Dan Duquette...and his reign here as GM

[a700hitter]

Less than nothing about baseball? Aren't you the guy who was BEGGING management to sign Carl Crawford (over Jayson Werth)' date=' and made inflammatory posts to anyone who disagreed? And then once it was done strutted around talksox antagonizing [i']other Red Sox fans[/i] who were against the idea about it? How's that working out for you?

 

It's not my fault that the OP is over-sensitive and perceives attacks on his threads as attacks on him.

 

 

 

Are you s***ing me? That team had nowhere to go but down. Their feeble repeated attempts at getting back to contention the past several years only delayed the inevitable and left the team in purgatory. Theo's doing the right thing.

 

I don't have much experience with Cubs fans, but I doubt they feel half as entitled as you people do. Nobody's gonna flip s*** if they're not contenders in 2013. Because they realize that rebuilding takes time, and championships aren't easy to get, and you can't just slap a stale product together and expect it to go anywhere.

What are youiv all bent out of shape about. I didn't even mention you in my post.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

So you're not gonna rebut anything I said regarding Theo and the Cubs (you sure as hell have nothing to say to the first part of the post), just do what you constantly accuse me of? Awesome.

[iortiz]

Less than nothing about baseball? Aren't you the guy who was BEGGING management to sign Carl Crawford (over Jayson Werth)' date=' and made inflammatory posts to anyone who disagreed? And then once it was done strutted around talksox antagonizing [i']other Red Sox fans[/i] who were against the idea about it? How's that working out for you?

 

It's not my fault that the OP is over-sensitive and perceives attacks on his threads as attacks on him.

 

 

 

Are you s***ing me? That team had nowhere to go but down. Their feeble repeated attempts at getting back to contention the past several years only delayed the inevitable and left the team in purgatory. Theo's doing the right thing.

 

I don't have much experience with Cubs fans, but I doubt they feel half as entitled as you people do. Nobody's gonna flip s*** if they're not contenders in 2013. Because they realize that rebuilding takes time, and championships aren't easy to get, and you can't just slap a stale product together and expect it to go anywhere.

 

This is not about what you wanted or I wanted or A700 wanted. If CC or A-Gon or whoever player doesn't perform, this is FO's fault; Not me, not you, not any fan... and still as a fan I will point to the FO and the player if this player doesn't perform as expected. As simple as that. This is what it is.

 

GMs are very well paid in order to do their job. They take credit or blame.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

This is not about what you wanted or I wanted or A700 wanted. If CC or A-Gon or whoever player doesn't perform, this is FO's fault; Not me, not you, not any fan... and still as a fan I will point to the FO and the player if this player doesn't perform as expected. As simple as that. This is what it is.

 

GMs are very well paid in order to do their job. They take credit or blame.

Who ever said otherwise?

[a700hitter]

This is not about what you wanted or I wanted or A700 wanted. If CC or A-Gon or whoever player doesn't perform, this is FO's fault; Not me, not you, not any fan... and still as a fan I will point to the FO and the player if this player doesn't perform as expected. As simple as that. This is what it is.

 

GMs are very well paid in order to do their job. They take credit or blame.

... And I'd still rather have Crawford than Werth. If I had known that either acquisition would have forced the Red Sox into austerity mode, I would have passed on both of them. The FO didn't pass and now they are running an austerity budget. That's their fault.

[iortiz]

Who ever said otherwise?

well, you said "Aren't you the guy who was BEGGING management to sign Carl Crawford (over Jayson Werth), and made inflammatory posts to anyone who disagreed? ...."

 

If CC shits the bed (already did) , Still A700 can complain and point to the player and the FO, even if he wanted him in that offseason...

[iortiz]

... And I'd still rather have Crawford than Werth. If I had known that either acquisition would have forced the Red Sox into austerity mode' date=' I would have passed on both of them. The FO didn't pass and now they are running an austerity budget. That's their fault.[/quote']

 

Totally agree.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

well, you said "Aren't you the guy who was BEGGING management to sign Carl Crawford (over Jayson Werth), and made inflammatory posts to anyone who disagreed? ...."

