Updates on ex-Sox players etc.

[Laser Show]

An outfielder with no speed or no pop is next to useless. You have to have one or the other in the OF. That's his problem in a nutshell. He is no more than a scrub at the ML level.

 

He's a 4th OF at best. We traded for him to platoon in RF with Ross until Kalish is ready to take over full time. Sweeney was just a bat thrown in, Bailey was the real piece we traded for. All the injuries have caused us to rely on him a lot more than we ever wanted to.

[a700hitter]

Rizzo is 4-5 against the Mets tonight with his 4th HR (Gonzo has 6) and 3 RBI.

[Bellhorn04]

The Lowrie for Melancon trade is looking a little better. Lowrie had been slumping for about a month and is now on the DL with what could be a significant injury. Melancon has been excellent since being recalled, giving up 1 run and 10 baserunners in 15.1 innings.

[Station 13]

Cubs has the best record in baseball since they bring up Rizzo. Just 22 he's already taken a leadership role for that rebuilding team.

 

and he's OPSing 1.000 to boot.

 

<_>

[SemperFi Sox]

Everyone who leaves us flourishes LoL.....except for bay

[a700hitter]

I wonder how people here will react if Youk helps the ChiSox take a couple of games from us this week. We can't afford splits at home if there is going to be a run at the Yankees.

[SouthieFanatic]

This may get a chuckle out of some folks, but I was so high on Engel Beltre back 2-3 years ago. Anyone know how he's doing in the rangers system? I wouldn't be suprised if they give up on him to especially when Profar is a year away from the bigs

[Rdsxmbnt]

Cubs has the best record in baseball since they bring up Rizzo. Just 22 he's already taken a leadership role for that rebuilding team.

 

and he's OPSing 1.000 to boot.

 

<_>

 

Nava had a 1.000+ OPS in his first 60 plate appearance for us too this year

[Laser Show]

Nava had a 1.000+ OPS in his first 60 plate appearance for us too this year

 

Yeah, but Nava will end up in the HoF according to some posters here.

[Station 13]

Nava had a 1.000+ OPS in his first 60 plate appearance for us too this year

 

Rizzo has real HR power to hit 30+.

[Station 13]

Rizzo .330/.371/.587 8HR (28 games)

[Bellhorn04]

A. J. Burnett loses a no-hitter in the 8th, ends up with a 1-hit shutout. He's now 13-3 with a 3.27 ERA for the Bucs. LMAO

[Laser Show]

A. J. Burnett loses a no-hitter in the 8th' date=' ends up with a 1-hit shutout. He's now 13-3 with a 3.27 ERA for the Bucs. LMAO[/quote']

 

Wrong thread.. Burnett was never on the Sox. We have a no-no watch thread just for these

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong thread.. Burnett was never on the Sox. We have a no-no watch thread just for these

 

I started the thread...didn't really care about the near no-no...I only mentioned Burnett because he's an ex-Yankee and I enjoy it when ex-Yankees do better than when they were on the Yankees.

[Bellhorn04]

Since the White Sox played in Fenway, Youk is 4 for 37.

[Orange Juiced]

Rizzo .330/.371/.587 8HR (28 games)

 

BC should call Theo and offer Gonzalez for Rizzo straight-up. What's Theo going to say?

 

"No thanks, we like Rizzo better." - Um, wait a minute. Just 2 years ago you traded Rizzo *AND* two other top prospects just to get Gonzalez. And now you won't do Gonzo for Rizzo straight-up? Rizzo is exactly who you thought he was going to be.

 

"No thanks, Rizzo makes too much money." - Um, wait a minute. First of all, Chicago is a major market, so contracts are no issue. Second, YOU were the one who gave Gonzalez all this money, so obviously you think he's worth it.

 

"No thanks, I realize now that I made a huge mistake with Gonzalez." - Um, wait a minute. So you did, in fact, screw up majorly with that trade? Thanks for leaving the Sox in the lurch.

 

(just saying)....

[User Name]

Anthony Rizzo has played a grand total of 29 games this year. Let's wait a little before we appoint him the second coming of Ted Williams.

 

Don't get me wrong, i don't doubt his ability, but comparing him to Gonzalez (down season and all) right now is just silly.

[User Name]

And for the record, over his last 25 games, Gonzalez is hitting .372/.385/.543 .928 OPS. That's the magic of small samples.

