Impressions Aviles at short?

[Dojji]

My impression is that so far, Aviles has been an adequate defensive shortstop. Need more time to be sure, obviously, but I thought he's had adequate range and the hands and arm are no worse than Scutaro's.

 

I'd still love to have that real defensive wizard at short, especially with some unprovens in the rotation, but I can't hate Mike Aviles and what he's done there so far.

[SoxSport]

Aviles has done a decent job. And he's provided some pop. The guy can hit some.

 

The question is whether having a top-level defensive SS right now would prevent more runs than Aviles is creating. Plus the possibility of a youngster providing a spark in what is basically a veteran team.

 

That's why it's disturbing to see them bring up a journeyman with "experience" like Repco rahter than a young defensive guy like Lin.

 

You never know what these kids are going to do until you put them in the fire. Look at the Knicks' Lin.

Look at the Celtics' Bradley. These kids got pushed into the starting lineup by injuries, and they surprised everybody and made their teams better.

 

The Sox could use a surprise or two like that.

[jung]

Frankly I don't think Aviles play is adequate at SS. The occasional play that he makes that you would think might be beyond him does not make up for the plays he does not make that are right in front of him.

 

Avlies needs to be playing in some defensive position that does not have the impact of SS. However he is a classic fit for the way the Sox have historically thought about SS.

[Spitball]

Frankly I don't think Aviles play is adequate at SS. The occasional play that he makes that you would think might be beyond him does not make up for the plays he does not make that are right in front of him.

 

Avlies needs to be playing in some defensive position that does not have the impact of SS. However he is a classic fit for the way the Sox have historically thought about SS.

 

What are you basing this on? he has made one error at shortstop in his time with the Sox.

[jung]

There are the plays that are right in front of him that he won't make that are either mental errors not scored or actual errors that are scored.

 

He blew a DP in Detroit. Blown DP's are not scored against the fielder.

 

He allowed that high hopper to bounce in front of him yesterday instead of moving in a couple of steps and taking it on the fly which would have turned that into an out instead of an infield hit.

 

At any rate even watching the way he moves around the position in SS drills suggests he just does not have the physical talents to be an everyday SS. He is a utility player that the Sox have seen fit to have play at SS.

[JohnGreen2004]

How about that fake drop? It was quite obvious, nice effort I guess though.

 

On a more serious note though, he's been serviceable at short but he's lacking range and his hands arent as quick as you'd like them to be. IMO he'd be better suited as a platoon but we don't have that option right now. It's pretty clear the organization views him as a placeholder for Jose Iglesias--whether I agree with that is a discussion for another day.

[RedSoxNC84]

Defensively he seems to be at or slightly above replacement level.. At least hitting in the leadoff slot he looks to be able to get better contact and get on base a little more.

[jung]

I would love to think that Iggy will eventually find his way to Boston but I don't think it will happen. Boston has never at least that I can remember thought about the SS position in terms of the kind of run prevention that a guy like Iggy brings to the table. Boston has always accepted all sort of defensive malfeasance at SS in order to have somebody in the position that could hit. Yet even in the rare instances when Boston has had a SS that can excel and therefore prevent runs, unless he can also hit in the classic sense of Boston SS hitting he is usually run out of town in a year or less. I don't expect that to change for Iggy.

 

I think that before Iggy sees any significant time in Boston he will be traded in some trade that I cannot even envision at the moment. In my opinion, Iggy may be brought up as a means of showcasing him and enhancing his trade potential but that will be it. I also believe that Iggy will play major league baseball but not in Boston at least not for long in Boston.

[Spitball]

There are the plays that are right in front of him that he won't make that are either mental errors not scored or actual errors that are scored.

 

He blew a DP in Detroit. Blown DP's are not scored against the fielder.

 

He allowed that high hopper to bounce in front of him yesterday instead of moving in a couple of steps and taking it on the fly which would have turned that into an out instead of an infield hit.

 

At any rate even watching the way he moves around the position in SS drills suggests he just does not have the physical talents to be an everyday SS. He is a utility player that the Sox have seen fit to have play at SS.

 

He has played 133 innings at shortstop for the Red Sox since coming over from the Royals. He has made one scored error and two identified mental errors. That does not show evidence that "he does not make [sic] that are right in front of him."

 

Sorry but it absolutely does not.

