If the sox blew it up thread

[jacksonianmarch]

I know, I know, Yankee fan here on a sox board talking about blowing it all up. This isnt actually a thread telling you that the sox should blow it up. This is a thread about who the sox should jettison and what they should get IF they decided to blow it up. And obviously, let's keep this somewhat realistic. You arent getting Josh Hamilton for Daniel Nava and Jose Iglesias. And you have to also operate under the caveat that Crawford and AdGon are not dealable, you're stuck with them.

 

To start, lets look at the offense

 

Catcher- Jarrod Saltalamacchia- A catcher who is having a career yr in the power department. His average suffers and his defense sucks, but so be it. He's young, under command for another few seasons and seems to be improving upon his career yr last season

 

Potential Replacement- Ryan Lavarnway- a 25 yr old C with big power who also is a defensive liability and has taken a step back this season in his minor league performance.

 

First Base- Adrian Gonzalez- don't even bother, he's your 1b for years to come

 

Second Base- if the sox trade Pedroia, there might be a bonfire on Landsdown street with a lot of green turning into soot.

 

Shortstop- Mike Aviles- A shortstop with okay range, a good arm and stone hands who can drive in runs but cannot do much else. He's under control for a few more yrs but really isnt all that great

 

Potential Replacement- Jose Iglesias- an all glove no bat SS who is injured in AAA. He's the future at the position

 

Third Base- Will Middlebrooks- the guy can hit, plays good enough defense and has proven to be rather athletic. He is going to outdo Youkilis this season

 

Left Field Carl Crawford- He's hurt, coming off his worst season, and looked slow at the dish and on the basepaths compared to prior. You can question his signing till the cows come home, but he's your LFer, so leave it at that

 

Centerfield Jacoby Ellsbury- He's made of glass, but when the glass stays intact, he is an elite level performer. His deal expires after 2013, so the sox might look to cash in on him

 

Right Field Cody Ross- righty outfielder capable of mashing lefties and has a flair for the dramatic. He's slightly above replacement value on his career, but had been good for the sox prior to breaking his foot

 

Potential Replacement Ryan Kalish- the kid has come back from some serious injuries and has dominated AAA enough to be back in the bigs. The kid is the future in RF

 

DH David Ortiz- absolutely mashing, but on a 1 yr deal, he's a great trade chip

 

Detritus-

Kevin Youkilis. He's trash right now and doesnt have a spot on the sox in the future

 

Darnell McDonald- the guy sucks, lets be honest

 

Scott Podsednik- the guy has had a hot start, but he isnt a big league caliber regular anymore. And his defensive problems make him a poor play in CF and RF. He'll be a goner by season's end

 

Mish-Mash

Daniel Nava- career minor leaguer who has a good approach, but lacks the skills to be an every day player in a big market.

 

Ryan Sweeney- also made of glass and better suited to be a 4th OFer than a starter

 

Where to blow it up

 

So, if you are gonna blow this up, and I am NOT saying you have to, but if you really wanted to just scrap it and start over with the pieces you are stuck with, how do you go from here?

 

Trade Saltalamacchia- If you decide to deal Salty, you do it either with the hope of acquiring another big time catching prospect or the knowledge that Lavs is good enough to man the plate full time in the bigs. I actually have a feeling you deal Salty for another catching prospect. And the deal to make is a trade to Cincinnatti. Cincy has a top catching prospect currently sucking balls in Devin Mesoraco, and their team is in first place mostly based on the unilateral bashing of Joey Votto. Salty's power intrigue in their park would make him an enticing trade piece for the kid who hasnt delivered on his promise to this point. The good part about Mesoraco is that he projects to remain a catcher long term, even if the bat doesnt reach the heights it is expected to reach. I'd also think that'd be enough to do 1 for 1. What it also does is allow Mesoraco one more full season at AAA, which is what he needs to get his bat moving. This then allows you the rest of the yr to see how Lavarnway responds to being in the big leagues

 

Trade David Ortiz- You'd be surprised how little a full time DH will offer you, but David did show enough in his interleague performance to warrant some NL interest especially when you look at what his offense gives you. The perfect fit for Ortiz is within the AL East either in Tampa or Baltimore. I think a desperate O's franchise would jump at an offer that doesnt involve Machado or Bundy (the younger). I do think they could work out a deal centered around Jon Schoop, a 20 yr old infielder currently struggling a bit at AA, but raked last yr in A and A+ ball. The O's would have to give more, maybe Bundy's older brother or Dan Klein, a pitcher with big upside but some shoulder troubles. He could also be in play for the Rays, although I dont think the Rays would be willing to see one of their better prospects reach the bigs in Boston.

