Report: Gonzo, Sox blast Bobby V to Owners

[SoxSport]

I saw in a tweet that this "meeting" was first reported by Joel Sherman-- a NY reporter.

We all know NY reporters are always looking for stuff to undermine the Red Sox--which they regard as the "enemy."

 

I have no doubt there was a meeting. But who was there and what was said I would take with a grain of salt.

[SoxSport]

The entire Bard fiasco is further evidence that Cherrington is incompetent. If anyone should be fired it should be Cherrington.

 

Traditionally, GMs get fired much less frequently than the manager. Shakeups often have to go higher to change a GM.

 

Henry needs to move Lucchino over to his old job, and hire a team VP--Epstein type-- from the outside. John Hart would be perfect. He should reorganize the front office, which has lost some key people the last couple years.

 

Just think, Mr Henry, expert consultation free of charge.

[Elktonnick]

Traditionally, GMs get fired much less frequently than the manager. Shakeups often have to go higher to change a GM.

 

Henry needs to move Lucchino over to his old job, and hire a team VP--Epstein type-- from the outside. John Hart would be perfect. He should reorganize the front office, which has lost some key people the last couple years.

 

Just think, Mr Henry, expert consultation free of charge.

 

I agree the entire organization above the on field manager needs to be totally reorganized. I do not know if Lucchino is part of the problem or not. I don't know if Cherrington was his choice for GM but I tend to think not. From what I have seen I have come to the conclusion John Henry likes to have different voices. I don't think he ever empowered fully Lucchino, Cherrington or BV for that matter. JH has to change his style which is probably unlikely. In anycase no matter who else goes or stays Cherrington needs to go. I simply don't trust his judgment nor advice. I think he is a poor evaluator of talent and people.

[kapsis21]

I saw in a tweet that this "meeting" was first reported by Joel Sherman-- a NY reporter.

We all know NY reporters are always looking for stuff to undermine the Red Sox--which they regard as the "enemy."

 

I have no doubt there was a meeting. But who was there and what was said I would take with a grain of salt.

 

I have been saying it all along NY fukcing media is after every little detail on what the sox do, and the sox team couldnt have kept this meeting anywhere else but in NY.

 

every minor thing that sox do is getting blown out of proportion..

 

there might be some truth to Pedey and Agon whining who knows. but they keep giving media something to portray how bad the team is functioning.

 

very hard to watch this team play right now!

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes, it's the NY media. None of the Boston media have any dirt that they are airing at all /sarcasm. OPEN YOUR EYES!

[jung]

Blame upper management and business operations for having put together a bad combination of players and calling it a team but blame the players themselves for their on field performance.

 

The game is played on the field and they simply play like s***. V gets some of the blame but mainly for not being himself....he may well have been doomed to go down from the start but at least he should have gone down his way. His field decisions have not been great in some instances but we have watched this team play all year....what would you do?

 

They don't do much of anything well. They are slipping in runs scored (now third) and with Ortiz out and Salty not dependable they are slipping in the HR totals as well.

[Designated Hater]

Don't blame New York media for this. Sure, they are always snooping around for s*** to say about Boston, but it IS news when players convene in a room that looks like it could be a meeting.

 

If you blame the NY media, you are as bad as Red Sox ownership and need to look at yourself in the mirror.

[Designated Hater]

Agons gave evidence of being a whiny little skank last year and has just confirmed it this year.

 

A Gon gave proof that he is a sheepish bitch in his introduction press conference when he was seemingly TOLD to say "I look forward to beating the Yanks".

 

Who talks like that?

 

The Yanks?

 

What a bozo.

 

I can't stand this guy and you want to talk about albatross contracts with Crawford and Lackey? Include this douche in that discussion, Mr. Singles 2012

[a700hitter]

http://www.csnne.com/baseball-boston-redsox/redsox-talk/Red-Sox-players-scrambling-amid-reports-?blockID=756887&feedID=3352

 

Joe Haggerty:

When underperforming, malcontent players are forming a mutiny on the manager and Sox ownership has suddenly turned deaf, dumb and blind after a wonderful initial run from 2002-2008, the end isn’t just near.

 

It seems that this Sox season was doomed before it even got started with the same group of players and the same apathy from the owner’s box.

 

It won’t get better until somebody starts radically altering the DNA of this team and finally admitting there are some epic problems that need to be properly addressed once the season is over.

