Aceves Quote After Latest Choke-Job

[a700hitter]

I really think Morales' date=' Bowden, and Albers all deserve a shot in the later innings. Right now I would only trust Melancon in a game where we are either getting destroyed or doing the destroying. I am a firm believer in trying to get Melancon out there to try to pitch in the later innings again. If he is successful that could be a huge confidence booster and could essentially make him more reliable. I, of course, do not trust him in any situation, but I still think at some point we need to let him have an opportunity in a set-up role again. Aceves has also pitched like s***, but I am still confident that he will get back on track. It is so early on in the season to really make any impulse decisions. I think Melancon and Aceves will be fine. I think Bowden, Morales, and Albers could all be the big surprises this year in the pen. We did face one of the best offenses in baseball our opening series. I think we will be fine. Padilla is looking good. Hill comes back in June. The options to make a trade is there. Our offense is obviously really good. Our starting pitchers will improve. The team is two close games away from being 2-1 and we would not be discussing this at all. It is a lesson learned. Let's forget the past and focus on getting our first W. After all, didn't we start out 2-10 last year? We bounced back just fine (not including September). We will win a lot of ball games this year.[/quote']Albers in the 8th or 9th is a frightening thought.

[BornToRun]

I think ace needs a little more of a leash, a couple games at the most in the closing role. Melancon needs a bit more time too. I like dojii's assessment for the bullpen in general, give it 20 or so games before we try to make definitive judgement

[redsoxfan3]

Albers in the 8th or 9th is a frightening thought.

 

Even more frightening than Aceves or Melancon? I really like Morales in the set-up role and Aceves as the closer, especially if Padilla can be reliable in the long reliever role. I just hope Aceves can get back on track, if he doesn't, I could see us realistically going to Morales as the temporary closer. In my opinion, you have to keep pitching Melancon and Aceves and hope that they pitch better than they did in Detroit. I would really like to see Melancon in the 7th, Morales in the 8th, and Aceves in the 9th. I am not big on Albers, but if Melancon and Aceves both continue to suck, then he might deserve a shot. I am really interested to see how Bowden does this year. I think he will be a nice addition in the pen.

[The Boomer]

I think we have some options; none of them are fully proven but all have some potential. This is a golden chance for Bobby V. to show how he can creatively manage a bullpen based on matchups, situations, and the talent we have on the team already.

[a700hitter]

Even more frightening than Aceves or Melancon? I really like Morales in the set-up role and Aceves as the closer' date=' especially if Padilla can be reliable in the long reliever role. I just hope Aceves can get back on track, if he doesn't, I could see us realistically going to Morales as the temporary closer. In my opinion, you have to keep pitching Melancon and Aceves and hope that they pitch better than they did in Detroit. I would really like to see Melancon in the 7th, Morales in the 8th, and Aceves in the 9th. I am not big on Albers, but if Melancon and Aceves both continue to suck, then he might deserve a shot. I am really interested to see how Bowden does this year. I think he will be a nice addition in the pen.[/quote']Yes, I think Albers is more terrifying than Aceves or Melancon.

[kapsis21]

we need to utilize the Larussa ploy. we dont have a closer, use the best option on a day to day basis.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes' date=' I think Albers is more terrifying than Aceves or Melancon.[/quote']

 

Who do you find more terrifying between Albers and Bowden?

[a700hitter]

Who do you find more terrifying between Albers and Bowden?

Tough call. Albers is definitely terrifying. I haven't seen enough of Bowden to know if he is as terrifying as Albers.

[FredLynn]

Who do you find more terrifying between Albers and Bowden?

 

Easy.

BOTH are more terrifying.

[FredLynn]

I think we have some options; none of them are fully proven but all have some potential. This is a golden chance for Bobby V. to show how he can creatively manage a bullpen based on matchups' date=' situations, and the talent we have on the team already.[/quote']

 

Besides Aceves, who is in the wrong role right now, who exactly out there do you think is talented? Who would you trust in the late innings of a close game? Its easy to pick a guy to pitch with a six run lead, hopefully, but when the game is on the line, besides Aceves and maybe Morales and Padilla, there isn't much talent out there at all. Valentine is no miracle worker. He cannot manufacture gold from manure. I am not giving him a free pass this year, but he can only use what he has been given to work with, and its not much.