 

Trade Ross- I think the sox can get some value out of Sweeney, especially if he continues to hit in the .800+OPS range with good power. There is a serious lack of power in the bigs these days, and a guy with his playoff chops and season could bring back a deal a la Xavier Nady when the Yankees dealt Tabata to the Pirates.

 

DFA Youkilis and Punto- This isnt brain surgery, just let them go

 

Demote Aviles to backup IF

 

Promote Iglesias when healthy to SS

 

Pending- I think Jacoby Ellsbury would have been a humongous trade chip, especially if the sox go the retool route. Unfortunately, his injury makes him less likely to be dealt with his value low. We can retry this theory in the offseason

 

That's the offensive side, I'll look at the pitching side in a bit

[jacksonianmarch]

Starting Staff

 

1. Josh Beckett- signed on through 2014, Beckett is probably the most interesting trade chip on the sox. The problem is, he is also on the DL. Let's say for a moment, that he is only on the DL for 15 days and comes back throwing well. If you can hang your hat on his ace potential and ace like performance aside from 2 horrible outings this season, then he should net you a fair amount. But his contract, his fragility and his attitude leave a lot to be desired. If you were blowing it up, part of it has to be getting rid of the ******* malcontents and he'd be one I'd move. The other interesting thing is that there are a few good teams out there looking for pitching and if Beckett was motivated, he could lead them into the postseason. And to a certain team, you could package Beckett and Ortiz and probably get something big in return. That team is the Pittsburgh Pirates, and the player in return is Jameson Taillon. The #2 pick from the 2010 draft has hit some speed bumps in the minors, but he possesses knockout stuff and good peripherals in the FSL as a 20 yr old. A deal centered around Taillon would certainly be enough for the sox to move on from Beckett while allowing the sox to take some secondary prospects from the Buccos for Ortiz as well.

 

Jon Lester- talk about an enigma. His stuff is still sharp, but the once stricken happy go lucky kid has turned into a bitching, egomaniac who would probably do very well with a change of scenery. He has been warped by Beckett's mood and a breakup for them both might be best for the team. He's signed for a couple more seasons on a team friendly deal, and he is young and close enough to his recent streaks of dominance to bring a good haul back. I think a good move of Lester is to the DBacks for hot shot rookie Trevor Bauer. The DBacks get a guy with a proven track record and ace stuff who could use some time away from the Boston media scrutiny. The sox would get back a guy with ace potential who is in AAA and ready to produce. The Backs would have to move a few more players, but that would work for both teams, IMO.

 

Clay Buchholz- I think Clay has shown that he knows how to pitch and is showing the stuff that led him to be the ERA champ a couple seasons ago. If you rid the clubhouse of the malcontents, then this kid becomes the ace and can actually stop being a follower and see if he can be a leader. He then takes over your revamped rotation as your ace

 

Felix Doubront- Doubie becomes your #2 and you dont deal him unless you think this season in an aberration. For a rookie, he seems to be very knowledgable of the game and has the stuff to stick

 

DiceK Dice would stay in the rotation long enough to see if he is worth anything to you. If he sucks, he gets DFA'd, if he doesnt, you deal him for something of use in the future. Too early to tell, but by July, you might have an idea

 

Bard- You have to see if he can regain his form. If he doesnt, he's useless. If he does, he's a shutdown reliever.

 

Aceves- Aceves must be kept. He is the glue to that pen and something I said about him in 2009 when he was a Yankee. Keep him, if the rotation is thin in 2013, he can step in, if not, he can fill any role in the pen.

 

Bailey- I'd play hot potato with this kid. As soon as he shows he is healthy, I'd move him. He is an elite talent, but cannot stay on the field. Get what you can for him and hope you can rape someone as well as you were when Reddick was moved to Oak.