[Gringo]

The whole thing is a mess, and blame can and should be spread around in equal measure, in my opinion. Henry and Werner are clueless weirdos, LL is at heart a megalomaniacal control freak, Cherington is a gutless puppet, Valentine is a motormouth whose time has passed, and the players are a bunch of pampered, entitled, underperforming *******s.

 

Losing Johnny Pesky this week puts this s*** show in it's proper perspective. For the FIRST time in my 33 years supporting this ball club I'm EMBARRASSED to be a Red Sox fan.

 

This season can't end quick enough.

[SemperFi Sox]

winter meetings should be fun......I luv trade rumors during that time.

[BornToRun]

I used to be a big bobby v backer early in the year purely because I feel like his actual in game strategy is pretty sound. Unfortunately, he's so much of a jackass that his pluses as an actual manager are heavily outweighed by his jackassery. I liked him for a while but it has become evident that he needs to go.

[BornToRun]

A Gon gave proof that he is a sheepish bitch in his introduction press conference when he was seemingly TOLD to say "I look forward to beating the Yanks".

 

Who talks like that?

 

The Yanks?

 

What a bozo.

 

I can't stand this guy and you want to talk about albatross contracts with Crawford and Lackey? Include this douche in that discussion, Mr. Singles 2012

 

Are we gonna just go ahead and ignore his season last year? Are we just striking that from the record?

[ibot2much]

Great line from Carfaldo's front page story in the GLOBE this morning

 

"In regard to Lester being left in the July 22 game, Pedroia acknowledged that he had a problem with it and other players did as well, but he added,"Titio did it a few times a year and I let him hear about it. Stuff like that happens all the time."

 

I LET HIM HEAR ABOUT IT!!! I guess that's how we do things around here.

[kapsis21]

SO MEDIA blowing the s*** again out of nothing.. just like I predicted.. fuking NY media

[Thunder]

SO MEDIA blowing the s*** again out of nothing.. just like I predicted.. fuking NY media

 

Why are you surprised?

[kapsis21]

Why are you surprised?

 

I am infuriated not surprised. but if there is any truth to why they went to upper mgmt just because Lester was left in too long, i think its BS and Pedey knows better.

if you do not trust your manager, the team is going no where. let him do his job

[jung]

I do think JH's comments today were more JH ******** and self serving. I think Agons comments were self serving and may have been a bit of a white lie...who knows....I don't.

 

V's interview today was by far the most telling of all. He is clearly starting to break down from his earlier interviews where he has defended his players. He did not criticize his players but he did not defend them either and got very close to criticism. I am guessing that the day he goes out the door, he is going to lower the boom on this whole miserable mess.

 

As for the meeting in question at least to me there is room for both of the reasons released to the media about the genesis of that NY meeting.

 

The media report is that Agons communicated to JH the desire to have a meeting and that the genesis was V leaving Lester in for 11 runs.

 

The JH story was that he (meaning JH) asked for the meeting and that it was meant to have a much broader set of topics than V or even V ala' the Lester 11 run start.

 

Having gone through things like this as a manager, I have some ideas about what might have happened. I don't know but I have an idea. Agons may have asked for the meeting and may have been as specific about the topic matter as V in general or V about a specific incident. Having had many opportunities to engage in a group meeting of that type as a manager I did not ever avail myself of the opportunity to allow that kind of meeting to take place. I would communicate back to the person sending me the message that I would like to have a meeting but the subject matter for the meeting would be much more broadly based than some one employee in the chain of command between me and some group. If somebody wanted to talk to me one on one about somebody that worked for me...fine...a group meeting with that subject matter....no way. If that is what JH did, then that leaves room for both of the news releases about the genesis for this meeting. Agons asked for one type of meeting and JH responded back to AGons that he wanted a different subject matter making it JH's meeting.

 

Why am I inclined to suggest that the story about AGons communication to JH being the start of the process resulting in this meeting is closer to accurate? Mainly because if your boss sent out a message to employees asking for a broadly based meeting, subject matter regarding what could be done to improve the organization (JH's version) then every employee invited shows up for that meeting and none of the employees at that level in the organization are left uninvited. JH would have invited every player instead of just responding back to Agons. Seventeen players showed up for this meeting with the remainder supposedly not showing up because they had no interest in attending a meeting to complain about V. That by itself suggests that it was not a meeting initiated by JH and not a meeting that the players thought would be broadly based. They all would have shown up for a broadly based meeting to discuss how to improve the team generally and in fact any player would have been noticeably absent if he did not attend a meeting so defined. Frankly the only thing that makes sense knowing that seventeen players came is that the players were under the impression that it would be a session allowing them to air their differences with V and some of the players were unwilling to attend such a meeting.