[jung]

Hey you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

 

To me he plays like a utility player that is playing SS. SS happens to be the defensive position where a player can have the most impact on run prevention. Just the fact that we are willing to use terms like "adequate" defensively with respect to that position says something about how wrong headed that entire perspective is, at least in my opinion. However it is the perspective that has permeated the Red Sox regarding SS for as long as I can remember as they have always taken a bat over a glove even in the most important defensive position on the field.

 

It is their team and they can do whatever they want with it. I don't have to agree with it. Although my view of it expressed earlier is that Iggy will never see more than a cup of coffee as a Red Sox SS. Although I do expect him to be a major league SS......just not here.

[Dojji]

So, roughly like Scutaro.

[jung]

So, roughly like Scutaro.

 

I am assuming that you are directing this at my last post so i apologize in advance if I am just plane wrong about that.

 

However if you are, this is one of the biggest problems I have about the perspective that some have regarding both Catcher and SS, Catcher being another pretty important position defensively.

 

Maybe the easier analogy is Catcher because the two guys being discussed are still here or at least are both in the Sox system. However I often hear that Lavarnway should come up because he is already Salty's equal defensively. Maybe Lavarnway should be up. However Salty is a terrible defensive Catcher. He is not good, he is not adequate defensively, he is terrible. Again Catcher is another defensive position where I even have trouble with using a term like adequate. However I don't want Lavarnway to come up just because he is currently as rotten defensively as Salty and has a better bat. If however, Lavs can be brought up and continue to improve and hone his defensive skills here as well as he is able to in Pawtucket, then I would bring him up. No sense in dealing with Salty's defense when Lavs bat is so much better as long as you are not going to impede Lavs progress toward being a good, solid defensive catcher.

 

I so not want to institutionalize or maybe even memorialize poor defensive catching here in Boston by virtue of using Salty as the benchmark.

 

Same is true of Scutero. I would likely have not gotten rid of Scutero at least not for the reasons given. I really don't think the Sox accomplished much of anything moving Scutero and bringing in Avlles and Punto. I would likely have been fine with Aviles but would have used him as the utility player that he is. I probably would not have gotten Punto. But I don't want Scutero used as some sort of benchmark for the SS position.

 

In truth I am spinning my wheels in this discussion...not with you...don't mean that at all. However the Sox have always treated even the really important defensive positions this way. If a player can hit, his defense will be appreciated. If he can't hit and hit well, his defense does not matter even if he is a SS. That is the way it has always been..... before the DH, after the DH, when the pitching mound was higher, almost forever. I don't expect that to change for Iggy and I don't think Iggy will ever improve his hitting to the point where it will be "adequate" from a Red Sox perspective regardless of how good his defense might be. That is why I think Iggy is destined to play elsewhere.

 

Catcher and SS are the only two positions on the field where I think defensive compromises for offensive prowess at the level that the Sox are willing to make them simply make no sense. But as i said, historically, I am swimming upstream with regard to this question and the Sox.

[Dojji]

So, roughly like Scutaro, your main point being that Scutaro wasn't adequate either. Which I'd agree with TBH.

[redsoxbeatz]

Too small of a sample size to really judge him. Looks okay on offense but I big part of me still wants Iggy though that'll have to wait till CC comes up for sure.

[redsoxfan3]

How about that fake drop? It was quite obvious, nice effort I guess though.

 

On a more serious note though, he's been serviceable at short but he's lacking range and his hands arent as quick as you'd like them to be. IMO he'd be better suited as a platoon but we don't have that option right now. It's pretty clear the organization views him as a placeholder for Jose Iglesias--whether I agree with that is a discussion for another day.

 

I think that play was smart. Of course they will not allow him to turn a double play in that situation. The infield fly rule was in effect, but it was at least a smart attempt to get this team two outs instead of one. That stuff is little league material, but still smart baseball.

 

I agree with the points you are making. I would say that he has been serviceable. I think that he will be efficient there until either Iglesias is ready or we actually get a real SS. He is not the best SS in the world, but he does okay out there. His bat is decent and defense is decent.

[kapsis21]

I think that play was smart. Of course they will not allow him to turn a double play in that situation. The infield fly rule was in effect, but it was at least a smart attempt to get this team two outs instead of one. That stuff is little league material, but still smart baseball.

