4th of July — Fireworks show cancelled

[kapsis21]

We still have half the season left. Let's see where we're at after the skanks series.

 

agreed.

[FredLynn]

We can't get upset about letting Youk go.

 

It WAS TIME! WMB is at the door. Youk was not producing in the least. And even if WMB isn't the guy it could be Xander soon.

 

However, that's f***ing stupid that we got dog s*** for Youk. Even if his #s were down... he was like one of the top 5 players 2007-2010, or 11. so i mean... f***ing dumb. FO shoulda pushed better or just sat his ass.

 

Letting Youk go was the right move. So was letting Moss and Reddick and Crisp go.

However, signing Lackey and DiceK and Beckett and Lester and Jenks and Lackey and and and.....were blunders. It will take years to extricate our franchise from the useless flotsam Epstein left behind. And the longer it takes for us to accept the mess we are in and hire competent management to correct it, the longer it will take before we sniff another ring.

[FredLynn]

Maybe you have a point that something substantial needs to happen to really catch this FO's attention.

 

It seems many fans have lost trust in the organization's ability to assemble a cohesive, winning team after the past several seasons of talented yet unfulfilling squads. What makes this situation even more sickening is the organization has blamed everything under the sun (injuries, umpires, travel schedule, etc) but their own ineptitude for the team's failures.

 

I think its going to take something more convincing that a 42-40 team, or an 84-78 team. Its going to take a last place, maybe a fourth place team that threatens the income of the owners to force change. The fans have to vote with their feet. We can hurt Henry in the wallet if things get bad enough. Change is never easy. Until the fans FORCE Henry to fire LL and Cherington, thereby eliminating the old guard, nothing will be much different for many many years. This is Duquette all over again, only worse because the expectations are different.

The longer they wait to make that change the longer it will take for our team to become relevant again.

[jung]

I argued mainly with myself about Youk and the possibility of just keeping him because logically that made the most sense. Then in those last few days, Youk had that little snit about nobody talking to him about whether he would be in the lineup for a particular game that same day we had that report that his brother had tweeted from San Francisco that Chicago was a much better town than Boston and the fans were better etc. Frankly for me that was Youk warning the front office that he wanted out and would not be pleasant to be around if they did not get him out.

 

I keep saying that the amount of money available to players now has just warped everything all out of shape. Youk thinks he has a shot at a final contract and he is probably thinking that if Ortiz can land $14M for one year in arbitration he can land a contract for maybe $10M yer for a year, maybe $16M for two years but he was not going to make progress toward that sitting on our bench.

 

In addition you have to know that the Sox would have talked to Youk and gauged his tolerance for being kept around to play second fiddle to WMB. You cannot expect guys like Youk to sit back and let that kind of money just slip away without taking their shot.

 

This whole thing has gotten totally out of control and now that the genie is out of the bottle I don't see any way to get him back in. Teams want to use their assets as efficiently as they can and players want to milk the system for as much as they can and the amount of money being tossed around is off the hook.

 

Guys can have relatively long careers and still make the bulk of their money in the last 10-20% of their time in the bigs because of the escalating pay scales. Seems to me that in spite of everything they go up as much as 15-20% per year by position on average with the average pay bumping the arbitration numbers and the arbitration numbers bumping the pay scales back and forth.

 

Youk remained fine as long as the Sox were "working the phones" so to speak but I think the minute that effort slowed up or the Sox showed Youk that they were going to try to keep him, it all would have turned ugly.

[Bellhorn04]

Youk was taking up a spot on the 25 man roster. The only way to play him was to sit WMB or Gonzo or stick Gonzo in RF. When he did play he wasn't doing much. It was just a bad situation. They did do him a favor trading him to the White Sox. Let's hope Stewart can pitch, because Lillibridge is kind of a bad joke on fans who are already getting sick watching Punto.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Letting Youk go was the right move. So was letting Moss and Reddick and Crisp go.

However, signing Lackey and DiceK and Beckett and Lester and Jenks and Lackey and and and.....were blunders. It will take years to extricate our franchise from the useless flotsam Epstein left behind. And the longer it takes for us to accept the mess we are in and hire competent management to correct it, the longer it will take before we sniff another ring.

