5/1 vs Athletics

[a700hitter]

I don't see what Lars is doing here either...has anybody seen Abreu lately. I have not. Are his legs shot finally...I always thought that would be the thing that went first for him.

 

Anyway there is nothing that Lars can do here. I only saw that at bat from way far away trying to get the dogs to the front door and see the TV at the same time and could not even see that it was Lars. Saw enough to agree that was a terrible at bat.

 

Maybe the Sox just do not want end up bringing up Middlebrooks unless they think he will be here to stay.....I really don't have a good reason myself for why they did not bring him up under the circumstances.

The Orioles are looking at Abreu. We could see him on the weekend. If he's on the O's hopefully he is shot. But our bullpen could be a fountain of youth for him.

[a700hitter]

I live in NY and work in NYC. I would sound like a complete bufoon trying to tell Yankee fans that our current team can compete with the Yankees. They are having plenty of laughs at our expense, and I have to keep my mouth shut and head down, because I got nothing to counter with. It's very f***ing frustrating.

[jung]

The Sox used to make life miserable for every starting pitcher they faced...making him throw many pitches and getting his pitch count up all the time...every game. The Yanks still seem to do that. Really frustrating to me that it seems to have become an afterthought for the Sox. Plus it is something that you do as a team. Maybe that frustrates me more than anything else.

[redsoxbeatz]

Just a cold night for the Sox literally & figuratively, need some warmth over there on the east coast to get baseball season really goin'. Ortiz can't be the leader of this rotation all frickin' season. Where's Agonz?

 

CC is out 3 mo but I read somewhere he could be back prior to the AS break...

[a700hitter]

Just a cold night for the Sox literally & figuratively, need some warmth over there on the east coast to get baseball season really goin'. Ortiz can't be the leader of this rotation all frickin' season. Where's Agonz?

 

CC is out 3 mo but I read somewhere he could be back prior to the AS break...

I don't see how they can be within striking distance of the division lead at the AS Break unless we make some moves or guys return from injury sooner than expected.

[User Name]

The Sox used to make life miserable for every starting pitcher they faced...making him throw many pitches and getting his pitch count up all the time...every game. The Yanks still seem to do that. Really frustrating to me that it seems to have become an afterthought for the Sox. Plus it is something that you do as a team. Maybe that frustrates me more than anything else.

 

What did you expect? The team currently has a bunch of hackers out there. Until the the lineup is complete and Gonzalez starts hitting, they'll be middling in P/PA.

[kapsis21]

I live in NY and work in NYC. I would sound like a complete bufoon trying to tell Yankee fans that our current team can compete with the Yankees. They are having plenty of laughs at our expense' date=' and I have to keep my mouth shut and head down, because I got nothing to counter with. It's very f***ing frustrating.[/quote']

 

wait till the fat lady sings my friend. i know NY fans love to boast and somehow it never backfires with them..but with redsox seems like if we say something it immediately gets jinxed. hate that feeling.

i remember the Pats Giants matchup and boy did i want to gloat that this time Brady is going to take care of it but freaking WR core drop some crucial passes at the wrong time...

but what can you say we are the only team that has 5 regular players on the injurred list. no team has that many.

hoping when we get healthier things will start to come around.

[jung]

What did you expect? The team currently has a bunch of hackers out there. Until the the lineup is complete and Gonzalez starts hitting, they'll be middling in P/PA.

 

Since we all lived the later part of last season together, it does not take much to remember that in reality the Sox really became less diligent in this area from sometime after the 2011 AS Break and remained that way till the last day of the season. Now they have started this season in similar fashion even with as you have noted a somewhat different cast of characters. To me it seems more like something that the Sox in general and I guess Magadan in particular must not be emphasizing.

 

When the Sox are working at it you can really tell the difference. Pitchers leave the mound frustrated almost from the first at bats of the game and it just wears them down. While I guess the incentive to do it can come from anybody that the team will follow, to me Jeter seems to me to be the catalyst for the Yanks in this regard. It does not have to come from a player.

