Is Buchholz an Ace?

[a700hitter]

He's not an ace. Period. He may not even be a good #2. He's had 3 horrendous months during the season. Even if we cut him slack for the first two months because he was coming back from an injury, there is no excuse for his very mediocre to bad last month. Plus the Yankees have absolutely lit him up with 8 HRs in 7 innings. That is grossly bad and frankly it is completely unacceptable.

 

As for Papelbon's successor, his ERA is right around 6 in 15 innings of work. Small sample size? 15 innings is about 1/3 of his usual work load. We need starting pitching and good bullpen arms.

[rjortiz]

I agree 100%. The Red Sox need two front line starters at the minimum.

[Station 13]

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/numlocation.php?pitchSel=453329&game=gid_2012_10_01_bosmlb_nyamlb_1/&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=

 

yeah no wonder he's giving up gopher ball one after another.

[Dojji]

I agree 100%. The Red Sox need two front line starters at the minimum.

 

You can repeat that all you want to, there's no way to get two front line starters this offseason so it doesn't matter anyway.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I figured this thread would get bumped. Potential but he lacks consistency.

[PagingDougGriffin]

An Ace? UH, NO !!! I must have been under the wronf impression that an ace or even a 2 or 3 would give you 30 + starts and 200 innings without tarpitting it up....But i guess i was wrong on that....I have since lumped Clay in with Jacoby...It is always going to be something...Acid Reflux, Back Spasms, Lat Strains, ETC.....At least with Manny and Pedro they would give you the name of the 10th grandmother that is ailing or something....

[Behindenemylines]

I'm a little down on him after last nights no show. Buchholtz is to inconsistent to be an ace. A Sox pitcher that can't be the $panks can not be their number one.

[jacksonianmarch]

Aces eat innings, stay healthy, are consistent, give your team a chance to win regularly, and rarely go through terrible stretches. Buchholz is more in the Brandon Morrow category. Unhittable when he is on, easily rattled, and perennially injured

[Palodios]

Not the best outing from Buch. I'm still very high on him for next year. He's reached an innings high this year and he looks worn down. Despite his inconsistencies, he has the potential to really dominate. Give him a new pitching coach, and a real catcher, and he'll be in good shape. That being said, I stand by my broken record-- the Red Sox need to go for a "potential ace" type guy like Peavy/Johnson/Lincecum to slot in at #1 in front of him.

[rjortiz]

You can repeat that all you want to, there's no way to get two front line starters this offseason so it doesn't matter anyway.

 

Isn't that the point of a discussion board? To discuss the Red Sox?

 

I don't see why it is out of the realm of possibility for them to sign Edwin Jackson and trade for Josh Johnson. That would be two good pitchers to add to the starting rotation. I'm not asking for Verlander and Hernandez.

[Bellhorn04]

The ace thing is overhyped. The A's and Orioles don't have an ace. The Rangers made it to the World Series twice in a row and should have won last year, without an ace.

[Station 13]

The ace thing is overhyped. The A's and Orioles don't have an ace. The Rangers made it to the World Series twice in a row and should have won last year, without an ace.

 

RELIABILITY: That's what you want out of Buchholz. He's been anything but.

[a700hitter]

The ace thing is overhyped. The A's and Orioles don't have an ace. The Rangers made it to the World Series twice in a row and should have won last year, without an ace.

As for the A's, you don't need an ace if all of your 6 starters have sub 4 ERAs with 4 of the 6 with ERAs under 3.5. Good luck building that. As for the Rangers, Matt Harrison pitched more than 200 innings and Darvish had 191 innings. Both had ERAs under 4 and their team won aq greater percentage of games that they started than games they didn't start. That fits my definition right there. The O's didn't need a single ace, because 3 of their 5 starters had ERA lower that 3.5 and 5 bullpen guys with sub 3 ERAs-- 4 of those 5 had ERAs under 2.5. That's a lot of good arms. It's easier to build around a big ace like Duke did with Pedro. What he has done in Baltimore is much more difficult.

[Bellhorn04]

As for the A's, you don't need an ace if all of your 6 starters have sub 4 ERAs with 4 of the 6 with ERAs under 3.5. Good luck building that. As for the Rangers, Matt Harrison pitched more than 200 innings and Darvish had 191 innings. Both had ERAs under 4 and their team won aq greater percentage of games that they started than games they didn't start. That fits my definition right there. The O's didn't need a single ace, because 3 of their 5 starters had ERA lower that 3.5 and 5 bullpen guys with sub 3 ERAs-- 4 of those 5 had ERAs under 2.5. That's a lot of good arms. It's easier to build around a big ace like Duke did with Pedro. What he has done in Baltimore is much more difficult.

 

Hey, having an ace would be great. The same way having another Manny/Ortiz combo would be great. But the fixation with having an ace is kind of silly IMO. Plenty of teams with Cy Young winners have missed the playoffs over the years.

 

An ace can add a few wins to your record, no question. So can adding a good #2 and a good #3. Aces have become pretty damn expensive.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You can repeat that all you want to, there's no way to get two front line starters this offseason so it doesn't matter anyway.

 

The Sox can't sign Dan Haren and trade for Lee or Lincecum??

 

They can easily get two front line starters. One via trade, one via FA.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dan Haren isnt an ace right now. Neither is Lincecum. And with the injury issues with Roy Halladay, I doubt they would deal Lee.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Dan Haren isnt an ace right now. Neither is Lincecum. And with the injury issues with Roy Halladay, I doubt they would deal Lee.

 

Nobody said he's an ace. I said he's a top of the rotation starter. He's certainly a #2. One bad season doesn't mean he's not an ace. Especially when, in his down season, he still posted a 4.33 ERA and, in his final 8 starts, really started to turn it around, posting a 2.81 ERA and a 41:5 K:BB.

