination, in my opinion. Those two are a good place to start too.

[a700hitter]

I know what he said.

 

What it boils down to is that you would be okay with them having to trade him in a few years if he stinks, gets injured, or doesn't contribute what is needed to make the team good. You would be okay with the likely price for them to make the deal at that time.

 

My experience with you on this board, however, after 7 years, is that you openly and roundly ridicule the FO when they are in the position of trying to "dump" contracts. You take it as a sign of someone having made a miscalculation in the past. Your posts imply that you would just let it slide for Reyes--and maybe that's the case--but I (and others here) can very easily envision your posts about the Red Sox bungling it again, or Ben having his lunch eaten by someone else, or whatever, when he's out there looking for fifty-cents on the dollar to move Reyes so the team can start going in another direction yet again.

 

If Reyes had a bad year (like 2009 and 2010) and then got injured, it would be a huge setback for the club.

What is with you? I'll say it for about the 5th time today. I said it yesterday too. A new SS didn't even make the top 4 on my wish list for the Red Sox this off season. What makes you think I wanted them to after Reyes? Nothing has changed since yesterday, but you are still looking to argue about things I never said and don't believe. Talk about pathetic.<_>

[reYoukilis]

And, as much as I'd love to see the Sox get Stanton, I'd hate to see the Marlins do such a thing to their fans and to all of baseball. It is a shame what they have already done by trading away Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, and Buck. They shouldn't be permited to create further shame to the game. Lorie should be ousted at this point.

 

Yeah but that what the Marlins do. They buy championships and then sell them. Plus it serves them right for not filling those bright orange seats that blind me everytime I see a highlight

[a700hitter]

My experience with you on this board, however, after 7 years,

Your filter has been coloring everything wrong for 7 years.

i changed my avatar to the friendliest dog that ever lived. Cats smiled when they saw her. I had hoped that it would put you in a better frame of mind when you read my posts. I thought that Clint Eastwood might be too confrontational for you to handle, but yet you still read things that aren't there in ways I never intended and you argue with me even after I tell you what I meant. Hopeless. Seven years and you still can't figure me out.

[Station 13]

What fans? The Marlins have none.

 

You wonder why the team hasn't been force to move to Charlotte or another city. Baseball and Florida don't mix.

[jung]

The more I read about the Marlins new stadium the more the deal that built and maintains it appears to reek to high heaven. Large amounts of taxpayer money has been used to fund the construction of the place and much of the operating expenses including maintenance of the facility and the lease of the parking facility from the County are all expenses incurred by the City of Miami. So while the Marlins get to run the park and generate revenue in the park the operating expenses are the responsibility of the City. So the Marlins performance as a business is in the main detached from a big chunk of operating expenses that the City must pay for regardless of how well the team does or does not do. It looks like at a minimum the City ends up with $2.25M in annual expenses that it must pay regardless of what happens.

 

Apparently before the deal was finalized the City tried to get some protection in the contract with the Marlins but all efforts to do so got shot down with the Marlins continually pressuring government officials to act promptly to "save baseball" in South Florida.

 

The Marlins cried poor the entire time. Then their balance sheet was leaked to the press showing that they were actually making double what they were plowing back into the team in payroll. At the same time, the league called them to task for not taking its cut of the league dollars that come back to them and using appropriate percentages of that money for player payroll, choosing to pocket the difference.

 

The Mayor of Miami was ousted in a recall vote primarily attached to his support for the project and other government officials have been ousted as well. In effect Loria sits in the catbird seat with expenses fleshed off on taxpayers. So they get the risk....he gets the profits.

 

It looks very much like the City tried to work with Loria while protecting itself but Loria was able to pull together support from key political figures and and judicial officials such that each time the City tried to get some protection it could not get it done. It almost seems like once the taxpayers got roped into initiating its dealings with Loria it confronted a stacked deck at every turn. You almost get the feeling that if they could have done it, the City would have extricated itself from the deal but Loria had the muscle even to keep that from happening. Talk about being held by the nose and kicked in the ass.

[Spitball]

Loria should be forced out of baseball. He ruined the Expos and now the Marlins. In the past, the Fish waited until they had at least won a championship before selling out.

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/13/its-time-for-bud-selig-to-force-jeffrey-loria-out-of-mlb/

[jung]

If you could find a way to tax $$ and economic impact flowing back into the community that would make the expenditure of tax money worthwhile that would be one thing. But how do you explain to people out of work, losing homes, trying to feed their kids that the County and City are on the hook for the construction costs of the stadium, on the hook for long term operating and maintenance expenses that will be there even at nominal facility usage and neither tax money nor economic impact coming in at anything like a rate that makes this any sort of a venture for them? How do you explain that Loria pushed and pushed and lined up political and judicial allies in such a way that the City just could not gain any protections and could not get out, even when it tried to before a shovel went into the ground. Theo used to have state troopers around his home here. Loria might need the National Guard. By rites it should not take baseball to get him out. The community should run him out of town on a rail.

[Spitball]

Some of us have been around long enough to remember Joe Rudi and Rollie Fingers being sold to the Red Sox in the mid-1970s. The Globe and Record American even posted a picture of them in Red Sox uniforms before Bowie Kuhn stepped in and nixed the deal in the best interest of baseball. Vida Blue had earlier been traded to Cincinnati only to see Kuhn stop the move to protect the integrity of baseball. Maybe the commissioner no longer has the same power, but that is too bad. Baseball needs protection from stupid owners.