[Orange Juiced]

And for the record' date=' over his last 25 games, Gonzalez is hitting .372/.385/.543 .928 OPS. That's the magic of small samples.[/quote']

 

Oh I know. And I like Gonzalez. I'm just saying that I doubt Theo would do that deal now, but it would be interesting to see his reason why, given that he lusted after Gonzalez for years.

[a700hitter]

Oh I know. And I like Gonzalez. I'm just saying that I doubt Theo would do that deal now' date=' but it would be interesting to see his reason why, given that he lusted after Gonzalez for years.[/quote']Gonzo has not played like a $22 million/yr player all season, and I doubt that his numbers at the end of the season will justify that kind of money. Itr is particularly distrressing, because he should be in the prime of his career.

[BornToRun]

It's one year. He lived up to the paycheck last season and he is starting to swing the bat better. Rizzo's been up for like a month. A bit early to pass judgement I'd say.

[a700hitter]

It's one year. He lived up to the paycheck last season and he is starting to swing the bat better. Rizzo's been up for like a month. A bit early to pass judgement I'd say.

This season he will not earn is paycheck. We'll have to see about the rest of his contract.

[Orange Juiced]

Gonzo has not played like a $22 million/yr player all season' date=' and I doubt that his numbers at the end of the season will justify that kind of money. Itr is particularly distrressing, because he should be in the prime of his career.[/quote']

 

Here are Gonzo's numbers for 2012:

 

Overall: .297/.338/.441/.779, 106 ops+, 10 hr, 62 rbi, 1.6 WAR

First 70: .256/.313/.392/.704, 5 hr, 36 rbi

Last 32: .383/.397/.547/.944, 5 hr, 26 rbi

 

Here are the #s from the 70/32 splits projected over 162 games:

 

First 70: .256/.313/.392/.704, 76 r, 51 2b, 12 hr, 83 rbi

Last 32: .383/.397/.547/.944, 96 r, 31 2b, 25 hr, 132 rbi

 

Taking a larger look, here are his numbers over the last 78 games:

 

.311/.341/.463/.804, 40 r, 23 2b, 8 hr, 47 rbi

 

That would project out to the following line over 162 games:

 

.311/.341/.463/.804, 83 r, 48 2b, 17 hr, 98 rbi

 

Now that would be a terrific hitter for any major league team. But the Sox surely expected more power in the form of home runs. That player wouldn't be worth $22 million, but that's still a really good hitter.

 

And there's no doubt that he's mashing the ball lately, and driving in a ton of runs. The last 32 games he's been tremendous. Let's hope he keeps it going.

[BornToRun]

Here are Gonzo's numbers for 2012:

 

Overall: .297/.338/.441/.779, 106 ops+, 10 hr, 62 rbi, 1.6 WAR

First 70: .256/.313/.392/.704, 5 hr, 36 rbi

Last 32: .383/.397/.547/.944, 5 hr, 26 rbi

 

Here are the #s from the 70/32 splits projected over 162 games:

 

First 70: .256/.313/.392/.704, 76 r, 51 2b, 12 hr, 83 rbi

Last 32: .383/.397/.547/.944, 96 r, 31 2b, 25 hr, 132 rbi

 

Taking a larger look, here are his numbers over the last 78 games:

 

.311/.341/.463/.804, 40 r, 23 2b, 8 hr, 47 rbi

 

That would project out to the following line over 162 games:

 

.311/.341/.463/.804, 83 r, 48 2b, 17 hr, 98 rbi

 

Now that would be a terrific hitter for any major league team. But the Sox surely expected more power in the form of home runs. That player wouldn't be worth $22 million, but that's still a really good hitter.

 

And there's no doubt that he's mashing the ball lately, and driving in a ton of runs. The last 32 games he's been tremendous. Let's hope he keeps it going.

 

Plus what he's done over his entire career points, overwhelmingly, to him performing more in line what he did in 2011 than 2012. The guy popped 40 HR's in Petco and was an MVP candidate last year. I think what's he's done is a very strong indicator of what we can expect moving forward and that what is happening this year is in all likelihood an outlier.