[jacksonianmarch]

This would leave you with a lineup as such for 2013:

 

1. Ellsbury- CF

2. Crawford- LF

3. Pedroia- 2B

4. Gonzalez- 1B

5. Middlebrooks- 3B

6. Kalish- RF

7. Lavarnway- DH

8. Mesoraco- C

9. Iglesias- SS

 

Staff

1. Buchholz

2. Doubront

3. Bauer

4. Lackey

5. ???

 

You'd probably start 2013 with Barnes in AAA and Taillon in AA while also saving $25 million or so of cap space to chase after Cole Hamels in free agency. That'd be a way to get younger, more interesting, more defensively sound and also show more consistency. They may not be a 95 win team, but you'd see progress day to day

[redsoxfan3]

This would leave you with a lineup as such for 2013:

 

1. Ellsbury- CF

2. Crawford- LF

3. Pedroia- 2B

4. Gonzalez- 1B

5. Middlebrooks- 3B

6. Kalish- RF

7. Lavarnway- DH

8. Mesoraco- C

9. Iglesias- SS

 

Staff

1. Buchholz

2. Doubront

3. Bauer

4. Lackey

5. ???

 

You'd probably start 2013 with Barnes in AAA and Taillon in AA while also saving $25 million or so of cap space to chase after Cole Hamels in free agency. That'd be a way to get younger, more interesting, more defensively sound and also show more consistency. They may not be a 95 win team, but you'd see progress day to day

 

This is a good thread and interesting to look at. If the team were to blow up, it would be interesting. I think Iglesias will be our starting SS next year. I also think that Salty will stick around and will split time with Lavarnway (that could all depend on what happens with Big Papi and the development of Lavarnway. I think Big Papi will still be our DH. I see him retiring as a member of the Boston Red Sox. I guess I am trying to say that I realistically see this team trying to mold a lineup out of the players on the current roster and out of players in AAA (Lavarnway and Iglesias). I could see us trying to trade Salty or Ellsbury this year. I don't think they will want to trade Ortiz. They will obviously try to trade Youk this year, but he is gone after this year no matter what. I do not see them picking up his option at $13 million.

 

I think Lester sticks as well. I think we need to try to build our rotation around Lester, Buchholz, and Doubront. Lester hasn't had a great year, but the front office loves him and I think that they will not want to part ways with him. Beckett is the guy that is questionable. I hope Lackey goes. I kind of want Beckett to stay, but if he is a cancer in the clubhouse, then goodbye Mr. Beckett. The real question is, do we keep Lackey and hope that he can get things back together or do we try to trade him and hope that a team will hope he has something still left in the tank? If he is in Boston, they are going to start him and give him a chance. If they trade him, they have to probably eat a lot of his contract, which might be worth it so we do not have any more Lackaches. As of right now, with the circumstances that we given, this is how I see the lineup:

 

Ellsbury- CF

Pedroia- 2B

Gonzalez- 1B

Ortiz- DH

Middlebrooks- 3B

Crawford- LF

Kalish - RF

Lavarnway- C

Iglesias- SS

 

Bench- Punto/Aviles (Uti. IF), Ross (4th OF/platoon role with Kalish), Sweeney (5th OF), Salty (C/platoon role with Lavarnway)

 

This depends on a lot of different factors. Punto is under contract next year. Will Aviles want out of Boston if he cannot start? I do not see room for both Punto and Aviles on this team next year. Will Ross and Sweeney want to stick around as backups? I think Sweeney would be more content in that role. Ross might not be big on wanting to be a 4th OF. What will happen with Salty? Will Lavarnway progress enough to be our starting C? There are a lot of questions, but I think this could be the best lineup for the Red Sox come opening day with all things considered.

[wyo-sox]

I do think negative attitudes spread like wildfire, and they are very detrimental. So first off I would trade anyone that is a prime contributor to bitchy, negative, unprofessional, immature, and selfish attitudes. So without knowing where this is coming from I will mention a few I would not want to see go.

 

I would like to see Papi retire as a Red Sox.

I hate to think of Dustin not part of the club.