 

If CC shits the bed (already did) , Still A700 can complain and point to the player and the FO, even if he wanted him in that offseason...

 

That doesn't imply fault, that implies that a700 was a damn fool for wanting to sign Crawford and evidently lacking the foresight to see that the team's constant spending would have consequences at some point. Of course the fault lies with management for being just as greedy and short-sighted.

 

This is also the same guy who wanted to trade Jon Lester for Dontrelle Willis in 06. Where he gets the nerve to insult mine and others' baseball knowledge while constantly drumming up his own is anybody's guess.

[a700hitter]

So you're not gonna rebut anything I said regarding Theo and the Cubs (you sure as hell have nothing to say to the first part of the post)' date=' just do what you constantly accuse me of? Awesome.[/quote']Does my dismissive treatment bother you?

 

Here's my response to your venomous rant. You are wrong about the first part. And I don't even know what point you are trying to make about the Cubs or how that is responsive to anything I posted.

 

Also, you throw around this term "entitlement" as an insult, but it is a little ridiculous to refer to fans who have seen 2 world championships in 30, 40 and in some cases 50 years of fandom as "entitled". Entitled to what? Not winning championships? Getting bludgeoned by the Yankees? Paying ridiculously high ticket prices?

[iortiz]

That doesn't imply fault' date=' that implies that a700 was a [b']damn fool[/b] for wanting to sign Crawford and evidently lacking the foresight to see that the team's constant spending would have consequences at some point. Of course the fault lies with management for being just as greedy and short-sighted.

 

This is also the same guy who wanted to trade Jon Lester for Dontrelle Willis in 06. Where he gets the nerve to insult mine and others' baseball knowledge while constantly drumming up his own is anybody's guess.

damn fool? nahhhh..... Carl Crawford was a very good player before his arrival. Thing is he has not shown goddamn thing here... the only one who charges the blame is Theo or whoever brought him (still years ahead, though). Not me. Not you, and certainly not A700.

 

In the end we are only fans, buddy.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Does my dismissive treatment bother you?

 

Not at all.

 

Here's my response to your venomous rant. You are wrong about the first part. And I don't even know what point you are trying to make about the Cubs or how that is responsive to anything I posted.

 

You're acting like Cubs fans would have legitimate reason to be antsy if the team isn't contenders by 2013, despite the full rebuild in progress. Making contention in 2013 happen would require abandoning the plan and shifting to a series of 'quick-fix' moves, the same kind of moves that have relegated that franchise to middle-lower echelon status for god knows how long, and are now coming back to haunt the Red Sox. How is that hard to comprehend?

 

Also, you throw around this term "entitlement" as an insult, but it is a little ridiculous to refer to fans who have seen 2 world championships in 30, 40 and in some cases 50 years of fandom as "entitled". Entitled to what? Not winning championships? Getting bludgeoned by the Yankees? Paying ridiculously high ticket prices?

 

No, you act like getting an elite Red Sox team to watch on a yearly basis is a birthright, and that down years are unacceptable. And you're incredibly vocal about it. That makes you and like-minded people insufferable jackasses.

 

I can respect the great effort you're putting into twisting my words around, but try to be a little less obvious with it.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

damn fool? nahhhh..... Carl Crawford was a very good player before his arrival. Thing is he has not shown goddamn thing here... the only one who charges the blame is Theo or whoever brought him (still years ahead' date=' though). Not me. Not you, and certainly not A700.[/quote']

 

Yes, he is a fool. Several people here were against the Crawford signing, myself included. Because we knew it wasn't worth it. We may not have expected him to s*** the bed this badly but don't act like nobody could have foreseen that this would turn out to be a bad move, not a good one. That's just ignorant.

 

And yet again, no one's arguing about who gets the blame.

