Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[a700hitter]

It obviously doesnt mean anything, but..

 

The Sox are up 17-0, and Cody Ross has 2 HR and 5 RBI. Solid. At that rate, Ross will match last year's HR production in 7 days and the RBI production in 11 days

But the Sox give the Northeastern kids some very nice goody bags of stuff. I saw them carting the stuff in one year.

[The Boomer]

Fastball. Slider. Changeup.

 

He didn't use his change last year because he didn't need to, but when he did it was very effective. Shoppach said the Rays were talking about how it was just not fair for him to use that pitch last season.

 

Bard has 3 pitches for sure. Just because he hasn't used his change up very much doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

 

The problem is that his change is too fast. FG has is at 90-91 mph, faster than his 84 mph slider. He needs to get the differential between his change and his FB to be at least 10 mph to be effective. 15 mph differential would be even better.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The problem is that his change is too fast. FG has is at 90-91 mph' date=' faster than his 84 mph slider. He needs to get the differential between his change and his FB to be at least 10 mph to be effective. 15 mph differential would be even better.[/quote']

 

That's not true at all. Beckett's bread and butter pitch last season was his change up. According to fangraphs Pitch Values, his change was valued at 7.5 (9th best in the AL) and it had a 4.5 mph variance from his fastball.

 

Felix Hernandez had the best change up in baseball last season, and his changeup had a 4 mph variance from his fastball.

 

If you want hitters to make weak contact, you have to throw something that just barely gets them out on their front foot and throws their balance and weight off, not something that they can get out in front, then have time to adjust.

 

Also, Bard's change up has significant sinking action on it, which helps out a ton.

[Emmz]

Bugs Bunny has the best changeup of all time, just saying guys. 3 Ks on one pitch. Get some!

[User Name]

It doesn't. If anything' date=' the fact that his cited exceptions are not exceptions prove the rule even more.[/quote']

 

This doesn't make any sense. The example was wrong, period. No one even touched the "three pitches to be effective" part of it because it's common knowledge.

 

For the record, i was arguing what i quoted, not anything else.

[The Boomer]

That's not true at all. Beckett's bread and butter pitch last season was his change up. According to fangraphs Pitch Values, his change was valued at 7.5 (9th best in the AL) and it had a 4.5 mph variance from his fastball.

 

Felix Hernandez had the best change up in baseball last season, and his changeup had a 4 mph variance from his fastball.

 

If you want hitters to make weak contact, you have to throw something that just barely gets them out on their front foot and throws their balance and weight off, not something that they can get out in front, then have time to adjust.

 

Also, Bard's change up has significant sinking action on it, which helps out a ton.

 

You are correct, but his change is not highly rated, so something must be up. An alternative theory is that his change mechanics aren't close enough to his FB mechanics and he's tipping the pitch. He has not really thrown it enough to get a good read from the stats, something line 70-80 times last season.

[The Boomer]

Bugs Bunny has the best changeup of all time' date=' just saying guys. 3 Ks on one pitch. Get some![/quote']

 

That was in the deadball era.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You are correct' date=' but his change is not highly rated, so something must be up. An alternative theory is that his change mechanics aren't close enough to his FB mechanics and he's tipping the pitch. He has not really thrown it enough to get a good read from the stats, something line 70-80 times last season.[/quote']

 

Well, first off he rarely used his change up last year, so he didn't use it enough to get any value from it, so that's probably why it was lower, but even so, it was still a league average pitch.

 

And also, I know his change is around 90-91, but this is also a guy whose average FB was at around 97 mph. A 7 mph variance in speed is plenty, especially for a guy like Bard where hitters have to gear up extra early because of his FB velocity.

 

It will be interesting to see how his change is valued, but for right now, I've heard Shoppach, Salty, and others rave about it.

[seabeachfred]

Well, first off he rarely used his change up last year, so he didn't use it enough to get any value from it, so that's probably why it was lower, but even so, it was still a league average pitch.

 

And also, I know his change is around 90-91, but this is also a guy whose average FB was at around 97 mph. A 7 mph variance in speed is plenty, especially for a guy like Bard where hitters have to gear up extra early because of his FB velocity.

 

It will be interesting to see how his change is valued, but for right now, I've heard Shoppach, Salty, and others rave about it.

 

Well that's all I wanted to know Forsyth because last season listening to Orsillo and Remy on my computer I don't think I heard the words change-up and Bard used in the same sentence. In my opinion from my own experience a variation of at least 10MPH is about optimum between a fast ball, hard slider and the change. No matter, at least we know he has a decent one and in the next month I'm sure Bob McClure will be in there pitching his spiel about trying to perfect it. Three effective pitches sure beats two of them any day.

[VA Sox Fan]

a700 was asking in another thread about today's game televised. It wasn't but tonight's is:

 

GAME 2

BOSTON COLLEGE at RED SOX

 

Game time: 7:05 p.m.