 

Sweeney, Aviles, Salty, Middlebrooks, Dubront and Salty are few off the top of my head that seem to play really hard, have good attitudes and could produce well for several years pretty inexpensively.

 

Pretty much anyone else can go. And I think with Bobby V at the helm you get young hungry players that might still want to learn something- I don't think Vs personality matches up great with head case super stars. I mean look at how many no name or new name pieces have contributed well this year..... mean while the "superstars" have been over all flat.

 

These are just thoughts off the top of my head.

[kapsis21]

I do think negative attitudes spread like wildfire, and they are very detrimental. So first off I would trade anyone that is a prime contributor to bitchy, negative, unprofessional, immature, and selfish attitudes. So without knowing where this is coming from I will mention a few I would not want to see go.

 

I would like to see Papi retire as a Red Sox.

I hate to think of Dustin not part of the club.

 

Sweeney, Aviles, Salty, Middlebrooks, Dubront and Salty are few off the top of my head that seem to play really hard, have good attitudes and could produce well for several years pretty inexpensively.

 

Pretty much anyone else can go. And I think with Bobby V at the helm you get young hungry players that might still want to learn something- I don't think Vs personality matches up great with head case super stars. I mean look at how many no name or new name pieces have contributed well this year..... mean while the "superstars" have been over all flat.

 

These are just thoughts off the top of my head.

 

awesome points, +1:thumbsup:

[Youk Of The Nation]

No way they DFA Youk. They may trade him for what essentially will amount to trash, but no way they just get rid of him without getting something, anything, in return.

[Spitball]

Trade Saltalamacchia- If you decide to deal Salty, you do it either with the hope of acquiring another big time catching prospect or the knowledge that Lavs is good enough to man the plate full time in the bigs. I actually have a feeling you deal Salty for another catching prospect. And the deal to make is a trade to Cincinnatti. Cincy has a top catching prospect currently sucking balls in Devin Mesoraco, and their team is in first place mostly based on the unilateral bashing of Joey Votto. Salty's power intrigue in their park would make him an enticing trade piece for the kid who hasnt delivered on his promise to this point. The good part about Mesoraco is that he projects to remain a catcher long term, even if the bat doesnt reach the heights it is expected to reach. I'd also think that'd be enough to do 1 for 1. What it also does is allow Mesoraco one more full season at AAA, which is what he needs to get his bat moving. This then allows you the rest of the yr to see how Lavarnway responds to being in the big leagues

 

There is no way Cincinnati trades Mesoraco for Saltalamacchia. No way.

 

First of all, no one in Cincinnati is unhappy with the kid. He is a former number one pick and the reason they traded another former number one pick Yasmani Grandal this winter and let Ramon Hernandez walk. He starts and catches when Homer Bailey or Mike Leake is pitching. Mesoraco is their catcher of the future but is being broken in slowly.

 

Second, their GM is Walt Jocketty and he places a premium on defense at the catching position. He has always drafted and employed defensive specialists at catcher. In St. Louis it was always a Pagnozzi, Metheny, Molina type. The Reds' current starter, Ryan Hanigan, is a defensive specialist (with good on base skills). Mesoraco was voted the best defensive catcher in the International League

 

Cincinnati is probably one of the last destinations for Salty. They are in first place with Hanigan and Mesoraco providing their pitchers with excellent defense. I can not see them deviating from that.

[AGomREDSOX15]

No way they break the team up , there 7.5 out of 1st place and only 4 games back from the 2nd wildcard and they haven't been completly healthy yet and Gonzalez is due to heat up preferably 2nd half there still 100 games to be played anything can happen. Redsox will contend they will push for a playoff spot this team is to talented and crawford will be much better this yr and cause havoc on the bases once he hits Leadoff something tito didn't know that he can't do much hitting behind Ortiz . Who cares if he's not hitting he was payed big bucks leave em there .

