6/16 @ Chicago Cubs

[Emmz]

Again, you're being pretentious. You're absolutely talking out of your ass. He is struggling, but he should be better than he has been. He has the right to be frustrated. Still waiting for proof that he admitted his attitude was a problem.

[Emmz]

We're all amateur analysts. Are you being paid' date=' Jung?[/quote']

 

He doesn't HAVE to guess!

[mvp 78]

Again' date=' you're being pretentious. You're absolutely talking out of your ass. He is struggling, but he should be better than he has been. He has the right to be frustrated. Still waiting for proof that he admitted his attitude was a problem.[/quote']

 

Emmz, just because you have a bad attitude and have given up doesn't mean you should attack other posters.

[redsoxbeatz]

Hey, sox won. Crazy.

 

Win tomorrow? Then lose 4? /sigh

 

C'mon Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross.

 

Adrian still sucks. Is he injured or a fraud?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Hey, sox won. Crazy.

 

Win tomorrow? Then lose 4? /sigh

 

C'mon Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross.

 

Adrian still sucks. Is he injured or a fraud?

Maybe he's learning the true value of god.

[jung]

Well Morales has been terrific when he gets to start clean innings and almost scary at the times when he can't start clean innings. Maybe he will see the 1st inning as just another clean inning to start.

[Emmz]

Hey, sox won. Crazy.

 

Win tomorrow? Then lose 4? /sigh

 

C'mon Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross.

 

Adrian still sucks. Is he injured or a fraud?

 

Fair weather much?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why don't you people make up your mind.

 

One of you wants to talk about Lester having pitched well tonight and somehow thinks I believe he had a particularly bad night.

 

One of you wants to talk about how frustrating his season has been and apparently thinks he has earned his frustration.

 

I don't think he has a single reason to be glaring out of the dugout AGAIN tonight. He pitched pretty well. He gave in on that dinger pitch and that would be the only thing he should have reservations about tonight. Not something he should have done and in other circumstances, easily the kind of thing that could cost him the game.

 

However:

He had a pretty good night I thought (although maybe he did not think so)

He was not pulled early

V had every right to come and talk to him before pulling him

the ump was not squeezing him to any great degree

 

Whether the issues that he himself has admitted to leaked into his game in that last inning is something I cannot divine. I do know that he himself has publicly admitted that he has attitude issues and he no longer seems to even recognize a good outing from a bad outing...no longer enjoys himself out there on the mound and has not found a way to get past this stuff yet.

 

Way more than 95% of Lester's starts are going to end with him being pulled at some point. So hopefully that is not an issue for him.

 

If Lester cannot draw enough positive energy from what he did on the mound to keep from stewing around the dugout like a caged bear that is truly a shame. Not sure when or how he is going to resolve this stuff but I repeat....I do not have to guess about whether or not these are issues for Lester. He has already publicly admitted that they are and has publicly admitted that they effect his performance on the mound.

 

You people are the amateur analysts. All I have to do is listen to the player himself and watch.

 

If only they could all be JD Drews.

[Cocos Disciples]

So no one's around when the Sox are winning or what? :/

 

Had a friend come over, had the game on in the background though. Got a bit close for comfort at the end.

 

I'm really curious... will Scott Atchison be worth a quality prospect at the trade deadline? He's such a sell-high kind of player... but I have the feeling there aren't going to be many relievers available this year.

 

I'd rather not deal him. I doubt teams would give up enough to make it worth it, even with his good performance this year.

 

I'm sorry' date=' but are you an expert on human behavior or something?[/quote']

 

Well, his name is Jung.

 

We're all amateur analysts.

 

This is important to note, for everyone regarding everything on this site.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ross should be activated early next week.

 

You could make an argument that Kalish should be activated early next week as well (.378, 1.234 OPS in AAA over 37 AB). I mean, even if he's just hot right now, you don't expect a player to come in white hot after missing a year. The biggest thing guys struggle with is timing, and that's clearly not an issue right now with him. Plate discipline has been there (10 K's, 7 BB's). Not sure what more they want to see.

 

And finally, Crawford is going out on a rehab assignment probably early next week.

 

All this to say - Youkilis better be packing his s*** up. He's going to be gone before the end of this month. The Sox absolutely cannot afford to sit two of Kalish, Sweeney, Ross, or Crawford to accommodate Youk by throwing Gonzo out in RF. No chance.

 

At this point, give me a bucket of balls for Youkilis and get him out of here. I want WMB out there every night. I want Gonzalez and his gold glove at 1B every night. And I want an OF who can run down balls for our pitchers every night. And I don't want a constant carousel of WMB/Youk/Gonzo between 1B/3B/RF.

[Palodios]

I'm starting to get concerned that WMB may be optioned to Pawtucket when those player return. Would it really surprise anyone to see that happen?

[jung]

That play in RF the other day was the Sox one shot at playing Russian Roulette with AGons. They pulled the trigger and fortunately there was no round chambered. He could very easily have been injured and then this whole thing would look just like the gamble it has been all along.

