2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[SoxFanForsyth]

Realistically' date=' Dempster. I'm factoring in not only possible performance, but also cost.[/quote']

 

Dempster scares me a little. He's throwing pretty well over his head right now (2.9 BB/9 compared to 4.1 career, 1.153 WHIP compared to 1.442 career). I don't think his stuff translates to the AL East as well as Garza's stuff does.

 

Garza would cost more than Dempster, for sure. But he would also really solidify the rotation and even the bullpen via moving Bard to the pen. I would put Garza up against just about any #3 in the AL and expect to win or at least be in the game. It would also slot Buchholz down to the #4 slot, and Doubront down to the #5 slot, which gives this team a big edge in both of those aspects.

[jung]

We need to look at this the way other teams have looked at us when we wanted the middle aged star who has had some injury issues but who filled a hole in our championship plans. As fans we tend to look at this from the perspective of wins and that is not what any of this is about.

 

This is about fanny's in seats. Put Youk on one of these teams living currently off the second WC and suddenly attendance likely gets real sporty. Whoever it is that trades for Youk needs to overpay for him. If not I would not do the deal. A solid front line starting pitcher straight up for Youk is not going to happen. But if we are going to get a starting pitcher out of a Youk+ deal, it better damn well be the right starting pitcher.

 

If not then I would maybe take a front line player plus really solid, ready in 2013, 2014 pitching prospects....the other team pays all of Youk's salary. Something like that might work. I think the clock is ticking on Lester and Buch and even Beckett to some extent and the Sox are going to be needing to fill holes in 1,2 3 of the rotation before to long mainly because Lester and Buch are just not getting it done and I don't see any reason to suspect they are going to turn that around any time soon.

 

My preference would be for the solid front line starting pitcher now in a Youk+ deal as long as it was the right pitcher.

[SoxFanForsyth]

No, that's not what you said at all. Here's what I responded to.

 

 

 

The majority of Youk's money is not 1.5-2mm. And the difference between Youk and Cecchini with the majority of Youk's salary and Youk and Cecchini and 1.5 million is enormous.

 

Yeah I did say majority - My bad. I thought I just said $$$. But, the more I think about it, you're not going to get much back unless you pick up the majority of his contract. If you're looking at a 3-way trade, you need something of value going to Chicago.

 

To get Garza, it will absolutely take 2-3 quality prospects. You get one from the Dodgers for Youkilis (plus a low level prospect), and you send one. The deal still makes sense.

[evilhand]

Yeah I did say majority - My bad. I thought I just said $$$. But, the more I think about it, you're not going to get much back unless you pick up the majority of his contract. If you're looking at a 3-way trade, you need something of value going to Chicago.

 

To get Garza, it will absolutely take 2-3 quality prospects. You get one from the Dodgers for Youkilis (plus a low level prospect), and you send one. The deal still makes sense.

 

If we're talking 1.5-2mm, Youk and a Prospect (I still think Cecchini is way too much), then we're closer than you might think to agreeing. I think someone like Alex Wilson or Kolbrin Vitek makes more sense (You mentioned Vitek up thread). Cecchini came into the year either top 100 or close to top 100 depending on the source with Sickels thinking he could vault into the the top 20 if he keeps raking.

 

Well, he's raking. .307/.392/.450. He's in infielder with great patience, good contact skills and some pop. He could be moved to 2nd as the eventual replacement for Pedroia. He is enormously valuable when you take position into account. I'd rather they deal Brentz than Cecchini, despite Brentz being much higher in the rankings right now. (not that I'm suggesting Brentz as part of a Youk trade... just making a point about Cecchini)

[SoxFanForsyth]

If we're talking 1.5-2mm, Youk and a Prospect (I still think Cecchini is way too much), then we're closer than you might think to agreeing. I think someone like Alex Wilson or Kolbrin Vitek makes more sense (You mentioned Vitek up thread). Cecchini came into the year either top 100 or close to top 100 depending on the source with Sickels thinking he could vault into the the top 20 if he keeps raking.