 

Redsox must

 

DFA:YOUK HE SUCKS OR TRADE IF

THEY CAN EVEN GET ANYTHING

 

BARD BACK TO BULLPEN f*** THAT SP EXPERIENCE MAKE EM THE CLOSER WHERE HE WILL GO BACK TO THROWING CHEESE

 

USE LAVERNWAY AS A TRADE CHIP AND GET GARZA

[redsoxfan3]

No way they break the team up , there 7.5 out of 1st place and only 4 games back from the 2nd wildcard and they haven't been completly healthy yet and Gonzalez is due to heat up preferably 2nd half there still 100 games to be played anything can happen. Redsox will contend they will push for a playoff spot this team is to talented and crawford will be much better this yr and cause havoc on the bases once he hits Leadoff something tito didn't know that he can't do much hitting behind Ortiz . Who cares if he's not hitting he was payed big bucks leave em there .

 

Redsox must

 

DFA:YOUK HE SUCKS OR TRADE IF

THEY CAN EVEN GET ANYTHING

 

BARD BACK TO BULLPEN f*** THAT SP EXPERIENCE MAKE EM THE CLOSER WHERE HE WILL GO BACK TO THROWING CHEESE

 

USE LAVERNWAY AS A TRADE CHIP AND GET GARZA

 

Youk will not get DFA'd. If we can't trade him, then he might see limited playing time the rest of the year.

 

Bard is on his way back to the pen in AAA. He is not going to become our closer over night. His velocity dropped big time. His 98 MPH fastball was a big component of him being a set-up man. If he cannot regain that velocity, he might have some problems.

 

Lavarnway should not be traded.

 

BTW, it is Red Sox. They are two separate words.

[a700hitter]

If you blow it up, I'll guarantee that there will be no playoffs this season or next season. We could hope for 2014 at best. I'm tired of paying premium prices for an inferior product. I am surely not alone in that sentiment. The *******s running this organization have lost their way. They have no discipline and seemingly little clue as to how to fix this mess, because they continue to sit on their hands.

[redsoxrules]

There's no way to blow up this team.

No one will want Lackey , Crawford wich are the 2 biggest problem regarding salaries.

 

Dice K and Youk will be gone after this season so there's no need to anything there.

They wouldn't fetch anything in return anyways.

 

The only player with a big contract that a team "might" jump on is Beckett but I highly doubt it . He hasn't been consistent.

 

Due to the fact Ellsbury is injured again he wont fetch anything either at this point.

 

 

You have to keep Pedey on this team as well as Agon, Lester, Buch .

 

there's going to be a lot money free'd up at the end of this season .

[wyo-sox]

If you blow it up' date=' I'll guarantee that there will be no playoffs this season or next season. We could hope for 2014 at best. I'm tired of paying premium prices for an inferior product. I am surely not alone in that sentiment. The *******s running this organization have lost their way. They have no discipline and seemingly little clue as to how to fix this mess, because they continue to sit on their hands.[/quote']

 

I'm trying very very hard to stay positive, but no... you are not alone in this sentiment.

[SoxSport]

I don't think they'll do a thing until CC and Ells come back, and they see where they are. Then they'll have to cut or trade a few outfielders. And maybe then they'll deal Youkilis. If they can unload any of those $20mil contracts for 50 cents on a dollar, they should.

 

The front office has made some dumb decisions this year on Iglesias and Bard, and the team has suffered from the clash between the FO and V. Bard should have closed or setup for Bailey--and then moved to closer when Bailey got injured. Iggy should have been the starting SS--he showed enough in ST. But LL, the real culprit along with Henry, let Ben & Co have their way because they made them look bad in the botched up, overexposed manager search. You look at those front office guys seen in the draft room on draft day--a bunch of preppies who don't look a day over 30. Some of those kids sitting in AAA may have more experience. Maybe I'm just getting old.

[ellsburyforMVP]

This seemed interesting to check out, until I see it was started by a Yankee , who has repeatedly said we should trade our best hitter ( Ortiz ) on more than one occasion ..... Enough said

[mvp 78]

Synopsis: If you can't trade everyone, just DFA them.

[jacksonianmarch]

This seemed interesting to check out' date=' until I see it was started by a Yankee , who has repeatedly said we should trade our best hitter ( Ortiz ) on more than one occasion ..... Enough said[/quote']

 

It's called a mental exercise. Try it. If you created a Yankee thread, I'd give you my honest opinion

[Palodios]

I do appreciate the thread, and I also think this team needs to be blown up. It will start at the top with guys like Beckett, and Youkilis that are ripping this team apart. As mediocre as Dice-k is, I would seriously bet that someone will want him come the trade deadline. Maybe a team like Toronto that is desperate for any sort of pitching depth.