[jung]

I would like to give Aceves a little more time but the thing to keep in mind is that he is not failing but degrees in the closer role. He is failing in historic, nuclear fashion. That is also why I am suggesting that it is between his ears, not his arm. He may finally settle in. He may not. However as I have said in other threads he is not pitching. He is throwing.

 

He will definitely still be the closer tonight against the Jays. If he settles in and does a good job, he earns another shot to me. If he continues as he has, I would end this experiment after tonight and move either Padilla or Morales to the closer spot for now.

[The Boomer]

Besides Aceves' date=' who is in the wrong role right now, who exactly out there do you think is talented? Who would you trust in the late innings of a close game? Its easy to pick a guy to pitch with a six run lead, hopefully, but when the game is on the line, besides Aceves and maybe Morales and Padilla, there isn't much talent out there at all. Valentine is no miracle worker. He cannot manufacture gold from manure. I am not giving him a free pass this year, but he can only use what he has been given to work with, and its not much.[/quote']

 

Melancon has benn a full-time closer in MLB. Albers has been fine when not overused. Bowden looked good in his ST outings. They all have talent or they would not be on a MLB roster.

 

The idea that Bobby V. has been given a AAA team to play in the AL East is mistaken. All of these pitchers have had at least limited success in the past.

[jung]

Melancon needs to get some pitching done outside of the closer role and then if he finally stops throwing lollypops he might be the best long term solution at closer in lieu of Bailey. Right now, for whatever reason he is throwing lollypops. In the 9th inning you are facing hitters who's blood is up and who are more focused than at any other time in the game. Throw lollypops up to them and you get the result Melancon has gotten.

 

The difference between Melancon and Aceves is that we know Aceves is great in the middle innings role. Melancon is probably best used in late innings as long as he is not throwing lollypops.

[FredLynn]

Melancon has benn a full-time closer in MLB. Albers has been fine when not overused. Bowden looked good in his ST outings. They all have talent or they would not be on a MLB roster.

 

The idea that Bobby V. has been given a AAA team to play in the AL East is mistaken. All of these pitchers have had at least limited success in the past.

 

Melancon has a career ERA, mostly achieved in Houston. of 3.50. You have to adjust that upward for pitching in the AL and upwards again for pitching in the ALE.

Bowden has a career ERA of 5.65. He hasn't shown us any talent.

Albers has a career ERA of 5.06. He had one half of one good season with us.

I don't see the talent level in the pen you see. Its BELOW AVERAGE. That will not make it possible for even the best manager to pull the rabbit out of his hat.

[SoxSport]

From The Herald:

 

“My feeling? Nothing, man,” Aceves said defiantly. “The season started. There’s nothing we can do. It’s a game, dude. It’s a game. That’s what happened. Some days they hit it, some days they don’t. It’s one series. Even the (New York) Yankees got swept (by the Tampa Bay Rays).”

 

 

Reminds me of the movie "Bull Durham."

 

"Baseball is a simple game. You throw the ball. You hit the ball. You catch the ball.

 

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." :thumbsup:

[The Boomer]

Melancon has a career ERA, mostly achieved in Houston. of 3.50. You have to adjust that upward for pitching in the AL and upwards again for pitching in the ALE.

Bowden has a career ERA of 5.65. He hasn't shown us any talent.

Albers has a career ERA of 5.06. He had one half of one good season with us.

I don't see the talent level in the pen you see. Its BELOW AVERAGE. That will not make it possible for even the best manager to pull the rabbit out of his hat.

 

Even if the true talent level of the BP is below average, I don't think you can characterize the last three games as below average. So then someone must not be using the talent that is there to best effect.

 

Apparently, Bobby V. agrees with me

 

 

PA tweets:

 

Bobby Valentine on the #RedSox bullpen: “I’ve just to manage it better, that’s all I think.

[The Boomer]

Melancon has a career ERA, mostly achieved in Houston. of 3.50. You have to adjust that upward for pitching in the AL and upwards again for pitching in the ALE.