 

TV/Radio: NESN / WEEI

 

Red Sox lineup

Mike Aviles SS

Che-Hsuan Lin CF

Kevin Youkilis 3B

David Ortiz 1B

Nick Punto 2B

Ryan Lavarnway C

Josh Kroeger RF

Alex Hassan DH

Jason Repko LF

 

Pitching: Felix Doubront, Junichi Tazawa, Doug Mathis, Chorye Spoone.

[Emmz]

That was in the deadball era.

 

You just don't see the change like that anymore!

[SoxSport]

25-0. What did I predict? 25-2? Close enough. That should push them up in the pre-season power rankings. LOL.

[Spitball]

Back to the pitches needed discussion. It depends. A great fastball can make mediocre secondary pitches effective. It (mostly) depends on ability to locate that fastball. Kevin Brown, for example, had a sinking fastball that he could locate on either side of the plate. It was an awesome pitch and set up his average slider and a split finger which was never thrown for a strike. In many cases, it has more to do with command and location of the fastball setting up the secondary pitches.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Sneak preview of what's to come this season. I don't care if it's vs NE and it's spring training. 25 runs is awesome no matter what.

[Jasonbay44]

Che-Hsuan Lin CF

 

If he has the last name Lin, he must be good. He's probably baseball version of Jeremy Lin.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sneak preview of what's to come this season. I don't care if it's vs NE and it's spring training. 25 runs is awesome no matter what.

 

Before you crown yourselves world series champs, just remember they're a bad college team. Back a decade ago, I was on a team that hung double digits and beat Northeastern twice in one day. Not a big achievement.

[The Boomer]

You just don't see the change like that anymore!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG6WHxvsqq4&feature=related

 

For those interested, here's a super clear version of the entire short:

 

http://www.220.ro/trailer/01-Bugs-Bunny-Baseball-Bugs-1946/PbldKmlPf6/

 

I love how all the players are on the field with cigars. Kind of puts some perspective on beer and chicken. :-)

[mvp 78]

Sneak preview of what's to come this season. I don't care if it's vs NE and it's spring training. 25 runs is awesome no matter what.

 

Per Sean McAdam, the all time score against NU is 95 - 2.

 

Tazawa looked bad against BC. Doubront was ok. Lavarnway can clearly mash bad pitching.

 

Can't wait to see Beckett pitch today...

[SoxFanForsyth]

Before you crown yourselves world series champs' date=' just remember they're a bad college team. Back a decade ago, I was on a team that hung double digits and beat Northeastern twice in one day. Not a big achievement.[/quote']

 

Sure it was a bad college team, but so is the University of South Florida, and the Yankees only hung 11 on them.

 

Look, before you start thinking that I'm saying the Sox are better than the Yanks based on a college game, that's not what I'm saying (although I do think the Sox are as good, maybe better than the Yanks, depends on the 5th man).

 

All I'm saying is that hanging 25 on any team in 7 innings is a pretty solid day. You have to be swinging the bat pretty well to put up those kinds of numbers. I'm sure there were a ton of pitches leaked over the middle of the plate, but the players still have to take advantage of that and make solid contact.

 

It was a great start, especially for the first game of Spring Training.

[jung]

Lets face it, if this had any other way, some Sox fans would be crying in their beer and we would probably have a few gloating Yankee fans happily posting away.

 

Good starts are better than bad starts. I will take this one every day and and twice on Sunday.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Last year, the Sox only put up 13 runs (on 6 hits, no less) on the Huskies, and they were shut out for the first 3 innings (while all the starters were in).

 

It's a great start, like everyone has been saying. After seeing how piss poor this team came out of the game last season, and how it ultimately cost them a run at a WS, I'm definitely happy to see the starters getting good swings.

[VA Sox Fan]

Before you crown yourselves world series champs' date=' [/b']just remember they're a bad college team. Back a decade ago, I was on a team that hung double digits and beat Northeastern twice in one day. Not a big achievement.

 

He wasn't doing that jacko. No need to be a tool.

[VA Sox Fan]

RED SOX (0-0)

Dustin Pedroia 2B

Jacoby Ellsbury CF

Cody Ross RF

Adrian Gonzalez 1B

Mike Aviles SS

Jarrod Saltalamacchia C

Darnell McDonald LF

Will Middlebrooks 5

Juan Carlos Linares DH

 

Pitching: RHP Josh Beckett followed by LHP Andrew Miller, RHP Mark Melancon, LHP Justin Thomas, RHP Tony Pena Jr. and RHP Scott Atchison.

 

Game time: 1:35 p.m.

 

TV/Radio: NESN / WRKO

 

Notes: This is the first game of six between the teams as they vie for the coveted Mayors Cup. They also play tomorrow at Hammond Stadium. ... Minnesota is scheduled to start LHP Francisco Liriano followed by RHP Jared Burton, RHP Esmerling Vasquez, RHP Sam Deduno ad RHP Daryl Thompson.