 

I agree with the points you are making. I would say that he has been serviceable. I think that he will be efficient there until either Iglesias is ready or we actually get a real SS. He is not the best SS in the world, but he does okay out there. His bat is decent and defense is decent.

 

i want to know if sun is a factor would that count towards not being an infield fly rule?? how do the umps make that call..?

[SoxSport]

I think the key is upside. You look at the Sox, and they are filled with mediocore veterans who have no upside. The FO apparently prefers experience to talent. Even when the experience sucks.

 

Aviles is a SS reject--a guy who was moved from SS years ago because he didn't have it defensively.

He is basically your good reserve infielder--a guy who can be adequate in the field and hit some.

This apparently is good enough for the FO. The young defensive whiz Iglesias is parked at Pawtucket wondering if he has to hit .300 to ever make the big leagues.

 

Looking through their plodding veteran team, I think an infusion of young talent could help this club.

And they have a few of those in Pawtucket champing at the bit.

[onlybereaved]

I sriusly hate Aviles. Wish he wasn't on our team, period.

 

Everyone hates on Ross, MacDonald, and others...fair, but I hate on Aviles.

 

No care.

[redsoxfan3]

i want to know if sun is a factor would that count towards not being an infield fly rule?? how do the umps make that call..?

 

Actually, I believe the infield fly rule is only in effect when there are runners on 1st and 2nd or when the bases are loaded. I don't think that the infield fly rule was in effect in that situation. However, the umps make the call based on judgment. If it is clear that the player can easily catch the ball when there is a pop fly, then more than likely the infield fly rule will be put into effect. The only thing that I can think of is that Aviles intentionally dropped a ball that he was easily able to catch to try to make two out instead of one, therefore the ump used his judgment to only allow Aviles to get the one out.

[mvp 78]

He's been better than what I expected so far.

[jacksonianmarch]

He was billed as this miserable fielder, but he really isnt. His range is suspect, that's about it. He has a rocket for an arm and he makes the routine plays. He isnt patient and is being used out of the leadoff spot inappropriately. He's an average big league SS, effectively, with above average SS power. He is not the reason why the sox are below .500.

[wyo-sox]

I like him in the line up as ss better than Scutaro. I would give his defense a C+, and his offense a B+ I agree with jacksonianmarch........ he is not the reason we are where we are.

[jung]

I don't think Aviles is a "miserable" SS. He is just not a plus defensive SS and at SS a plus defender can get so much done for you. Look at what Pedey does for us in a position not nearly as noteworthy defensively as SS. I also have come to believe that Aviles is a marginal defensive upgrade to Scuts at SS.

 

Now Salty on the other hand is a miserable Catcher. Salty has got everybody so conditioned to his miserableness that now when he makes what is really a fairly mundane, routine play for any decent Catcher everybody goes nuts because the expectation level is so low. However in Salty's case I will take anything I can get so I even find myself going nuts when he makes a fairly mundane play.

[Soxfan1]

Salty hit for the cycle tonight minus the triple, I wouldn't worry too much...

[Dojji]

Salty will hit, and won't kill you with his glove most nights. This isn't a team that believes in high end defense traditionally so Salty is the kind of catcher you tend to wind up with a lot.

[Bellhorn04]

Salty will hit' date=' and won't kill you with his glove most nights. This isn't a team that believes in high end defense traditionally so Salty is the kind of catcher you tend to wind up with a lot.[/quote']

 

Personally I don't think it's a coincidence that the Red Sox overall defensive numbers, i.e. runs allowed per game, got much worse starting in 2010, the first full year that Varitek wasn't the #1 catcher. I think Varitek was a major factor in the good defensive numbers during the time he was the #1.

[Palodios]

Personally I don't think it's a coincidence that the Red Sox overall defensive numbers' date=' i.e. runs allowed per game, got much worse starting in 2010, the first full year that Varitek wasn't the #1 catcher. I think Varitek was a major factor in the good defensive numbers during the time he was the #1.[/quote']

 

I don't necessarily think it was about Varitek being a good catcher. I think the problem has been more about the catchers who've come after him being very bad.

[Jwmann2]

They were just talking on tv about how big of a mystery he has been. And then he hit his 8th bomb of the season. He's 31 years old, peaking a little late but better late than never.