Bowden has a career ERA of 5.65. He hasn't shown us any talent.

Albers has a career ERA of 5.06. He had one half of one good season with us.

I don't see the talent level in the pen you see. Its BELOW AVERAGE. That will not make it possible for even the best manager to pull the rabbit out of his hat.

 

How come these adjustments that you want to make don't need to be made when they hurt your case? Like Melancon and Bowden pitching in the #7 and #3 hitters' parks in MLB? Your ERA is your ERA except when you don't like it; then we need to make adjustments for league and division.

[FredLynn]

Even if the true talent level of the BP is below average, I don't think you can characterize the last three games as below average. So then someone must not be using the talent that is there to best effect.

 

Apparently, Bobby V. agrees with me

 

 

PA tweets:

 

Bobby Valentine on the #RedSox bullpen: “I’ve just to manage it better, that’s all I think.

 

Did you expect Bobby V to just say "Hey, our bullpen is pretty mediocre and lacks the talent to contain good offenses"?

Really?

I say good for him. He may indeed need to manage the pen better, but that doesn't raise the talent level out there. Its pretty well accepted that our bullpen as currently constituted is missing some key parts.

[FredLynn]

How come these adjustments that you want to make don't need to be made when they hurt your case? Like Melancon and Bowden pitching in the #7 and #3 hitters' parks in MLB? Your ERA is your ERA except when you don't like it; then we need to make adjustments for league and division.

 

Melancon may end up being a passable RP. Thats possible.

As for Albers and Bowden, neither has EVER shown any tendency to be consistently good. Thats just a fact. Go ahead and make whatever corrections you like. Both pitchers are really not very good no matter how you measure them.

[seabeachfred]

Melancon has a career ERA, mostly achieved in Houston. of 3.50. You have to adjust that upward for pitching in the AL and upwards again for pitching in the ALE.

Bowden has a career ERA of 5.65. He hasn't shown us any talent.

Albers has a career ERA of 5.06. He had one half of one good season with us.

I don't see the talent level in the pen you see. Its BELOW AVERAGE. That will not make it possible for even the best manager to pull the rabbit out of his hat.

 

As you said Pumpsie, when you have both Albers and Bowden to choose from it is fright night, but why stop there? Put Melandrop into the mix and you have the Three Stooges. Now that is a frightening sight. We won tonight and that's g ood but that loss Sunday is going to stay with me for awhile as it will most likely with you and all our colleagues who aren't wearing rose colored glasses.

 

Maybe Padilla will surface as a consistent bullpen man, and BTW, I think we should strongly consider bringing Cook up from Pawtucket. Our rotation doesn't look so hot either. Bard tomorrow? Keep our fingers crossed.

[User Name]

As you said Pumpsie, when you have both Albers and Bowden to choose from it is fright night, but why stop there? Put Melandrop into the mix and you have the Three Stooges. Now that is a frightening sight. We won tonight and that's g ood but that loss Sunday is going to stay with me for awhile as it will most likely with you and all our colleagues who aren't wearing rose colored glasses.

 

Maybe Padilla will surface as a consistent bullpen man, and BTW, I think we should strongly consider bringing Cook up from Pawtucket. Our rotation doesn't look so hot either. Bard tomorrow? Keep our fingers crossed.

 

Does the possibility exist of you writing a post that doesn't call out those who don't decide to become f***ing hysterical about anything and everything Red Sox related?

 

Pretty please?

[jung]

Clearly the Sox will have to make some choices with regard to the pitching staff because what makes no sense is carrying 13 of them.

 

It is not like they are carrying 13 to use them. They are carrying 13 because they don't know what to expect from any single one of them yet. However it just handicaps them to much. V can't do anything. He really only has two bench players since the 3rd is his backup catcher...backup to Salty. The only title Salty is ever going to compete for is worst catcher of all time. I am sure there are cases when V would like to hit for Salty cause he can't hit and then get him outta' there cause he can't catch. As soon as he hits for Salty and then brings in Shoppach he has used two of his three bench players.