 

Agons is a GG 1st baseman and an accident waiting to happen in RF.

[Palodios]

That play in RF the other day was the Sox one shot at playing Russian Roulette with AGons. They pulled the trigger and fortunately there was no round chambered. He could very easily have been injured and then this whole thing would look just like the gamble it has been all along.

 

Agons is a GG 1st baseman and an accident waiting to happen in RF.

 

Best case scenario :

 

Gonzalez gets injured, 15 day DL. He takes an extended break in AAA, gets his timing back. Returns to the Red Sox. The Red Sox learn. He never plays OF again.

[FredLynn]

The season lives on to see another day. Every game is a big game from here until the end of September. Thats the kind of hole this team has dug for themselves.

[FredLynn]

Fair weather much?

 

BBQ to go to Emmz...said so on page 2 or so. No one here is a fairweather fan or they would have left long ago.

[Emmz]

The prediction of losing is sad. I'm getting more tired of the way some of you almost seem to gloat over the Sox's struggles, than I am of watching my team struggling.

 

That, to me, is the epitome of fairweather, half-assed fan behavior. You don't sacrifice anything with a low prediction, because if they're crap, you're right. If they're good, you say it's what you wanted. You don't fully support this team if your heart isn't in it enough to at least not PREDICT that we suck. That's the difference between pessimism and realism.

[a700hitter]

The prediction of losing is sad. I'm getting more tired of the way some of you almost seem to gloat over the Sox's struggles, than I am of watching my team struggling.

 

That, to me, is the epitome of fairweather, half-assed fan behavior. You don't sacrifice anything with a low prediction, because if they're crap, you're right. If they're good, you say it's what you wanted. You don't fully support this team if your heart isn't in it enough to at least not PREDICT that we suck. That's the difference between pessimism and realism.

That's not true. You can root like hell for your team, but still realize that they are not very good. I would think that happens a lot in places like KC, Cleveland, San Diego etc. Their fans can't possibly think they have a chance at winning anything. That doesn't make them fair weather fans.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm starting to get concerned that WMB may be optioned to Pawtucket when those player return. Would it really surprise anyone to see that happen?

 

Red Sox are 19-13 in games which Middlebrooks starts. I would be livid if they optioned him to Pawtucket. Livid. Youkilis is not helping this team right now at all.

 

If the Red Sox brass decide that showcasing Youkilis to save money in a trade is worth losing games after the position they've put themselves in, I think it would be a PR disaster and they'll put a s*****, s***** look on themselves.

[Emmz]

That's not a good example. Those teams don't have a chance. The Red Sox are barely below .500 with 3 of their best guys hurt, and 3 more struggling.

[Emmz]

It's easy, and I'm not trying to censor any opinions about this team, but redsoxbeatz only posts nasty, pessimistic comments. If you only got this team's back when they're good and not when they're struggling, you have the same mentality as a fairweather fan, weather you still watch games or not.

[a700hitter]

That's not a good example. Those teams don't have a chance. The Red Sox are barely below .500 with 3 of their best guys hurt' date=' and 3 more struggling.[/quote']I am sure that some fans of KC, Cleveland and San Diego actually think their teams have a chance. It doesn't make them better fans than those that think they don't have a chance. At this point, thinking that the Red Sox don't have a chance is not at all unreasonable and not unduly pessimistic.

[Emmz]

I am sure that some fans of KC' date=' Cleveland and San Diego actually think their teams have a chance. It doesn't make them better fans than those that think they don't have a chance. At this point, thinking that the Red Sox don't have a chance is not at all unreasonable and not unduly pessimistic.[/quote']

 

That's subjective. And you're still missing the point. I never said pessimism makes you a lesser fan, just redsoxbeatz seems like the type of guy who'll be over the Red Sox in a couple of weeks if they're still struggling. Don't give two shits if he's old enough to remember failures beyond this, he's being a tool.

[a700hitter]

That's subjective. And you're still missing the point. I never said pessimism makes you a lesser fan' date=' just redsoxbeatz seems like the type of guy who'll be over the Red Sox in a couple of weeks if they're still struggling. Don't give two shits if he's old enough to remember failures beyond this, he's being a tool.[/quote']He might be a tool. But it's not because he thinks the Sox suck. That's a fairly common opinion these days.

[Emmz]

They're frustrating as hell right now, and if we don't get an extended run of Ells, CC and everyone else playing their best, we are absolutely not going anywhere, but we aren't just "done" right now because we're below .500 with lots of games left. That is, imo, very unduly pessimistic.

[redsoxbeatz]

They're frustrating as hell right now' date=' and if we don't get an extended run of Ells, CC and everyone else playing their best, we are absolutely not going anywhere, but we aren't just "done" right now because we're below .500 with lots of games left. That is, imo, very unduly pessimistic.[/quote']

 

agreed.

 

if Ells & CC (& Ross, Bailey, etc) contribute to their fullest, the Red Sox are competitive in the ALE. Otherwise, not at all. This include Beckett coming back asap and on top of his game. Buch is the man. Lester needs to follow suit which supposedly he is on track of doing. I think this is all possible to happen, too. Why not? CC is excellent ball player. Adrian is too, he should find his swing but hopefully now not till next year or 2014.