 

I'd love to see the Red Sox manage to pry elite prospects away from a team for guys like Ellsbury or Bailey who can't seem to stay healthy to save their lives.

 

 

Starting Staff[/b

Jon Lester- talk about an enigma. His stuff is still sharp, but the once stricken happy go lucky kid has turned into a bitching, egomaniac who would probably do very well with a change of scenery. He has been warped by Beckett's mood and a breakup for them both might be best for the team. He's signed for a couple more seasons on a team friendly deal, and he is young and close enough to his recent streaks of dominance to bring a good haul back. I think a good move of Lester is to the DBacks for hot shot rookie Trevor Bauer. The DBacks get a guy with a proven track record and ace stuff who could use some time away from the Boston media scrutiny. The sox would get back a guy with ace potential who is in AAA and ready to produce. The Backs would have to move a few more players, but that would work for both teams, IMO.

 

 

Lester has to be as close to untouchable as they come on this team. It would take two elite-elite pitching prospects to get him off this team's hands, at the bare minimum. In my opinion, Jon Lester's contract makes him nearly as valuable as Felix Hernandez, perhaps more so. He's having a bad season, but it happens to everyone. Getting rid of Beckett should be the priority here, not Lester.

 

 

Some players to add to the list:

 

Kelly Shoppach: He's been OPSing .920 against right handed hitters this year, and he seriously wants more playing time. He's also far better than Salty defensively, and not coming back to Boston next year. He could possibly net a very solid mid tier prospect for one of the many contending teams lacking pitching depth.

 

 

Atchison, Albers, Miller: I've talked about it at length here this year, but there have been tons and tons of injuries to upper tier relief pitching this year. These guys have had deceptively good seasons this year, but there is always going to be that team that makes a dumb move to try to build relief pitching for a deep playoff run. Package one or two of these guys, and maybe use one of the catchers, and who knows, you may be able to pull away a good prospect. And to a lesser extent, you could probably throw in Tazawa, Mortensen, Wilson, Melancon and see what deals stick

[redsoxrules]

Again, Youk and Dicek are off the books after this year .

What does it matter if they get rid of them now or the end of the season ?

There not going to fetch anything in a trade

[jacksonianmarch]

Bauer is a top 10 prospect in the game and is ready to start right now, which is why I think he'd headline. Otherwise, I am sure you can go after some other elite talent that is further away and maybe you can get 2 of them, but with Bauer, you could stick him in the rotation today as he has just abused the high minors. 104K's in 84IP is impressive, and he has the stuff to headline a rotation. But you get my drift, deal him for something seriously substantial. The reason why I think he needs to move is the fact that he has been very mediocre since the ASB last yr and his attitude has gone into the tank. He fits into my "change of scenery" category. And if he continues to flounder and pitch like a #3, then he is gonna eventually be worth a #3. His contract and track record to this point will get a haul akin to a #1 or #2. The question is, do you cash in your chips while the stock is still high, or do you risk that he continues to be a middle of the rotation starter and see his value drop?

 

The other guys do have some worth, and I am sure you could flip them for some guys who could be helpful in the future.

[jacksonianmarch]

Again, Youk and Dicek are off the books after this year .

What does it matter if they get rid of them now or the end of the season ?

There not going to fetch anything in a trade

 

I think Youk is cooked, and keeping him around could have a negative impact on the clubhouse. Eventually, you have to cut bait. DiceK could return to some semblance of form and be useful at the deadline. You arent offering either arbitration at season's end, so if you can get ANYTHING from either of them, then it is worth it

[Palodios]

Again, Youk and Dicek are off the books after this year .

What does it matter if they get rid of them now or the end of the season ?

There not going to fetch anything in a trade

 

Youkilis needs to go simply because getting Middlebrooks consistent time is the best thing for this team.