[a700hitter]

Here are Gonzo's numbers for 2012:

 

Overall: .297/.338/.441/.779, 106 ops+, 10 hr, 62 rbi, 1.6 WAR

First 70: .256/.313/.392/.704, 5 hr, 36 rbi

Last 32: .383/.397/.547/.944, 5 hr, 26 rbi

 

Here are the #s from the 70/32 splits projected over 162 games:

 

First 70: .256/.313/.392/.704, 76 r, 51 2b, 12 hr, 83 rbi

Last 32: .383/.397/.547/.944, 96 r, 31 2b, 25 hr, 132 rbi

 

Taking a larger look, here are his numbers over the last 78 games:

 

.311/.341/.463/.804, 40 r, 23 2b, 8 hr, 47 rbi

 

That would project out to the following line over 162 games:

 

.311/.341/.463/.804, 83 r, 48 2b, 17 hr, 98 rbi

 

Now that would be a terrific hitter for any major league team. But the Sox surely expected more power in the form of home runs. That player wouldn't be worth $22 million, but that's still a really good hitter.

 

And there's no doubt that he's mashing the ball lately, and driving in a ton of runs. The last 32 games he's been tremendous. Let's hope he keeps it going.

.804 OPS and 17 HRs? Wow, They could have saved themselves about $17 million/yr to get those numbers from a bunch of other guys like Adam LaRoche, Mark Reynolds, Carlos Pena etc. The $17 million would have bought a nice stud. Gonzo isn't going to earn his money this season. There are no numbers that can be tortured to prove otherwise.

[a700hitter]

Plus what he's done over his entire career points' date=' overwhelmingly, to him performing more in line what he did in 2011 than 2012. The guy popped 40 HR's in Petco and was an MVP candidate last year. I think what's he's done is a very strong indicator of what we can expect moving forward and that what is happening this year is in all likelihood an outlier.[/quote']Let's hope. This year cannot be ignored. He performed well below his pay grade.

[BornToRun]

Let's hope. This year cannot be ignored. He performed well below his pay grade.

 

For 1 year.

 

Manny had off years too you know. As did Papi and a whole host of superstars. It happens, I have no reason to be worried about Gonzo moving forward.

[jung]

What is even more disturbing or at least potentially disturbing is that all those gaudy numbers from the past that people want to point to are pre-shoulder injury, surgery and rehab. With the exception of a half season of baseball, last year he has not been able to produce those kinds of power numbers.

 

What is encouraging is that he has begun to be more effective on inside pitches again. They have to get pretty far in under his hands to get him out in there now. He had been looking outside so much that he had become meat inside. That is the most encouraging thing I have seen from Agons this year. Once again though, big money is paid for big power and without big power Agons is a huge overpay.

[Orange Juiced]

.804 OPS and 17 HRs? Wow' date=' They could have saved themselves about $17 million/yr to get those numbers from a bunch of other guys like Adam LaRoche, Mark Reynolds, Carlos Pena etc. The $17 million would have bought a nice stud. Gonzo isn't going to earn his money this season. There are no numbers that can be tortured to prove otherwise.[/quote']

 

No argument from me on that point. I'm just suggesting that he got off to a horrible start but that he's really been hitting very well for a pretty good stretch now. He's obviously capable of keeping up a terrific pace the rest of the year. He won't end up with 30+ homers (or maybe even 20+), but if he can do over the last two months what he's done the previous two, he'll be a huge asset for the Red Sox as they try to make the playoffs.

 

Personally, I don't see how *any* player is worth the kind of money that the top stars do, but that's probably because I can't even fathom what $22 million looks like.

[Orange Juiced]

For 1 year.

 

Manny had off years too you know. As did Papi and a whole host of superstars. It happens, I have no reason to be worried about Gonzo moving forward.

 

I know you aren't suggesting that Gonzo is Manny, but I'll just say it: Gonzo isn't even remotely in the same class as Manny in terms of being a hitter. Not even close.

 

Just go by ops+ numbers, because those are park-adjusted. Here are Manny's ops+ numbers from his first full season (age 23) through his age 30 season:

 

147

146

144

146

174

186

162

184

 

Now here are Gonzalez' ops+ numbers from his first full season (age 24) through his age 30 season:

 

127

126

140

162

152

154

106

 

Don't get me wrong - Gonzo has been a tremendous hitter. But Manny was otherworldly...one of the best the sport has ever seen. Gonzo has had one season with an ops+ of 155 or higher. Manny had three seasons of an ops+ of 174 or more three times by the age of 30. Manny's worst pre-30 season (by ops+) was a 144. That number would have been 4th on Gonzalez' list.

 

So I get your point - that this may be just a down year for Gonzalez. And I hope you're right. But Manny *never* had a down year like what Gonzalez is having this year. Not remotely.