 

Just play better Red Sox....just play better....what a novel idea.

[jung]

I do think JH's comments today were more JH ******** and self serving. I think Agons comments were self serving and may have been a bit of a white lie...who knows....I don't.

 

V's interview today was by far the most telling of all. He is clearly starting to break down from his earlier interviews where he has defended his players. He did not criticize his players but he did not defend them either and got very close to criticism. I am guessing that the day he goes out the door, he is going to lower the boom on this whole miserable mess.

 

As for the meeting in question at least to me there is room for both of the reasons released to the media about the genesis of that NY meeting.

 

The media report is that Agons communicated to JH the desire to have a meeting and that the genesis was V leaving Lester in for 11 runs.

 

The JH story was that he (meaning JH) asked for the meeting and that it was meant to have a much broader set of topics than V or even V ala' the Lester 11 run start.

 

Having gone through things like this as a manager, I have some ideas about what might have happened. I don't know but I have an idea. Agons may have asked for the meeting and may have been as specific about the topic matter as V in general or V about a specific incident. Having had many opportunities to engage in a group meeting of that type as a manager I did not ever avail myself of the opportunity to allow that kind of meeting to take place. I would communicate back to the person sending me the message that I would like to have a meeting but the subject matter for the meeting would be much more broadly based than some one employee in the chain of command between me and some group. If somebody wanted to talk to me one on one about somebody that worked for me...fine...a group meeting with that subject matter....no way. If that is what JH did, then that leaves room for both of the news releases about the genesis for this meeting. Agons asked for one type of meeting and JH responded back to AGons that he wanted a different subject matter making it JH's meeting.

 

Why am I inclined to suggest that the story about AGons communication to JH being the start of the process resulting in this meeting is closer to accurate? Mainly because if your boss sent out a message to employees asking for a broadly based meeting, subject matter regarding what could be done to improve the organization (JH's version) then every employee invited shows up for that meeting and none of the employees at that level in the organization are left uninvited. JH would have invited every player instead of just responding back to Agons. Seventeen players showed up for this meeting with the remainder supposedly not showing up because they had no interest in attending a meeting to complain about V. That by itself suggests that it was not a meeting initiated by JH and not a meeting that the players thought would be broadly based. They all would have shown up for a broadly based meeting to discuss how to improve the team generally and in fact any player would have been noticeably absent if he did not attend a meeting so defined. Frankly the only thing that makes sense to me knowing that seventeen players came is that the players were under the impression that it would be a session allowing them to air their differences with V and some of the players were unwilling to attend such a meeting.

 

Just play better Red Sox....just play better....what a novel idea.

[Emmz]

A Gon gave proof that he is a sheepish bitch in his introduction press conference when he was seemingly TOLD to say "I look forward to beating the Yanks".

 

Who talks like that?

 

The Yanks?

 

What a bozo.

 

I can't stand this guy and you want to talk about albatross contracts with Crawford and Lackey? Include this douche in that discussion, Mr. Singles 2012

 

You'll be banned shortly I'm sure, but for now, I can just tell you he has an .826 OPS this season, to let you know what a dipshit you really are.

[VA Sox Fan]

Ultimately, as we all know, this season is on the players and they have admitted it.

 

The hiring of Bobby V was a huge mistake though. He's a dolt and he runs his mouth too much. There was a reason he was out of the major leagues for so long. Thanks Lucchino.

 

I love the Red Sox but it's almost more embarassing to be a Red Sox fan now than prior to 2004. Who would have thought that? I'm still watching all of the games, we all know how hard that's become.

[mvp 78]

It's ALWAYS the players. That was the big problem with last offseason. Just changing Tito and Theo wasn't going to cut it.

[SoxSport]

Olney tweeted Joel Sherman of the NY Post broke this story about a Red Sox meeting in NY.

Passan of yahoo was also involved. Yahoo is also NY based, and if you follow their internet sports, they cover the NY teams heavily, as do most of the networks (ESPN, CBS, etc) which are based in NY.

 

None of these networks are very Boston friendly. Even MLB TV , also NY based, gushes over the Yankees and has been giving the Dodgers royal treatment lately.