[SoxSport]

Stanton would cost them several top prospects, even if they could make a deal. Not sure they want to give up their best prospects right now.

 

The talk on mlb.com tonite on the Rose/Millar show was Hamilton to Boston. The feeling is the Sox need a superstar for that market, to anchor the lineup, and they know it. They have the money to get him, and it could happen, though nobody's talking right now, for understandable reasons. Sean Casey seemed to think so, said Hamilton could go upstairs to the "sofa room" in the clubhouse where no media is allowed, if necessary.

[jung]

It could work out if they keep the years under control. I think there is less true interest in Hamilton than people perceive there to be which could play into the Sox hands if they really do make a run at him.

[Spitball]

Amazingly enough, Hamilton might be the best "buy low" bargain in the history of baseball. The Sox need pitching, but I hope they nab this guy. He is the ultimate five tool player.

[Dojji]

I don't want him anywhere near Boston's bar culture. That would be disastrous for him personally as well as professionally.

 

Beer in the clubhouse and a man with actual alcoholism (not a drunk, there's a difference) is a bad combination.

[Spitball]

I don't want him anywhere near Boston's bar culture. That would be disastrous for him personally as well as professionally.

 

Beer in the clubhouse and a man with actual alcoholism (not a drunk, there's a difference) is a bad combination.

 

Beer is in every clubhouse. I grew up in the Boston area and have been to the Dallas/Fort Worth area many times. There is a bar culture in both areas.

[jung]

No question that there is a bar culture in both places but they are still totally different environments. Dallas is still a town where people will look at you oddly for jaywalking. I have little doubt having spent considerable time in both places that Boston will be tougher on Hamilton than any part of Texas ever thought of being.

 

Alcohol is far from Hamilton's only addiction related issue.

[Spitball]

No question that there is a bar culture in both places but they are still totally different environments. Dallas is still a town where people will look at you oddly for jaywalking. I have little doubt having spent considerable time in both places that Boston will be tougher on Hamilton than any part of Texas ever thought of being.

 

Alcohol is far from Hamilton's only addiction related issue.

 

Hamilton is a gamble...but a very, very talented gamble. His problems and addiction problems are publicly known. He has been a successful superstar for five years. Drugs and alcohol have not significantly affected his play in that time.

 

Drugs and alcohol can affect a person's performance. Age, injury, psychological issues, and many other problems also can affect a person's performance.

 

Josh Hamilton is the best offensive upgrade I can see available to the Sox.

[reYoukilis]

I think theres a good chance that a team out there with nothing to lose that will overpay Hamilton and we shouldnt match it. Even if that team is the Yankees.

[wyo-sox]

America has a bar culture. Boston does not offer any unique temptations. Hamilton's addictions were publicized. I am quite sure there are many current MLB players who abuse drugs, alcohol, people, pills, roids etc......... The fact Josh's struggles have been somewhat open to the public do not make me much more concerned over any other player who I know nothing about what is in their closet. Maybe in some ways I would be less concerned. Josh touched booze twice in the last few years and was instantly held accountable in the press, and he stood up and admitted he messed up. Think any other ball players got drunk or abused drugs the past few years?

[jung]

Hamilton surely is the best offensive option out there. However I would not go nuts with years especially at his age and whether he finds a way to stay out of trouble here or not, to think this is the same environment with the same sort of temptations that exist in Dallas is just naive.

 

If I am not mistaken, the Rangers have had someone rooming with Hamilton full time as a means to help him maintain. It will take at least that much here. While you are on the road so much as a pro ballplayer, the dif will be that he will be coming home to an environment, Boston were there is much more opportunity....it is simply a much more wide open environment here......

 

Boston may take him and it may all turn out to be fine. However as I said above judging Boston not a more difficult environment for him to control his demons is just naive.....

 

As we all know...this can be a very hostile environment to a ballplayer that is making big money and underperforming as well. There may be pressures waiting for him here that he has not really faced before in his professional career. You can well imagine what folks will be yelling from the stands here if he falls into a slump and the hostile home crowd "fans" decide to let him hear it.

[jung]

I wonder if the verbal assurances that the Marlins apparently gave both Buehrle and Reyes will amount to anything as far as the trade itself goes. Apparently Buehrle is unhappy because assurances were made to both him and his wife and they had settled in Florida under that premise. The Marlins do not offer no trade clauses in their contracts. I guess the message there is of course "How can you tell that Loria is lying...his lips are moving." Doubt the Marlins will get anybody to buy into that line of BS ever again.

 

When Reyes was asked if he received the same assurances his response was "a vehement yes". In his case part of his displease apparently stems from the fact that the trade to the Jays will cost him $8M in taxes if the entire remainder of his contract is played out in Toronto.

[SeanJohn93]

I think the sox should take a hard look at adding a pitcher like Shaun Marcum or even seeing if the Brewers would be interested in a trade involving Yovani Gollardo

[jung]

I think Marcum is really worth looking at. I wonder how many years Kuroda would really want. If they can go short term for Kuroda as a means of helping the pitching through 2013 and maybe 2014 he might be a great option as well. In fact, if the Sox are really going to try for more than respectability and a second WC in 2013 maybe even Soriano would be worth a go as well. They can probably move Bailey somewhere. I would take my chances with Soriano as a closer before Bailey.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kuroda sounds like he's heading back to LA