 

Lincecum is in the same boat. Pitchers don't just suddenly fall off the map. He had a nice stretch in 2012 where he posted a 3.06 ERA over 13 games. His strikeouts are consistent with what they've been his entire career. His walks were up, and his HR/9 were up, but he's definitely a guy who will almost certainly rebound in 2013.

 

And as far as Lee goes, the Phillies are in a situation where they have GOT to have offense. They have $133mm tied up over 13 players, so they don't have a whole lot of money to go buy a good player. They are in a position where they need to deal from a position of strength to account for a position of weakness.

[jacksonianmarch]

A top of the rotation starter would be a #1 starter, ie an ace. Also, Haren is coming off a back injury and a loss of velocity. He could certainly regain that status, but he's far from certain. Now, I think he is a great idea for you guys, but counting on him to lead your rotation is probably not wise if you plan on winning the AL East next yr. If your plan is to build talent and place hold until 2014, then he is a wise decision, especially since you could get a draft pick for him if he signs a 1 yr deal.

 

I honestly think he'd be a great idea for NY. 1 yr deal, lots of incentives and if he returns to glory he is solid. If he doesnt, then we have the depth to eat the loss. I wouldnt count on him though

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm not counting on him to lead the rotation. I consider a "top of the rotation starter" to be a top of the rotation. Not the very top. The 1-2. That's what I was referring to when I said he could be a top of the rotation starter.

 

I think he's certainly able to be counted on as a #2. In his worst year, he still threw 177 innings and had a 4.33 ERA. By no means good, but certainly serviceable and will keep you in the games. The liklihood of him, Buch, and Lester all throwing like their 2012 counterparts again is extremely slim, too. I would expect at least 2 of them to be able to come out and throw the ball to around a 3.00-3.30 ERA.

[jacksonianmarch]

His bad yr this yr saw him average under 6IP per start and he was destroyed in a pretty light offensive division

[SoxFanForsyth]

His bad yr this yr saw him average under 6IP per start and he was destroyed in a pretty light offensive division

 

Rangers/A's/Angels/Mariners averaged a combined 4.49 runs per game.

 

Red Sox/Yankees/Rays/Jays/Orioles averaged a combined 4.52 runs per game.

 

It was almost an identical division in terms of offensive production.

[a700hitter]

His bad yr this yr saw him average under 6IP per start and he was destroyed in a pretty light offensive division

The AL West was the much tougher division this season. Head to head, they kicked the crap out of the AL East.

[jacksonianmarch]

The AL West was the much tougher division this season. Head to head, they kicked the crap out of the AL East.

 

That is true, but 2 of the 3 teams he faced in his division were offensively inept. 9 of his 30 starts were against Oakland and Seattle and he only faced Texas twice

[a700hitter]

That is true, but 2 of the 3 teams he faced in his division were offensively inept. 9 of his 30 starts were against Oakland and Seattle and he only faced Texas twice

Oakland led the league in runs scored after tha All Star break. They were killing it.

[SCM33]

Oakland led the league in runs scored after tha All Star break. They were killing it.

 

Sorry bud, I agree with you on a lot of things, but Oakland is an awful offensive team.

 

.238 TEAM batting average......238!!!!!!

.310 on base percentage.

.404 slugging.

.714 OPS.

 

They are awful.

 

Their starting pitching and bullpen got them to where they are.

[a700hitter]

Sorry bud, I agree with you on a lot of things, but Oakland is an awful offensive team.

 

.238 TEAM batting average......238!!!!!!

.310 on base percentage.

.404 slugging.

.714 OPS.

 

They are awful.

 

Their starting pitching and bullpen got them to where they are.

They don't pu the fear of god in a pitcher, but the facts are the facts. During the first half, the had the best pitching in the league. In the second half their pitching was 4th in the league. Their hitting was last in runs scored in the first half, but first in the second half. It was the offense that turned that team around in the second half. They were .500 in the first half with the best pitching and worst hitting. In the second half when they had the 4th best pitching and an offense that outscored everyone, they were 26 games over .500.

 

They had guys that could knock the ball out of the park. Reddick hit more than 30 HRs. Their first base platoon hit 37 HRs. Cespedes is a probably their most solid offensive player. I had to look twice at the numbers, because they were very surprising. Last to first in offense from the first half to the second half. That is astounding.

[jung]

Oakland may be a very scary post season team. If that rotation gets hot, they could knock anybody out of the post season holding the opponent scoreless for crazy innings totals. Plus if recent results are any indication they could well score enough runs to beat anybody.

 

They can win in that ballpark of theirs which is not easy. No team they will face in the post season will enjoy playing there...particularly teams like the Yankees. Yet Oakland also has a very good road record. I could easily see Oakland stoning the Yanks assuming they get past Detroit and the Yanks get past the O's.

[jacksonianmarch]

Oakland doesnt scare me at all. Outside of Parker, their rotation isnt anything special and outside of Parker and Milone only pitches well at Oakland. Their #3 starter is AJ Griffen who we have destroyed. They will not be able to hang in a best of 7 against us, unless their bats get white hot. The Tigers are my biggest fear.

[Bellhorn04]

Oakland doesnt scare me at all. Outside of Parker, their rotation isnt anything special and outside of Parker and Milone only pitches well at Oakland. Their #3 starter is AJ Griffen who we have destroyed. They will not be able to hang in a best of 7 against us, unless their bats get white hot. The Tigers are my biggest fear.

 

The A's are 57-26 in their last 83 games. You don't have to fear them but you should at least respect them. I think they will take down the Tigers.

[Behindenemylines]

How did a Buchholtz thread turn into a playoff thread. For next week I become an O's fan. If that doesn't work the following week I will be a Tiger or A's fan. $pankees s_ck!