 

Well, he's raking. .307/.392/.450. He's in infielder with great patience, good contact skills and some pop. He could be moved to 2nd as the eventual replacement for Pedroia. He is enormously valuable when you take position into account. I'd rather they deal Brentz than Cecchini, despite Brentz being much higher in the rankings right now. (not that I'm suggesting Brentz as part of a Youk trade... just making a point about Cecchini)

 

Keith Law recently said during a chat that Vitek is a better player than Cecchini. Personally, I've never seen either of them play, and definitely not to the extent where I can draw a conclusion on who is better. Regardless, I have heard that Cecchini is an underrated prospect and could certainly be the breakout player for the Sox farm this year.

 

If we can get away with sending Youk + $2-3mm + a prospect with a lower ceiling than Cecchini and get Garza, I'm all for it. One thing the Sox could definitely do is let Theo play into their hands. We all know that Theo falls in love with some guys for unknown reasons (See: Lugo), so there may be a guy in the Sox farm that Theo has a mancrush on and can't get over (Think: Sean Coyle).

[Rdsxmbnt]

If we're talking 1.5-2mm, Youk and a Prospect (I still think Cecchini is way too much), then we're closer than you might think to agreeing. I think someone like Alex Wilson or Kolbrin Vitek makes more sense (You mentioned Vitek up thread). Cecchini came into the year either top 100 or close to top 100 depending on the source with Sickels thinking he could vault into the the top 20 if he keeps raking.

 

Well, he's raking. .307/.392/.450. He's in infielder with great patience, good contact skills and some pop. He could be moved to 2nd as the eventual replacement for Pedroia. He is enormously valuable when you take position into account. I'd rather they deal Brentz than Cecchini, despite Brentz being much higher in the rankings right now. (not that I'm suggesting Brentz as part of a Youk trade... just making a point about Cecchini)

 

Agreed I think Cecchini is one to hold onto. Though I'd definitely deal Youk+prospect to get Garza. Maybe like Tazawa would be of interest to the Cubs since they could possibly stretch him out to start and Theo recruited him himself.

 

Red Sox in: Garza

Red Sox out: Youk, Tazawa

 

Dodgers in: Youk

Dodgers out: Two prospects

 

Cubs in: Tazawa, two prosects

Cubs out: Garza

 

No cash changing hands since Youk/Garza is a wash and if anything the Cubs would need to pay up. Although Garza is younger, hes a middle/back end of hte rotation guy while Youk is possibly a middle of the order everyday hitter.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The thing with the Red Sox is that they are loaded with 3B talent. And that's crazy because 3B talent overall is down in the minors.

 

They've got Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, Cecchini, and Vitek. All 3B. I just think it would be pretty smart to deal from a position of strength (minor league 3B) for a position of weakness (MLB SP).

[evilhand]

We all know that Theo falls in love with some guys for unknown reasons (See: Lugo)' date=' so there may be a guy in the Sox farm that Theo has a mancrush on and can't get over (Think: Sean Coyle).[/quote']

 

His knowledge of the Sox system could work to Ben's advantage or against it. Theo probably has a few prospects he values more than Ben, the key will be which one blinks first in that regard.

 

As for Tazawa (mentioned by Rdsxmbnt), he's one of my binkies. I think he's he's a really underrated talent and could be a dominant reliever or a solid starter if they stretch him out. He has great stuff and throws a ton of strikes. I'd like to see them hold onto him.

 

And I agree that the Sox have a lot of 3b talent, but Bogaerts isn't there yet. He's still a SS and the team is hoping he can avoid being moved to the corner. I am, too. His bat would be huge out of SS. All he needs to do is maintain the ability to be an average defender to justify keeping him there.

 

Of course, I say that as someone who thinks Iglesias is more likely to end up a utility player than a starter long term. And I could see an ARod-like path for Bogaerts (not saying he'd be that good, just a similar position track). Start as a SS, and as he gets older and continues to fill out, eventually move him to third.

[seabeachfred]

Keith Law recently said during a chat that Vitek is a better player than Cecchini. Personally, I've never seen either of them play, and definitely not to the extent where I can draw a conclusion on who is better. Regardless, I have heard that Cecchini is an underrated prospect and could certainly be the breakout player for the Sox farm this year.