 

So that is a real concern for me anyway. This seems to be a carryover from the later part of last season as opposed to being something specific to this particular grouping of players.

 

Starting somewhere around the 5th or maybe 6th inning last night the Sox became noticeably more patient at the plate. Unfortunately they did not do anything with the opportunities that it yielded and it was just a bit late by then. However one thing that was clear just from last night is that they can do it and that even with a pitcher that is pitching a darned good game, better pitches to hit will result to say nothing of the impact to the pitch count. Not sure why it takes five innings of futility to do it and why they no longer do it as a matter of course as they once did.

[a700hitter]

wait till the fat lady sings my friend. i know NY fans love to boast and somehow it never backfires with them..but with redsox seems like if we say something it immediately gets jinxed. hate that feeling.

i remember the Pats Giants matchup and boy did i want to gloat that this time Brady is going to take care of it but freaking WR core drop some crucial passes at the wrong time...

but what can you say we are the only team that has 5 regular players on the injurred list. no team has that many.

hoping when we get healthier things will start to come around.

They are supposed to have a plan B and be able to adapt on the fly. Sitting tight never works. Look at past seasons where we waited for injured stars to return to good health and rescue the team. It doesn't happen. Those teams went down in flames.

[User Name]

Since we all lived the later part of last season together' date='[b'] it does not take much to remember that in reality the Sox really became less diligent in this area from sometime after the 2011 AS Break and remained that way till the last day of the season.[/b] Now they have started this season in similar fashion even with as you have noted a somewhat different cast of characters. To me it seems more like something that the Sox in general and I guess Magadan in particular must not be emphasizing.

 

When the Sox are working at it you can really tell the difference. Pitchers leave the mound frustrated almost from the first at bats of the game and it just wears them down. While I guess the incentive to do it can come from anybody that the team will follow, to me Jeter seems to me to be the catalyst for the Yanks in this regard. It does not have to come from a player.

 

So that is a real concern for me anyway. This seems to be a carryover from the later part of last season as opposed to being something specific to this particular grouping of players.

 

Starting somewhere around the 5th or maybe 6th inning last night the Sox became noticeably more patient at the plate. Unfortunately they did not do anything with the opportunities that it yielded and it was just a bit late by then. However one thing that was clear just from last night is that they can do it and that even with a pitcher that is pitching a darned good game, better pitches to hit will result to say nothing of the impact to the pitch count. Not sure why it takes five innings of futility to do it and why they no longer do it as a matter of course as they once did.

 

This is not true at all. The Red Sox were a top 3 team in P/PA and BB all season long in 2011, the problem is this season, with Marlon Byrd, Cody Ross, Mike Aviles and Salty all in the same lineup, and they're all noted hackers.

[kapsis21]

They are supposed to have a plan B and be able to adapt on the fly. Sitting tight never works. Look at past seasons where we waited for injured stars to return to good health and rescue the team. It doesn't happen. Those teams went down in flames.

 

to have a backup plan for 2 OFers, 2 pitchers and 2 closers.. is just too much dont you think!

 

edit: not to mention Bard went from bullpen to starter so we lost Melancon Bailey Bard... the FO is partially responsible for this mess but no other team has 4 key components missing Ells Bailey Melancon Crawford. i dont count Lackey and dicek as that important but dice-k could be handy bullpen arm.

[a700hitter]

to have a backup plan for 2 OFers, 2 pitchers and 2 closers.. is just too much dont you think!

 

You don't have to replace everyone. That would not be practical, but that doesn't mean that you don't do anything.

[jung]

Interesting comparisons when looking at the totals from after the All-star break in 2011.

 

The team that saw the most pitches per at bat in the AL East for the period from AS break to end season was......... the tampa bay rays....hate....hate....hate

 

Here are the numbers, p/p/ab, post AS break 2011:

Rays, 4.000

Yanks, 3.971

Sox, 3.954

Jays, 3.856

O's, 3.81

 

The Sox actually had their worst two month totals of the year for the months of Aug and Sept but their post All Star break numbers are much bolstered by their July totals which were the highest of the year.