 

Dicek is a decent--but not great-- starting pitcher, who would probably do very well in the NL or larger parks. He's a flyball pitcher in a groundball pitcher's park. Teams are always desperate for starting pitching-- remember last year how hard it was to get someone who could pitch below a 6.00 ERA?

[redsoxrules]

Red Sox have 43 MIL coming off payroll at the end of this year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Red Sox have 43 MIL coming off payroll at the end of this year.

 

Yes, you do. But you also have Ellsbury going into his final season. If you tie up all that money long term, then Ellsbury walks. Assuming no blow up, which I dont think the sox are gonna do, the sox are gonna stick it out with the team they have, resign Ortiz to a 1 yr deal and then use the Ortiz money to sign Ellsbury long term.

[redsoxrules]

Yes' date=' you do. But you also have Ellsbury going into his final season. If you tie up all that money long term, then Ellsbury walks. Assuming no blow up, which I dont think the sox are gonna do, the sox are gonna stick it out with the team they have, resign Ortiz to a 1 yr deal and then use the Ortiz money to sign Ellsbury long term.[/quote']

 

Who knows how Ellsbury will do when he comes back .

You have to wait that out. especially since he has 1 year arb left.

 

I'd love to get Cole Hamels on this team next year .

[jacksonianmarch]

Who knows how Ellsbury will do when he comes back .

You have to wait that out. especially since he has 1 year arb left.

 

I'd love to get Cole Hamels on this team next year .

 

I am sure you would. I have a feeling, though, that humongous expenditures arent in your team's future unless they offload some other humongous expenditures. Hence why I think Beckett needs to be dealt, or else it aint happening

[Palodios]

He fits into my "change of scenery" category. And if he continues to flounder and pitch like a #3' date=' then he is gonna eventually be worth a #3. His contract and track record to this point will get a haul akin to a #1 or #2. The question is, do you cash in your chips while the stock is still high, or do you risk that he continues to be a middle of the rotation starter and see his value drop?[/quote']

 

Lester has been making his own bad luck lately. Tito used to always call him a "good kid", but I think that Beckett and Lackey have been very bad influences on him. He's gotten into ruts when he's let his emotions get the better of him. Getting rid of Beckett is taking the training wheels off. Don't let him rely on someone else. He needs to take the ball, and realize he's been the best pitcher on this team for the last five years. He is the ace around here. On the mound, it looks like he forgets that sometimes.

[Palodios]

Who knows how Ellsbury will do when he comes back .

You have to wait that out. especially since he has 1 year arb left.

 

I'd love to get Cole Hamels on this team next year .

 

The revenue streams have been drying up fast in Boston. With the way 2010-2012 have gone, I would be very surprised if the Red Sox front office doesn't try to lower costs, and rely on the younger players-- and Lackey-- in 2013.

[a700hitter]

The revenue streams have been drying up fast in Boston. With the way 2010-2012 have gone' date=' I would be very surprised if the Red Sox front office doesn't try to lower costs, and rely on the younger players-- and Lackey-- in 2013.[/quote']

Translation: no October baseball.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lester has been making his own bad luck lately. Tito used to always call him a "good kid"' date=' but I think that Beckett and Lackey have been very bad influences on him. He's gotten into ruts when he's let his emotions get the better of him. Getting rid of Beckett is taking the training wheels off. Don't let him rely on someone else. He needs to take the ball, and realize he's been the best pitcher on this team for the last five years. He is the ace around here. On the mound, it looks like he forgets that sometimes.[/quote']

 

Here's the statistical problem I have with Lester.

 

From 08-10, he was remarkably consistent. His overall starts from those years were 6.4IP/GS, 3.28ERA, 208IP, 1.23WHIP, 2.8K/BB, 8.7K/9

 

Since last all star break, his ERA is up nearly a run (4.15), his WHIP up 0.11, his IP per start down 0.3, his K/9 down by 1 and his K/BB down 0.5. All his numbers across the board are slipping, and this yr he is only confirming those numbers instead of writing them off as just a bad half season. You have to do something. If you think getting rid of Beckett will cover it, then do it. But you either have to get an ace level return or hope he returns to his ace like form. Otherwise, you are stuck with a middle of the rotation pitcher who will become overpriced soon