 

So the Sox have got to make some choices about this staff. They do not appear strong enough offensively to just go out there and bash with the best of the bashers which means they need to be able to use more players on occasion in order to win games.

[FredLynn]

Clearly the Sox will have to make some choices with regard to the pitching staff because what makes no sense is carrying 13 of them.

 

It is not like they are carrying 13 to use them. They are carrying 13 because they don't know what to expect from any single one of them yet. However it just handicaps them to much. V can't do anything. He really only has two bench players since the 3rd is his backup catcher...backup to Salty. The only title Salty is ever going to compete for is worst catcher of all time. I am sure there are cases when V would like to hit for Salty cause he can't hit and then get him outta' there cause he can't catch. As soon as he hits for Salty and then brings in Shoppach he has used two of his three bench players.

 

So the Sox have got to make some choices about this staff. They do not appear strong enough offensively to just go out there and bash with the best of the bashers which means they need to be able to use more players on occasion in order to win games.

 

Salty has gotten off to a slow start. I am not his biggest fan. I would like a guy like Avila who beat us a couple of games ago. Salty finished at 12th in OPS among all catchers last year. Interestingly, Lavarnway finished 11th. Salty certainly isn't "the worst catcher of all time" by any means, but Lavarnway needs to be promoted very soon. With some time in the ML he could really blossom into a top tier catcher offensively and probably adequate defensively.

[jung]

OPS only speaks to Salty's hitting. Says nothing for his catching which is truly terrible.

[FredLynn]

OPS only speaks to Salty's hitting. Says nothing for his catching which is truly terrible.

 

In terms of FP he ranked at #30 of 40 last year, but its really not much different than the top 10 in terms of errors. His WAR, if you like those stats, is 0.7, about average. I don't have access here to his defensive rating or % of base stealers thrown out (my guess is that its about average). Worse ever? Not close to that. But we could do better, and we will do better, when Lavarnway is promoted.

[jung]

Hell if this were the Royals I would be dissatisfied with Salty as my catcher...never mind the Red Sox.

[The Boomer]

Does the possibility exist of you writing a post that doesn't call out those who don't decide to become f***ing hysterical about anything and everything Red Sox related?

 

Pretty please?

 

Is that supposed to be a rhetorical question?

[kapsis21]

Hell if this were the Royals I would be dissatisfied with Salty as my catcher...never mind the Red Sox.

 

i have to agree though.

i still am not sure if i hate Salty's ability. he is definitely not the best catcher and till now the only upside has been some offense from him. but he sure sucks when it matters to get a hit.

I want to see Ciriaco come up soon. that guy was dynamite. perfect bench player.

[FredLynn]

Hell if this were the Royals I would be dissatisfied with Salty as my catcher...never mind the Red Sox.

 

Well, the truth is that the Royals had a catcher last year (didn't check to see if he is still a Royal) who finished fifth in OPS for the year, Salty being twelfth. There certainly are catchers who are better than Salty, but that doesn't make him the worst ever. Check out the ESPN stat sheet here:

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/year/2011/position/c/league/al/sort/OPS/qualified/false

 

Its a great site to look up all kinds of things. You may already be familiar with it.

[The Boomer]

Salty has gotten off to a slow start. I am not his biggest fan. I would like a guy like Avila who beat us a couple of games ago. Salty finished at 12th in OPS among all catchers last year. Interestingly' date=' Lavarnway finished 11th. Salty certainly isn't "the worst catcher of all time" by any means, but Lavarnway needs to be promoted very soon. With some time in the ML he could really blossom into a top tier catcher offensively and probably adequate defensively.[/quote']

 

I'd love to have Carlos Santana too, but let's be realistic.

 

Lavs had a "somewhat" (i.e. much) smaller sample size than Salty, so comparing them isn't useful. His defensive skills rate worse than Salty's right now, even if the bat is potentially better. Salty had a slow start last year and came on strong until September, so he should get some more rope IMO.

 

I figured to see him in a platoon with Shoppach once the season starts to roll; that alignment should be good for Salty, who was exhausted at the end of the season and also has a major platoon split vs. LHP.