[iortiz]

Yes, he is a fool. Several people here were against the Crawford signing, myself included. Because we knew it wasn't worth it. We may not have expected him to s*** the bed this badly but don't act like nobody could have foreseen that this would turn out to be a bad move, not a good one. That's just ignorant.

 

And yet again, no one's arguing about who gets the blame.

 

Let me understand this... were you against CC signing because the money or because the player's numbers?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Let me understand this... were you against CC signing because the money or because the player's numbers?

Yeah, his stats. Good, but not top dollar good. There were other reasons thrown around too which escape me at the moment.

[a700hitter]

That doesn't imply fault, that implies that a700 was a damn fool for wanting to sign Crawford and evidently lacking the foresight to see that the team's constant spending would have consequences at some point. Of course the fault lies with management for being just as greedy and short-sighted.

 

This is also the same guy who wanted to trade Jon Lester for Dontrelle Willis in 06. Where he gets the nerve to insult mine and others' baseball knowledge while constantly drumming up his own is anybody's guess.

I also was opposed to trading Manny to the Mets for Lastings Milledge, Aaron Heilman, and some other less notable guy. That was an offer from Theo that the Mets declined. That trade would have wrecked the 2007 season. Of course, Theo did make plenty of bad trades and acquisitions to make up for not pulling off that trade. He made more bad moves than I have discussed here. It's not even close.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Okay?

[iortiz]

Yeah' date=' his stats. [b']Good, but not top dollar good.[/b] There were other reasons thrown around too which escape me at the moment.

 

When you say this, I guess, it was the contract; anyway... Nobody can argue that he was not a very good player before his arrival. Again, fooled? nahhh... at the time, I bet every single baseball organization would have liked a player like CC in its roster... thing was the money and that responsibility my friend, goes directly to FO's belt.

[a700hitter]

Yes, he is a fool. Several people here were against the Crawford signing, myself included. Because we knew it wasn't worth it. We may not have expected him to s*** the bed this badly but don't act like nobody could have foreseen that this would turn out to be a bad move, not a good one. That's just ignorant.

 

And yet again, no one's arguing about who gets the blame.

I get it. As a fan, I am a fool because I wanted the Red Sox to obtain an All Star quality player who always killed the Sox, but Theo is a genius for overpaying him and financially crippling the team. That makes a lot of sense.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I get it. As a fan, I am a fool because I wanted the Red Sox to obtain an All Star quality player who always killed the Sox, but Theo is a genius for overpaying him and financially crippling the team. That makes a lot of sense.

Keep twisting those words and throwing up strawmen, pops. We all know it's the only way you can ever front anything approaching a real argument.

 

iortiz, I'm not debating who gets the blame for what. Why do you keep bringing that up? Cut the s*** with the strawmen, both of you.

[a700hitter]

Keep twisting those words and throwing up strawmen, pops. We all know it's the only way you can ever front anything approaching a real argument.

 

iortiz, I'm not debating who gets the blame for what. Why do you keep bringing that up? Cut the s*** with the strawmen, both of you.

What strawman? You said that I know nothing because I wanted the Red Sox to get Carl Crawford, but yet you argue in this thread about how much credit Theo deserves and he signed the guy, overpaid him by $16-24 million over the next closest offer and he financially crippled his team with his spending with full knowledge of their finances-- something that fans are not privy to. If I am a fool for wanting Crawford, Theo must be a jackass deluxe for executing the move with full knowledge of all the facts.:dunno: No strawman, just deductive reasoning. Right , troll?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

What strawman? You said that I know nothing because I wanted the Red Sox to get Carl Crawford' date=' but yet you argue in this thread about how much credit Theo deserves and he signed the guy, overpaid him by $16-24 million over the next closest offer and he financially crippled his team with his spending with full knowledge of their finances-- something that fans are not privy to. If I am a fool for wanting Crawford, Theo must be a jackass deluxe for executing the move with full knowledge of all the facts.:dunno: No strawman, just deductive reasoning. Right , troll?[/quote']

 

What the f*** are you talking about?