 

So there you have it. Henry is up against the big markets--mainly NY. And all the negative spin that comes out of NY about Boston teams.

 

There was a meeting in NY. We know that. But we don't really know anything else, except that what the media reported has been denied by several Red Sox at different levels.

 

Who was the guy who confirmed to Passant there was a meeting? None other than Cherington.

Turns out he's got a big mouth too, when he wants to talk.

[SoxSport]

It's ALWAYS the players. That was the big problem with last offseason. Just changing Tito and Theo wasn't going to cut it.

 

Lucchino/Henry's big mistake. They didn't clean house enough, and created factions.

It's their fault. You can talk all you want about V and the players, but it's LL/Henry's fault.

They let the players get out of control, and they kept a lot of management holdovers who didn't accept their choice of manager.

 

Henry didn't fix the problem.

[jung]

Well since Cherington confirmed...somebody else already told Passan that there was a meeting. If you are confirming you are not the original source.

[SoxSport]

Threads are often mistitled when based on unsubstantiated information. This one is a good example. Too bad the author of the thread can't go back and change the title, as more information becomes available.

 

Nobody really knows what went on in that meeting. Or whether AdGon said anything about the manager. It's all media conjecture. And yet, here it is posted as though it were fact.

 

Posters should be mindful that not everything the media says is true. The facts are very often unimportant in their scheme of things.

[SoxSport]

Well since Cherington confirmed...somebody else already told Passan that there was a meeting. If you are confirming you are not the original source.

 

I think he was out of line confirming anything. The boss should be doing the confirming.

I get the impression Cherington delights in any criticism of Valentine.

 

They have had several meetings like this over the years, and they were always kept secret.

The word is Shoppach was the guy who spilled the beans. He's gone.

 

Shoppach didn't like Valentine because he complained V didn't play him enough. So he becomes a snitch? This is a screwed up team...

[SCM33]

Ultimately, as we all know, this season is on the players and they have admitted it.

 

The hiring of Bobby V was a huge mistake though. He's a dolt and he runs his mouth too much. There was a reason he was out of the major leagues for so long. Thanks Lucchino.

 

I love the Red Sox but it's almost more embarassing to be a Red Sox fan now than prior to 2004. Who would have thought that? I'm still watching all of the games, we all know how hard that's become.

 

This wasn't Bobby V's fault.

 

Lucchino, Beckett, Lackey, Salty, the Bard experiment, Papelbon, the offseason, the trade deadline, spring training, the public relations, the front office.........this extends well beyond a baseball manager, which is the most overrated coaching position in sports.

 

The worst part is.....instead of just fixing the problem last offseason, the problem has rooted itself right in the middle of our beloved franchise......these problems aren't going away with the certain firing of Bobby V.

 

There is no bridge year......this is what they have slowly become.

[SoxSport]

Great line from Carfaldo's front page story in the GLOBE this morning

 

"In regard to Lester being left in the July 22 game, Pedroia acknowledged that he had a problem with it and other players did as well, but he added,"Titio did it a few times a year and I let him hear about it. Stuff like that happens all the time."

 

I LET HIM HEAR ABOUT IT!!! I guess that's how we do things around here.

 

This kind of stuff is normal for every major league team. You only hear about it now because it's the Red Sox, and they have been embarrassingly bad since last September, and are under a microscope.

 

Making a soap opera out of a team's day to day activities is ridiculous. But the media never misses a chance to fill space in times of controversy.

[jung]

I think he was out of line confirming anything. The boss should be doing the confirming.

 

That assumes that JH, LL and BC did not get together and decide if and under what conditions they would confirm and I don't believe that for a minute. Even if they did not believe that this was as f***ed up as it is, they would have covered that base between the three of them. BC's confirmation was their confirmation. They confirmed because once the question was asked, meaning the media already had the story the three of them had no choice but to confirm or just get caught in a big lie. So they confirmed.

 

As for how the meeting got started. I don't believe JH's version for a minute for the reason I stated above. If JH called the meeting with topic to be a broad range of subjects aimed at improving the team not one single player misses that meeting. Only seventeen players attended because the other players did not want to attend a gripe session about V. I do believe that JH covered his ass and AGons ass by some brinksmanship in how he responded to Agons original communication but the intent was player's intent to gripe about V at least in my view. All of that crap from JH and Agons and Pedey today was just that....crap...********.

 

I also think it was all for naught anyway. V is gone at the end of this year and was gone at the end of this year before some NY meeting.