 

I really did not think the team to team would be suggestive of who came on late vs who struggled at least not as closely as they do.

 

What is interesting about the comparisons which I had not done team to team for 2011 before is how the second half of the year worked out and the eventual standings.

[User Name]

Still top three in P/PA and BB for the second half of the season, contradicting your initial assertion.

 

Even if July "bolsters the totals" they count.

[jung]

Well here below is my initial assertion which you yourself quoted and highlighted. How did I contract what I asserted.

 

it does not take much to remember that in reality the Sox really became less diligent in this area from sometime after the 2011 AS Break and remained that way till the last day of the season.

 

I asserted that they became "less diligent in this area sometime after the 2011 AS Break and remained that way until the last day of the season?. Last I checked, August and September come after the All star break. I include the comment about July for informational purposes. Nothing I posted contracted my initial assertion.

[User Name]

Well here below is my initial assertion which you yourself quoted and highlighted. How did I contract what I asserted.

 

 

 

I asserted that they became "less diligent in this area sometime after the 2011 AS Break and remained that way until the last day of the season?. Last I checked, August and September come after the All star break. I include the comment about July for informational purposes. Nothing I posted contracted my initial assertion.

 

How did they become less diligent? Their 3.95 P/PA statistic you just posted is way above the league average 3.75 number. That's what contradicts your initial assertion, which has no statistical validity. A slight drop-off (which could be expected given the loss of Youkilis) does not justify the idea of the team's approach changing.

[jung]

How did they become less diligent? Their 3.95 P/PA statistic you just posted is way above the league average 3.75 number. That's what contradicts your initial assertion, which has no statistical validity. A slight drop-off (which could be expected given the loss of Youkilis) does not justify the idea of the team's approach changing.

 

Well I have to do more analysis to pinpoint the actual numbers but the 26 games that Youk missed in Aug and Sept were not the only games Youk missed all season so you have to account for the other 14 games somehow and I suspect that the only way for his absence in those games to have real statistical relevance is if the Sox were forced to give up something between 3 and 4 at bats per game. A player did play 3rd base on the days that Youk did not and that player did record pitches and at bats. While I suspect that I will find the difference in average p/pa between Youk and a Youk replacement to be significant, maybe as much as 1/4 or 1/3 of a pitch we are talking about that difference bearing on something like 330 pitches over something like 9,000 total pitches for the period.

 

Once you start talking about games that a player did not play you are entirely within the realm of assumption.

[kapsis21]

here is something to ponder on.. if we think we all know more than someone else out there

Tim McClelland in his 4000th game (holy s*** how young did he start) thought he had it all covered and blows a call.

http://mlb.mlb.com/cutfour/article.jsp?content_id=30158744

[User Name]

Well I have to do more analysis to pinpoint the actual numbers but the 26 games that Youk missed in Aug and Sept were not the only games Youk missed all season so you have to account for the other 14 games somehow and I suspect that the only way for his absence in those games to have real statistical relevance is if the Sox were forced to give up something between 3 and 4 at bats per game. A player did play 3rd base on the days that Youk did not and that player did record pitches and at bats. While I suspect that I will find the difference in average p/pa between Youk and a Youk replacement to be significant, maybe as much as 1/4 or 1/3 of a pitch we are talking about that difference bearing on something like 330 pitches over something like 9,000 total pitches for the period.

 

Once you start talking about games that a player did not play you are entirely within the realm of assumption.

 

The problem is that the first/second half P/PA and BB/PA numbers weren't different enough to support any sort of claim about a difference in philosophy. That small differential is easier to attribute to personnel issues, and Youkilis (who has the highest P/PA and BB% of any Red Sox player) would seem like the obvious choice.

[NZSox]

oops wrong thread