 

If we can get away with sending Youk + $2-3mm + a prospect with a lower ceiling than Cecchini and get Garza, I'm all for it. One thing the Sox could definitely do is let Theo play into their hands. We all know that Theo falls in love with some guys for unknown reasons (See: Lugo), so there may be a guy in the Sox farm that Theo has a mancrush on and can't get over (Think: Sean Coyle).

 

Sorry guys but I've heard about enough of this nonsense via Youk and the Cubs to nearly drown me. Youk is not going to the Cubs because the Cubs don't want him. They don't want him because they are ready to go into a full fledged rebuilding mode. It would take two good prospects to get Garza and please put Youk out of your talks. He goes only to a team that feels it has a chance to go deep into the post season this year.

 

I do like the idea of letting Cecchini play some second because unless Pukington and Il Duce really blow it again Middlebrooks should be stationed at third base f or a long time, and we don't know whether the Sox will crap out in resigning Pedroia when his contract ends in three years. In fact, I would trade Youk NOW before he gets injured again and goes on the DL. Then we have a white elephant we can't get rid of this season because no one would give us much for him and we would hold onto him and keep running him out to third to the detriment of Middlebrooks' development. Start the rebuilding job we need right now because we are not going anywhere this season. Lester, Beckett, Bard and Buchholz have made that clear with their miserable pitching so far this year.

[evilhand]

seabeachfred, I'm guessing you didn't read the thread very carefully, or you'd have known people were talking about three way trades involving the Cubs, meaning Youk would not end up in Chicago.

[jacksonianmarch]

Olney is reporting that the Yankees #1 trade target is Garza. It'd have to be quite a haul, since they gave up a lot to get him, but we have the stock. The question will be, who they want?

 

If I had to guess....

 

Headliner A- Manuel Banuelos

Headliner B- Tyler Austin

Mid level A- Corban Joseph

Mid level B- Nik Turley

[Dojji]

I don't think we're as desperate for a SP as we were a month ago.

 

Our rotation looks pretty respectable if this rebound by Buchholz is legit. You can agree or disagree with the Bard experiment, but as 5th starters go he doesn't stand out one way or the other, and replacing a 5th starter with a mid 4's ERA isn't high on anyone's priority list -- or shouldn't be. And our bullpen is underrated at the moment. A lot of plug-in guys are playing up to their ability, and we have some untapped potential in that pen even before Bailey comes back.

 

We're easily worse off in the middle of the infield right now than we are in frontline starting. Thus my suggestion of Ivan Dejesus.

[evilhand]

Olney is reporting that the Yankees #1 trade target is Garza. It'd have to be quite a haul, since they gave up a lot to get him, but we have the stock. The question will be, who they want?

 

If I had to guess....

 

Headliner A- Manuel Banuelos

Headliner B- Tyler Austin

Mid level A- Corban Joseph

Mid level B- Nik Turley

 

I think you guys would be insane to part with Banuelos, especially for someone like Garza. You need an influx of young talent and he'll be the tip of the spear there. Not saying the Yankees can't put together a package for Garza, but I'd be stunned if Banuelos is part of it.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think you guys would be insane to part with Banuelos' date=' especially for someone like Garza. You need an influx of young talent and he'll be the tip of the spear there. Not saying the Yankees can't put together a package for Garza, but I'd be stunned if Banuelos is part of it.[/quote']

 

I hope he wouldnt be, but I think that is where a deal for a pitcher would start. I hope we keep Banuelos, because I think he can be what Johan was a few yrs back when he had velocity. His stuff is ridiculous

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, Garza has a rep of a top of the rotation pitcher, but he is averaging less than 6IP per start in the NL Central. Thats a big red flag IMO

[evilhand]

Banuelos alone would be an overpay for Garza. I'm sure Theo will ask, but Cashman will say no and they'll move on. There are plenty of pieces in the New York farm system for Theo to target. They could work something out without him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Banuelos alone would be an overpay for Garza. I'm sure Theo will ask' date=' but Cashman will say no and they'll move on. There are plenty of pieces in the New York farm system for Theo to target. They could work something out without him.[/quote']

 

I am sure they could. There are a lot of pieces there. Maybe they'd be willing to get Betances and try to figure him out.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Could be a bidding war between the Red Sox and Yankees.

[Dojji]

There shouldn't be.

 

I do not like Garza for some reason. He triggers all my warning sirens. My gut isn't infallible, but it beats a stopped clock.

