How about Daniel Bard so far?

[redsoxbeatz]

Are there any reports about bringing DiceK up?

[Dojji]

Take off the blinders. Really.

 

How about YOU not overreact? As bad as he was last night, that's an isolated outing from Bard, and it's the first and only time that he's really gotten himself lit up. I think we need at least one, probably more than one, more start from Bard before we start throwing our hands up and heading for the fire exits. It's not fair after he's been generally adequate up till now to be panicking over this one performance, despite how bad it was.

[a700hitter]

Well that was one' date=' as in uno, as in singlar, very bad outing for Bard.[/quote']He is leading the league in walks. He did not accomplish that with one bad start. His command has been really very bad all season. Look at his strikeout to walk ratio. It's terrible. The Red Sox do not have the luxury of continuing the Daniel Bard project. The Division is a dogfight. They can't afford to give away games to let him develop. Besides his development is going in the wrong direction. One-third of the season has passed. They have been patient enough. I'd let him work with the pitching coach for the next few days to see if they can make a significant adjustment. If not, I'd give Atchison his starts with Morales coming out of the pen for long relief, or Padilla.

[a700hitter]

Are there any reports about bringing DiceK up?

Valentine says that he is not ready. If he is saying that, I have to believe that Dice K doesn't think he is ready. He is the one who stated that he wasn't ready less than 2 weeks ago. He said that he wasn't close. I haven't read that he thinks he is ready after these last 2 starts.

[a700hitter]

Another problem with this Bard situation is that he may not be immediately successful if they move him back to the pen. He has admittedly gotten away from the things that had made him successful. He's not going to be able to snap his fingers and go back to dominating the 8th inning. The longer the Sox wait, the more trouble he will have re- adjusting to the bullpen.

[redsoxbeatz]

Time to pry Hamels from Philly.

[SoxSport]

Time to pry Hamels from Philly.

 

 

The core of the Phillies is the Big 3.

 

With Halladay out, Hamels isn't going anywhere. They'd be fools not to re-sign him. That's their strength.

[SoxSport]

Another problem with this Bard situation is that he may not be immediately successful if they move him back to the pen. He has admittedly gotten away from the things that had made him successful. He's not going to be able to snap his fingers and go back to dominating the 8th inning. The longer the Sox wait' date=' the more trouble he will have re- adjusting to the bullpen.[/quote']

 

As long as the kid can throw 100 for one inning, he can dominate closing or setting up.

 

Readjustment back to one inning shouldn't be as difficult as stretching out as a starter.

Aceves is the type of pitcher who can adjust easily to starter, since he has several good pitches.

 

Bard-Bailey in the back of the bullpen is what you need to contend. They have Doubront solid as #4, and Aceves/Dice-K can fill out the rotation.

 

I might add that the bullpen was weakened considerably with Bard-Pap out of the setup-closing picture.

A pretty dominant pair. Bard-Bailey would have minimized the damage. Instead, they moved Bard as well.

The front office, in my view, has not handled the situation very well. They should have gone with Vs instincts, which was to keep Bard in the BP.

[a700hitter]

As long as the kid can throw 100 for one inning, he can dominate closing or setting up.

 

Readjustment back to one inning shouldn't be as difficult as stretching out as a starter.

Aceves is the type of pitcher who can adjust easily to starter, since he has several good pitches.

 

Bard-Bailey in the back of the bullpen is what you need to contend. They have Doubront solid as #4, and Aceves/Dice-K can fill out the rotation.

He has apparently changed his mechanics to be a starter. If he has changed arms slot, etc. You don't just change back over night. These guys do so many reps to get their mechanics where they want them. The process of changing back is the same. The issue is not that it is less difficult than stretching out to be a starter. Granted that is true, but he has screwed up the mechanics that made him successful in the pen. It wasn't the length of yesterday's game that caused Bard an issue. His lack of command in the 1st and 2nd inning blew up the game. With his current mechanics, there is no reason to believe that he would have been any more successful pitching the 8th yesterday than he was in the first inning. There is a chance that they have screwed him up for a while.

[SoxSport]

He has apparently changed his mechanics to be a starter. If he has changed arms slot' date=' etc. You don't just change back over night. These guys do so many reps to get their mechanics where they want them. The process of changing back is the same. The issue is not that it is less difficult than stretching out to be a starter. Granted that is true, but he has screwed up the mechanics that made him successful in the pen. It wasn't the length of yesterday's game that caused Bard an issue. His lack of command in the 1st and 2nd inning blew up the game. With his current mechanics, there is no reason to believe that he would have been any more successful pitching the 8th yesterday than he was in the first inning. There is a chance that they have screwed him up for a while.[/quote']

 

If he had to change his mechanics so much so to start, it makes you wonder why the hell they did it in the first place. The guy was lights out setup--logical successor to Pap. Seems the management has messed up more than one pitcher in recent years changing mechanics.