[Emmz]

agreed.

 

if Ells & CC (& Ross, Bailey, etc) contribute to their fullest, the Red Sox are competitive in the ALE. Otherwise, not at all. This include Beckett coming back asap and on top of his game. Buch is the man. Lester needs to follow suit which supposedly he is on track of doing. I think this is all possible to happen, too. Why not? CC is excellent ball player. Adrian is too, he should find his swing but hopefully now not till next year or 2014.

 

I hope this is how everyone feels. Maybe we all just express it differently. I think we can have a run like that and make the playoffs, even win the division. This is a top 5 team if everyone's there, and not f***ing around or having a career-worst season.

 

Believe me, and I think I speak for everyone who is seen as an optimist as well, I think this team has been very frustrating to watch this year a lot of times.

[Bellhorn04]

That's not a good example. Those teams don't have a chance. The Red Sox are barely below .500 with 3 of their best guys hurt' date=' and 3 more struggling.[/quote']

 

I don't think there are any excuses for the Sox this year. They've missed the playoffs two years in a row, they have a $170 million + payroll, they have the highest ticket prices in baseball, and they went cheap this offseason by trading Scutaro and not acquiring a starting pitcher.

 

It's been a really good time to be a Sox fan since Henry bought the team. I'm just saying that this year, whatever criticism the Sox FO is getting I think they have coming to them.

[Palodios]

This is a top 5 team if everyone's there' date=' and not f***ing around or having a career-worst season.[/quote']

 

Absolutely. There is a massive amount of talent on this team. The problem is, I'm not certain when they'll stop f***ing around.

 

If you told me at the beginning of the year about how many filler players were doing well, I'd think the Red Sox would be several games up on the division by now. Doubront is kicking ass, Atchison is pitching like an allstar, Middlebrooks is ROY material, Dicek returned in June and was pitching like Dicek, and we've been getting great performances from Nava, Sweeney, Pods, Albers, Miller, Morales, and Shoppach....

 

The problem is... Anyone making more than 3 million on this team has either been significantly underperforming, or hurt for serious time. Of the 14 players that fall into the 3+ million category, Ortiz is the only one that has played well.

 

These are not old aging players that are breaking down. The majority of them are late 20s, early 30s, and they just can't get it done. I've been doing a lot of speculating as why this is, but in the end, I just think this team is rotten to its very core, with so many player conflicts that is bringing all the veterans down. There is no other reason why you can go completely around the board and point to so many underperforming players. And it all starts and ends with Josh Beckett.

[jung]

I think you are correct Bellhorn.

 

While it does seem clear that FSG upper management felt like it had to tighten the purse strings this year, they made that bed for themselves. They spent like drunken sailors or allowed the money to be spent that way on moves that Theo now acknowledges as being "sizzle" motivated on the one hand or were moves compelled by the need to feel like you are "doing something". So there you have it...from the horses mouth. The purse strings got tied off because we made bad moves....moves motivated by the wrong incentives and that is why we are in the mess we are in today.

 

They have yet to redeploy the Scutaro resources more effectively....their stated reason for getting rid of Scutaro and it does not look like they are going to do so. They left themselves so vulnerable in the SP that they now look very much like they are in the same boat they were in last year. The only difference is that the names have changed. Lackey and dice went down to injury last year. Bard has failed in his role this year and to date Beckett has lost the most time from the big 3. He will miss at least two more starts now having lost one earlier for a total of three so far.

 

Their SP is still to inconsistent for a team with post season aspirations regardless of what happens with the everyday players where they have gotten remarkable performances from replacement players. The SP is better than what it was at the start of the season but it is still found lacking when compared not to themselves but to the starting pitching they have to face around the league and in inter-league play.

 

Eventually they will live or die, not with the return of Ells or CC or Ross or even Bailey but with the quality of their SP. Currently, they just don't have enough. If they did we would not be seeing Frank Morales taking the mound tonight. To be frank, I don't think they will have enough even if Beckett comes right off the 15 day DL right back into the rotation.

[Emmz]

I don't think there are any excuses for the Sox this year. They've missed the playoffs two years in a row, they have a $170 million + payroll, they have the highest ticket prices in baseball, and they went cheap this offseason by trading Scutaro and not acquiring a starting pitcher.

 

It's been a really good time to be a Sox fan since Henry bought the team. I'm just saying that this year, whatever criticism the Sox FO is getting I think they have coming to them.

 

Of course they do. I'm not one of the FO ballwashers. I still think this team has the ability to get it done. I think everyone knows this is a capable team too.

 

This is too bizarre with how poorly AGon's playing, as well as how poorly CC played last year, and those two guys and Ells will decide whether or not this team goes all the way, or finishes with 80-85 wins, and finishes 3rd or 4th. If they play to capabilities and Pedroia turns it around, not too much to ask, this team has the ability to still win 95 games.