2 Day Poll-- Pitching Acquisition Prediction

[a700hitter]

It looks like another boring day in an interminably boring Hot Stove season. So, I am going to post another poll out of total boredom. Tomorrow is February 1st and pitchers and catchers will report in 2 weeks. Some of us are still waiting and hopeful of the Sox making a significant roster move or two. Others have given up hope of that prospect. Some think we are just fine the way we are.

 

Oswalt and Jackson are still out there, and there have been contradictory reports about them for a couple of weeks. The FO raised everybody's hopes with the salary dump of Scutaro, because it was reported that the move was meant to clear payroll to obtain a pitcher. We anticipated that a pitching move would be coming soon, but we still don't have a pitcher.

 

This will be a 2-day poll. Just a snapshot of what we are thinking at this moment. No 20-20 hindsight for this poll as circumstances change.

 

P.S. E1, you never vote in these polls. At least you never comment in the threads. We won't hold it against you if you are wrong.

[iortiz]

In the last two polls I voted that we were going to acquire a pitcher before ST. This time I voted neither of them. If they sign someone, the name will be Floyd and with a lot less possibilities Garza, but I guess that it would take at least a week, unless BC has been cooking this trade. We'll see.

[BSN07]

They will add later in the year.

 

Another boring offseason? because they haven't done anything in years.... Your incredible lol. You know one of the main reasons they can't and haven't done anything is because of the money they have tied up in your boy Crawford right? They guy you bitch pissed, moaned and made polls for last off season.

[FredLynn]

They will add later in the year.

 

Another boring offseason? because they haven't done anything in years.... Your incredible lol. You know one of the main reasons they can't and haven't done anything is because of the money they have tied up in your boy Crawford right? They guy you bitch pissed, moaned and made polls for last off season.

 

I think that Crawford will have a good season. Not worth all the money he is being paid, but a decent season. I am more concerned with the STUPID contracts awarded to stiffs like Lackey and Jenks. We also cannot afford Ortiz. What's that add up to? About $35M?

Thanks you Theo Epstein.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

^Fighting words.

 

@BSN

[a700hitter]

They will add later in the year.

 

Another boring offseason? because they haven't done anything in years.... Your incredible lol. You know one of the main reasons they can't and haven't done anything is because of the money they have tied up in your boy Crawford right? They guy you bitch pissed, moaned and made polls for last off season.

I'm incredible?:lol: I'm to blame?:lol: Theo isn't to blame? I would think he probably had a bit more information about team finances than I did. At let me say this, Carl Crawford is far from his biggest mistake. There is a long line of total big money busts that put us in this position. I know that I have self-appointed myself as the King of TalkSox-- a purely cermonial title with no authority, but surely you realize that I have no authority with the Red Sox. Thank goodness I pick up on your sarcasm.

 

Lastly, this off season has been a terrible bore. It's been long and boring.

[a700hitter]

They will add later in the year.

 

Another boring offseason? because they haven't done anything in years.... Your incredible lol. You know one of the main reasons they can't and haven't done anything is because of the money they have tied up in your boy Crawford right? They guy you bitch pissed, moaned and made polls for last off season.

I don't think I made any Carl Crawford polls last season... did I?

[BSN07]

I'm incredible?:lol: I'm to blame?:lol: Theo isn't to blame? I would think he probably had a bit more information about team finances than I did. At let me say this, Carl Crawford is far from his biggest mistake. There is a long line of total big money busts that put us in this position. I know that I have self-appointed myself as the King of TalkSox-- a purely cermonial title with no authority, but surely you realize that I have no authority with the Red Sox. Thank goodness I pick up on your sarcasm.

 

Lastly, this off season has been a terrible bore. It's been long and boring.

 

I'm not blaming you. But you campaigned for him all last winter when alot of us said no way, not at that money, but you didn't care about money then because there was extra to spend. Then when they signed him to that ridiculous deal and now have very little flexability you complain about him. I'm just trying to keep you honest. You wanted him, no matter what the cost was. And now you have to deal with it for another 6 years. So you should be careful for what you wish for, you might just get it. They did exactly what you wanted, and now that it's back fired you need to own up to it and realize that it was a bad move for a player that we already had in Ellsbury. And the Cherry on this Sunday is that Boras will be using CC's deal as a baseline for what he will be asking for JE.