 

This thread was created regarding 2004 and who built that team. The clear-cut answer is Theo Epstein.

 

I've said multiple times in here that Theo and management are culpable for the Carl Crawford debacle, and I brought him up here to show how you questioning someone else's baseball knowledge is hysterical.

 

How those two are related I have no f***ing idea. Is combining two takes on completely unrelated matters seriously the best you can do? Step your game up, pops.

 

And if you're really this oblivious as to what a spoiled, entitled jackass you and the others sound like in regards to this team these days, I don't know what to tell you. We all want the team to do good. You and the others are acting like a good baseball team to watch is your birthright, and that down years (read: winning record with no playoff berth) are a breach of that right. Hell you've even threatened to stop going to games, which is hilarious in it's own right, because you think that you're any more important to management/ownership than the seagulls crapping on John Henry's yacht. What makes it even funnier is you and others questioning my personal/social life when it's clear that you cannot function properly if this f***ing baseball team isn't performing up to your expectations.

 

So you respond to my post about you twisting words by twisting more words. You might want to study the definition of 'deductive reasoning' a bit more carefully.

[a700hitter]

What the f*** are you talking about?

 

This thread was created regarding 2004 and who built that team. The clear-cut answer is Theo Epstein.

 

I've said multiple times in here that Theo and management are culpable for the Carl Crawford debacle, and I brought him up here to show how you questioning someone else's baseball knowledge is hysterical.

 

How those two are related I have no f***ing idea. Is combining two takes on completely unrelated matters seriously the best you can do? Step your game up, pops.

 

And if you're really this oblivious as to what a spoiled, entitled jackass you and the others sound like in regards to this team these days, I don't know what to tell you. We all want the team to do good. You and the others are acting like a good baseball team to watch is your birthright, and that down years (read: winning record with no playoff berth) are a breach of that right. Hell you've even threatened to stop going to games, which is hilarious in it's own right, because you think that you're any more important to management/ownership than the seagulls crapping on John Henry's yacht. What makes it even funnier is you and others questioning my personal/social life when it's clear that you cannot function properly if this f***ing baseball team isn't performing up to your expectations.

 

So you respond to my post about you twisting words by twisting more words. You might want to study the definition of 'deductive reasoning' a bit more carefully.

Yep, yep. Keep on ranting. :rant:

[Emmz]

As much as I hate to admit it, J_E's right. Lots of straw around here.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You're from Minnesota, you would know your straw.

[a700hitter]

As much as I hate to admit it' date=' J_E's right. Lots of straw around here.[/quote']Trolls love straw. Don't know why he is so mad.

 

Still no strawman though. If I am a fool for rooting to get Crawford, what does that make Epstein who consummated the deal and impoverished his team in the process.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You must have missed Epstein's whole 'there was pressure on the front office to make some kind of move' interview.

 

But keep arguing semantics.

[Palodios]

In the big picture, it wasn't just about Crawford. Some of the moves he made seemed like good ones at the time. But Jenks? If it wasn't for him, they could have kept Scutaro.

[a700hitter]

You must have missed Epstein's whole 'there was pressure on the front office to make some kind of move' interview.

Whiny f***. Now, I know why you like him.

[kapsis21]

In the big picture' date=' it wasn't just about Crawford. Some of the moves he made seemed like good ones at the time. But Jenks? If it wasn't for him, they could have kept Scutaro.[/quote']

 

Scutaro/Helton combined errors lost the game against Phillies tonight.. i really dont care about Scutaro why are you guys so gung ho about him..

he was mediocre and Aviles is doing perfectly fine.

[Bellhorn04]

Scutaro/Helton combined errors lost the game against Phillies tonight.. i really dont care about Scutaro why are you guys so gung ho about him..

he was mediocre and Aviles is doing perfectly fine.

 

You have to keep up here man...the argument for keeping Scutaro is now an option play...if he wouldn't have been better than Aviles, he most certainly would have been a better utility guy than Punto.