[Station 13]

If Bard get his s*** straighten out as a reliever Aceves could fill in as the 5th starter.

[mvp 78]

If Bard get his s*** straighten out as a reliever Aceves could fill in as the 5th starter.

 

Then you'd have no closer. That move would jerk too many people around.

[FredLynn]

If Bard get his s*** straighten out as a reliever Aceves could fill in as the 5th starter.

 

Why would you want to mess with a very successful situation in the pen right now?

Its clear to everyone but Dojji and our FO that the Bard experiment is a failure and must end immediately. However, today there are no reports of him being pulled from the rotation, and I don't think there will be such reports. I am expecting further documentation of the abject stupidity of our FO when Bard starts again on Saturday. Its really what I have been saying here all along: our FO has no clue how to run this club. No, I don't either, but thats not my job, its theirs. And they are failing. They have failed two years in a row and this season teters on the brink of yet another failure while the owners fiddle on their yachts.

[a700hitter]

If he had to change his mechanics so much so to start' date=' it makes you wonder why the hell they did it in the first place. The guy was lights out setup--logical successor to Pap. Seems the management has messed up more than one pitcher in recent years changing mechanics.[/quote']It took a lot of work on his mechanics when they converted him to a strike throwing relief pitcher. It took some time to do the conversion and salvage his career. They had to know that they were risking blowing this guy up altogether with this conversion.

[a700hitter]

If Bard get his s*** straighten out as a reliever Aceves could fill in as the 5th starter.

I wouldn't screw with a role that has been solidified. I'd rather that Atchison and Morales share Bard's upcoming starts until Dice K is ready.

[FredLynn]

I wouldn't screw with a role that has been solidified. I'd rather that Atchison and Morales share Bard's upcoming starts until Dice K is ready.

 

I have a feeling that DiceK "isn't ready ;)" because there isn't a spot for him in the rotation. The abject stupidity of our FO fully intends for the Bard debacle to continue, and they would not insert Matsusaka for any of the other SP. I wonder how much longer it would take DiceK to get ready if one of our SP got injured.

This is BS. Bard needs a DL stint. Everyone knows it.

[mvp 78]

I wouldn't screw with a role that has been solidified. I'd rather that Atchison and Morales share Bard's upcoming starts until Dice K is ready.

 

I think that would be an even worse idea for the bullpen.

[Station 13]

It isn't a terrible idea to move Aceves to the rotation once Bard gets his relieve innings in and he starts to dominate. It might take several weeks, and no, Aceves isn't being move right away. That depends on how Bard does and if Bailey could pitch by July, then I consider Aceves as a closer over and let him get some starts. I seen him pitch 3 innings this year and he absolutely was dynamite. Why not let him take over for Bard or Doubront later this season? Both has inning caps and Bard likely get remove anyway with poor performances. Doubront could be gassed by August. Aceves never seem to have trouble with innings/pitch count, it worth a shot to get him starts at some point. When Bard and Bailey dominate again as relievers, Aceves has to do what he is valuable for, throwing lots of innings.

[a700hitter]

I think that would be an even worse idea for the bullpen.

You think that would be worse than pulling Aceves from the pen. I haqve to disagree with that. I wouldn't totally pull Atch or Morales from the pen. I'd have them pitch 3 or 4 innings each in Bard's scheduled start. They could still be available to pitch a few innings between Bard's starts. Pulling Aceves from the pen would cause tremendous disruption at this point, especially since there is a good chance that Bard will not be very reliable at the outset in the pen.

[OregonBostonian]

Somebody messed this kid up! It seems clear that the plan was for him to be a starter in ST. OK. No problem there. This is what he (Bard) wanted all along. OK. No problem.

 

So, the big question was, how to get him there. Obviously, the decision was to "stretch him out," notching him down to 92mph on the fastball, & changing his arm slot??? Not wise! As a fastball pitcher, who throws 94-97mph consistently, why would you "notch him back" to a very average fastball? A fastball pitcher pitches off of his fastball. Everything flows from there! What the hell were they thinking? Could it be that Bard, the bright young union guy, thought thought that he needed to not it back himself, thus guaranteeing him a long & prosperous career, before he was even established? Could it be that "air of entitlement" rearing it's ugly head again with the starters? Why do I think Beckett was whispering in the kid's ear?

 

Just a theory about the whole rotation I've had for a long time. I see Beckett & Lackey's negative influence on Lester (clear as day), Buch (the kid's a basket case, but let's keep our fingers crossed after his last start:), Bard????, BUT......... thank God there's the language barrier for Dubby He seems unaffected by the Beckett & Lackey negativity.

 

Having said that...... I give it up to Beckett for still KNOWING HOW TO PITCH, & being a fierce competitor when he wants to be!