 

This is the thing I don't understand about everyone complaining. Dice-K was a mistake. Way too much money invested in a guy who had never pitched in MLB. But Lackey? Lackey had a great track record? He was one of the best free agent pitchers available that year. No one could have predicted that he'd suck like he did. How is that the FO's fault? If they signed Pujols this season and he sucked, would you blame it on them? How could anyone have reasonably expected bad years from Lackey, Beckett, or Lester based on past performance? And how exactly is signing Beckett and Lester a bad thing? What better pitchers were out there when they signed them? Beckett and Lester have been two of the top pitchers in the league for a few years.

[a700hitter]

Youk was taking up a spot on the 25 man roster. The only way to play him was to sit WMB or Gonzo or stick Gonzo in RF. When he did play he wasn't doing much. It was just a bad situation. They did do him a favor trading him to the White Sox. Let's hope Stewart can pitch' date=' because Lillibridge is kind of a bad joke on fans who are already getting sick watching Punto.[/quote']Youk didn't have to play. He'd lost the starting spot, but he was good insurance. Yes, they did him a favor by trading him, but is that how to run a business? I don't think an organization owes a player any favors beyond the very large paycheck which he wasn't earning. We are still paying the guy, but we are forced to watch Mauro Gomez -- a minor league first baseman play third base or Punto. Youk would have been a nice guy to have on the bench. He's not blocking anyone's path on the bench, except Punto's or Gomez's. They didn't owe him any favors. I am not happy watching Punto and Gomez while knowing that they are paying Youkilis.

[FredLynn]

This is the thing I don't understand about everyone complaining. Dice-K was a mistake. Way too much money invested in a guy who had never pitched in MLB. But Lackey? Lackey had a great track record? He was one of the best free agent pitchers available that year. No one could have predicted that he'd suck like he did. How is that the FO's fault? If they signed Pujols this season and he sucked' date=' would you blame it on them? How could anyone have reasonably expected bad years from Lackey, Beckett, or Lester based on past performance? And how exactly is signing Beckett and Lester a bad thing? What better pitchers were out there when they signed them? Beckett and Lester have been two of the top pitchers in the league for a few years.[/quote']

 

Youk, its not our job to judge talent on this team. I do my job, hopefully well, and I would hope that the FO would do theirs. The warning signs about Lackey were there: his career ERA at Fenway was high, and he is a "pitch to contact" kind of pitcher than has trouble with the LF wall. In Anaheim that kind of a pitcher has fewer problems because of the dimensions of the park. Plus, he is way overpaid, as is Beckett. That hamstrings the franchise in terms of going after other players who might help the club. Signing those three pitchers was not a bad idea, but not for the money they are being paid or the length of their contract. I think that the major fault of the Epstein regime here is the lack of ability to accurately judge talent, particularly pitching talent. And that IS their job....not yours, not mine....THEIRS.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lackey had the warning signs that a few posters actually pointed out. Dropping FB velocity, dropping K rate, low BABIP and a poor record vs the AL East. He was due to correct. I think that correction was to the 2010 level of Lackey, not the 2011 suckfest/injury plagued yr he had. I think Lackey will come back and be serviceable, but he's being paid at ace level.

 

That's the problem on the sox side is that guys are being paid at ace and mvp levels and producing like mediocre players or less. The Yankees have that as well, although to a little bit of a better level. All it takes is for these players to play to another level, not to their career norms, but to a little better than what they are doing to become successful again.

[Klare]

I agree that we can make the playoffs this season with Carl Crawford and Jacoby Ellsbury back in the lineup. There are still a lot of games to play, we're not even halfway yet. Hope no more bad injurys like we had so far.

[kapsis21]

Youk was taking up a spot on the 25 man roster. The only way to play him was to sit WMB or Gonzo or stick Gonzo in RF. When he did play he wasn't doing much. It was just a bad situation. They did do him a favor trading him to the White Sox. Let's hope Stewart can pitch' date=' because Lillibridge is kind of a bad joke on fans who are already getting sick watching Punto.[/quote']

 

we actually won some games with Gonzo in RF .. i liked that lineup.