[a700hitter]

Could be a bidding war between the Red Sox and Yankees.

Cherries is too indecisive to win at that. Cashman will eat Cherries lunch and we'll get excuses.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cherries is too indecisive to win at that. Cashman will eat Cherries lunch and we'll get excuses.

 

My concern is the fact that we get a lot deeper next yr and we have a lot of pitching ready and waiting. If we deal for Garza, we'd have to move some of it, ie Warren, Mitchell, etc

[User Name]

Cherries is too indecisive to win at that. Cashman will eat Cherries lunch and we'll get excuses.

 

What does this even mean?

 

Where do you come up with this s***?

[jacksonianmarch]

What does this even mean?

 

Where do you come up with this s***?

 

I am not sure Garza is right for any of us. Like I said, less than 6IP per start

[User Name]

I am not sure Garza is right for any of us. Like I said' date=' less than 6IP per start[/quote']

 

I meant a700, not you. What you said makes absolute sense.

[mvp 78]

What does this even mean?

 

Where do you come up with this s***?

 

That's just his narrative for every situation no matter if it makes sense or not.

[a700hitter]

That's just his narrative for every situation no matter if it makes sense or not.

Who has a narrative? What does that mean?

[RedSoxNC84]

Who has a narrative? What does that mean?

 

You guys are confusing the s*** out of me.

[seabeachfred]

seabeachfred' date=' I'm guessing you didn't read the thread very carefully, or you'd have known people were talking about three way trades involving the Cubs, meaning Youk would not end up in Chicago.[/quote']

 

Ev, you got me there. Apparently I didn't read it carefully enough. I saw Youk and Chicago mentioned and added up two and two and it came out three. Nevertheless, we should trade him NOW when we have the chance. If he melts down again and goes on the DL we'll get little for him, he will then stay around and horn in on Middlebrooks' time in the field. That must not happen. We've become very notorious for keeping good prospects down on the farm too long the past few years. Remember Michael Bowden? He was considered my many to be the best pitcher in the minor leagues in early 2007. Instead of bringing him up and putting him in the rotation we went with a couple of old timers, kept him down there where he got injured and regressed. Today he was put on waivers by the Cubs. We must not do t hat anymore with our good prospects. When they are ready they must be brought up, put in the lineup and kept there while the has-beens and sacred cows are sent packing.

[kapsis21]

What does this even mean?

 

Where do you come up with this s***?

 

i think he means Ben Cherrington cant decide and Cashman will pull the plug on the trade...

[SoxFan02]

Ev' date=' you got me there. Apparently I didn't read it carefully enough. I saw Youk and Chicago mentioned and added up two and two and it came out three. Nevertheless, we should trade him NOW when we have the chance. If he melts down again and goes on the DL we'll get little for him, he will then stay around and horn in on Middlebrooks' time in the field. That must not happen. We've become very notorious for keeping good prospects down on the farm too long the past few years.[b'] Remember Michael Bowden? He was considered my many to be the best pitcher in the minor leagues in early 2007.[/b] Instead of bringing him up and putting him in the rotation we went with a couple of old timers, kept him down there where he got injured and regressed. Today he was put on waivers by the Cubs. We must not do t hat anymore with our good prospects. When they are ready they must be brought up, put in the lineup and kept there while the has-beens and sacred cows are sent packing.

 

I have no clue what the hell your talking about. Michael Bowden started 2007 in the California League (High-A) and wasn't even the best pitcher in the Red Sox organization http://soxprospects.com/history.htm. I love Middlebrooks, but if you watch his at bats he clearly looks like a guy that use more seasoning in AAA (only 56 ABs). His stats back this up with a BABIP at nearly .400 and a K rate of 29%, the power may be undeniable but eventually the law of averages is going to balance out and it could get ugly very fast. When he does struggle and the Sox are forced to keep him in the majors because Youk is gone, it will be incredibly detrimental for his long term potential. The list of guys that never panned out because they were rushed to the big leagues is much longer than the guys that achieved sustained success at each level before reaching the majors. In my opinion, this is just a journalist trying to make headlines. Youk will remain the 3rd baseman and Middlebrooks will be optioned down to Pawtucket once interleague starts back up again.