[FredLynn]

It isn't a terrible idea to move Aceves to the rotation once Bard gets his relieve innings in and he starts to dominate. It might take several weeks' date=' and no, Aceves isn't being move right away. That depends on how Bard does and if Bailey could pitch by July, then I consider Aceves as a closer over and let him get some starts. I seen him pitch 3 innings this year and he absolutely was dynamite. Why not let him take over for Bard or Doubront later this season? Both has inning caps and Bard likely get remove anyway with poor performances. Doubront could be gassed by August. Aceves never seem to have trouble with innings/pitch count, it worth a shot to get him starts at some point. When Bard and Bailey dominate again as relievers, Aceves has to do what he is valuable for, throwing lots of innings.[/quote']

 

Check Aceves' numbers as a starter. He has also not demonstrated success in that role. He is much better in the role he played last year.

[OregonBostonian]

p.s. Aceves stays where he is! In fact, I want him to stay as closer the rest of the year! Bailey? 8th inning set up??? I hate to mess with this BP!

[mvp 78]

You think that would be worse than pulling Aceves from the pen. I haqve to disagree with that. I wouldn't totally pull Atch or Morales from the pen. I'd have them pitch 3 or 4 innings each in Bard's scheduled start. They could still be available to pitch a few innings between Bard's starts. Pulling Aceves from the pen would cause tremendous disruption at this point' date=' especially since there is a good chance that Bard will not be very reliable at the outset in the pen.[/quote']

 

Why f around we the bullpen further. Just get a scrap heap #5 til DiceK/Cook/anyone is ready.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather bring up Germano for 2 starts.

[a700hitter]

I'd rather bring up Germano for 2 starts.

That's a possibility, but which pitcher gets sent down to make room for him?

[youmetaxidermy]

The bullpen is finally stable for the first time this season. Our bullpen is fantastic, in fact, and I didn't think that we would be able to do that so quickly with Papelbon leaving in free agency and all of the drama early in the season with trying to find a pitcher to close. The only logical idea to solve this would be to either bring up Dice-K or possibly chase a trade for someone who could be an answer at least for this season, although I'm trying to figure out who we could tempt with Youkilis and maybe a prospect in a trade for some good quality starting pitching.

[a700hitter]

The bullpen is finally stable for the first time this season. Our bullpen is fantastic' date=' in fact, and I didn't think that we would be able to do that so quickly with Papelbon leaving in free agency and all of the drama early in the season with trying to find a pitcher to close. The only logical idea to solve this would be to either bring up Dice-K or possibly chase a trade for someone who could be an answer at least for this season, although I'm trying to figure out who we could tempt with Youkilis and maybe a prospect in a trade for some good quality starting pitching.[/quote']I think Bobby V has done a great job managing the bullpen.

[youmetaxidermy]

Yeah, he really has. I'm impressed. I knew that once we got past all of the awkwardness and verbal faux pas that he would do wonders for this club, but our issues run much deeper than just managing the bullpen.

[OregonBostonian]

mvp78,

 

I agree! you simply don't mess with the BP! Bring up a guy from the farm to "spell" Bard for a start or two, so he can work it out. With all the reps at his 92mph fastball & new arm slot, he will likely have to go back to that???? I hate it, but that is likely what we see in his next outing. He should be DFA'd to work out his OLD pitching style. He should keep the 95+ fastball, but mix big time. at 92, he's very flat, with absolutely NO MOVEMENT! He also has control issues at 92mph...... This was a monumental screw up! NEVER should have messed with his pitching stye to begin with. Not sure he has the mentality of a starter? For such a "bright guy," he lacks the mental focus to sustain 7, 8, 9 innings. Not me saying he has issues maintaining focus! His words..... over & over. I'm going to take him at his word.

 

Whatever happens with Bard, I pray that Dice-K does not become the answer!!!!

[a700hitter]

mvp78,

 

I agree! you simply don't mess with the BP! Bring up a guy from the farm to "spell" Bard for a start or two, so he can work it out. With all the reps at his 92mph fastball & new arm slot, he will likely have to go back to that???? I hate it, but that is likely what we see in his next outing. He should be DFA'd to work out his OLD pitching style. He should keep the 95+ fastball, but mix big time. at 92, he's very flat, with absolutely NO MOVEMENT! He also has control issues at 92mph...... This was a monumental screw up! NEVER should have messed with his pitching stye to begin with. Not sure he has the mentality of a starter? For such a "bright guy," he lacks the mental focus to sustain 7, 8, 9 innings. Not me saying he has issues maintaining focus! His words..... over & over. I'm going to take him at his word.

 

Whatever happens with Bard, I pray that Dice-K does not become the answer!!!!

I'll ask you the same thing that I asked MVP. If you bring up a guy from the farm to take Bard's starts, which pitcher do you send down to the minors or cut?