[SoxFanForsyth]

That's a nice little pitching rotation for today's game. I'm anxious to see Beckett obviously, Miller after McClure has changed his delivery a little to promote better control, and Melancon because he's our 8th inning guy.

 

A couple notable things about the lineup.

 

1. This is the 2nd consecutive day that Ellsbury has hit 2nd. If Ellsbury is going to be in the top 2 of the order, be it Ells - Pedey or Ells - Crawford, it needs to be just that, Ellsbury leading off. I do not like him in the 2 hole, mainly because he is an elite leadoff hitter. Best in the MLB, and I'm not sure we can even get similar production from anyone else.

 

2. This is also the 2nd consecutive day that Gonzo is hitting in the 4 slot. I love this idea. Hitting him 4 where he has a few more RBI opportunities, getting some more run scorers ahead of him, especially now that his shoulder is powered up. I love that move.

 

3. Going back to last night, I thought Doubront threw really well. Great location, and that's in large part due to him landing on his toe rather than his heel (another McClure-ism). He came out after the game and said his delivery "felt awesome", which is great to hear. He was hitting his spots well and he's got a devastating curve.

 

If Doubront is our 5th man, I honestly see an Ivan Nova like year from him this year. Around 170-180 IP, 3.65-.375 ERA, and around 13-15 wins.

[SoxSport]

Sure it was a bad college team, but so is the University of South Florida, and the Yankees only hung 11 on them.

 

Look, before you start thinking that I'm saying the Sox are better than the Yanks based on a college game, that's not what I'm saying (although I do think the Sox are as good, maybe better than the Yanks, depends on the 5th man).

 

All I'm saying is that hanging 25 on any team in 7 innings is a pretty solid day. You have to be swinging the bat pretty well to put up those kinds of numbers. I'm sure there were a ton of pitches leaked over the middle of the plate, but the players still have to take advantage of that and make solid contact.

 

It was a great start, especially for the first game of Spring Training.

 

I can see U South Florida , but what are the BC and NU teams doing down there?

I guess they have to have a pre-season, too, but is that why tuitions are $35K?

Maybe the kids are paying their own hotel bills. I wouldn't be surprised.

[SoxSport]

That's a nice little pitching rotation for today's game. I'm anxious to see Beckett obviously, Miller after McClure has changed his delivery a little to promote better control, and Melancon because he's our 8th inning guy.

 

A couple notable things about the lineup.

 

1. This is the 2nd consecutive day that Ellsbury has hit 2nd. If Ellsbury is going to be in the top 2 of the order, be it Ells - Pedey or Ells - Crawford, it needs to be just that, Ellsbury leading off. I do not like him in the 2 hole, mainly because he is an elite leadoff hitter. Best in the MLB, and I'm not sure we can even get similar production from anyone else.

 

2. This is also the 2nd consecutive day that Gonzo is hitting in the 4 slot. I love this idea. Hitting him 4 where he has a few more RBI opportunities, getting some more run scorers ahead of him, especially now that his shoulder is powered up. I love that move.

 

3. Going back to last night, I thought Doubront threw really well. Great location, and that's in large part due to him landing on his toe rather than his heel (another McClure-ism). He came out after the game and said his delivery "felt awesome", which is great to hear. He was hitting his spots well and he's got a devastating curve.

 

If Doubront is our 5th man, I honestly see an Ivan Nova like year from him this year. Around 170-180 IP, 3.65-.375 ERA, and around 13-15 wins.

 

Lineup-wise, in Bobby I trust. But we really haven't seen the lineup until Crawford returns.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Lineup-wise' date=' in Bobby I trust. But we really haven't seen the lineup until Crawford returns.[/quote']

 

This is why it's so intriguing that Gonzo is hitting 4th.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Before you crown yourselves world series champs' date=' just remember they're a bad college team. Back a decade ago, I was on a team that hung double digits and beat Northeastern twice in one day. Not a big achievement.[/quote']

 

Lol, you're such a hypocrite. For one, I clearly said I didn't care about the fact it was against NE and spring training. I just liked the fact that we scored a lot of runs. How does that translate into WS Champs? Why don't you take your own advice and http://www.talksox.com/forum/talk-sox-forum/16239-cut-crap-2.html. I talk baseball and you start to annoy people by trying to be as pessimistic as possible. You're bringing absolutely no substance to this RED SOX thread. Go have a one man party in your Yankees threads and no one will bother you. And I will not take a midol so don't ask. Good day sir.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

If he has the last name Lin' date=' he must be good. He's probably baseball version of Jeremy Lin.[/quote']

 

Where have you been man? Keep posting dude.

[mvp 78]

If Doubront is our 5th man, I honestly see an Ivan Nova like year from him this year. Around 170-180 IP, 3.65-.375 ERA, and around 13-15 wins.

 

I don't see that happening. That's basically 2nd/3rd starter production for most teams. He'll be lucky to get 10 wins and a 4.25 ERA. He seems like more of an 8-8 4.60 guy right now. Still better than Lackey and Wake.