 

But that's always been your issue. Your all about the right now. And don't care how it effects the team the following year or imediate future. Learn from these mistakes man. With no CC there would have been moore money for pitching this off season, more money to potentially extend JE(doubtful consider the Boras factor). Even if Crawford had a decent season he was still not worth the money they gave him and would still be taking up a big chunk of the payroll. It was a bad deal from the start and hopefully this is an example you can learn from that getting the big name right now isn't always the best thing. I mean look at Agon, The Sox missed out on Tex, and instead of blowing that money just to get a name and appease the fans they waited. They got their man and at a damn good price too. Agons deal might be the biggest bargain at the moment in the league considering the deals that were signed this off season.

 

Why am I writing all this? Just incase they don't get any SP's "right now", it's not the end of the world. Maybe if they wait another Agon type deal comes along.

 

I know that makes for a "boring" hot stove, but I'm sure you will survive

[a700hitter]

I'm not blaming you. But you campaigned for him all last winter when alot of us said no way, not at that money, but you didn't care about money then because there was extra to spend. Then when they signed him to that ridiculous deal and now have very little flexability you complain about him. I'm just trying to keep you honest. You wanted him, no matter what the cost was. And now you have to deal with it for another 6 years. So you should be careful for what you wish for, you might just get it. They did exactly what you wanted, and now that it's back fired you need to own up to it and realize that it was a bad move for a player that we already had in Ellsbury. And the Cherry on this Sunday is that Boras will be using CC's deal as a baseline for what he will be asking for JE.

 

But that's always been your issue. Your all about the right now. And don't care how it effects the team the following year or imediate future. Learn from these mistakes man. With no CC there would have been moore money for pitching this off season, more money to potentially extend JE(doubtful consider the Boras factor). Even if Crawford had a decent season he was still not worth the money they gave him and would still be taking up a big chunk of the payroll. It was a bad deal from the start and hopefully this is an example you can learn from that getting the big name right now isn't always the best thing. I mean look at Agon, The Sox missed out on Tex, and instead of blowing that money just to get a name and appease the fans they waited. They got their man and at a damn good price too. Agons deal might be the biggest bargain at the moment in the league considering the deals that were signed this off season.

 

Why am I writing all this? Just incase they don't get any SP's "right now", it's not the end of the world. Maybe if they wait another Agon type deal comes along.

 

I know that makes for a "boring" hot stove, but I'm sure you will survive

I should learn from my mistakes? You are a hoot. The fact that the Red Sox spent like drunken sailors like they had a bottomless pit of money had nothing to do with me. What organization spends itself to the brink fiscally on luxuries and then does a 180 degree about face and institutes an austerity program. An organization that goes from one extreme to the other is an organization that lacks discipline and it is certainly symptomatic of organizational dysfunction. It's not the fault of fans that want to see the best performers, unless you are delusional.

 

Again, Crawford's contract may have been the final straw for the owners, but he is a great talent, and he will play just fine. The reason why there is no flexibility this offseason is because they have $15 million and $8 million tied up in slugs like Lackey and Dice K. They have another $6 million tied up with a useless pig like Jenks. Add to that mix that the Sox will be overpaying Ortiz this up coming season by $3 to $7 million depending on the arbitration. That's a total of $32 million to $36 million. That would have given them a ton of flexibility. Yeah, it's my fault... a fan! Theo screwed things up royally, and Crawford's contract by far is not his biggest mistake.

 

With regard to your Texeira - AGon comment, their contracts are not a lot different and Tex did not cost the Yankees their top pitching and hitting prospect. Oh and Tex helped the yanks win a World Series. AGon choked his way to the finish line in his first season.

 

I'll take your entire post above as sarcasm, because the only other alternative is that you are insane. I do love this ridiculous "appease the fans" arguments that some of you have. Where are the angry mobs of fans threatening the franchise?

[User Name]

What a cop-out.

[iortiz]

I should learn from my mistakes? You are a hoot. The fact that the Red Sox spent like drunken sailors like they had a bottomless pit of money had nothing to do with me. What organization spends itself to the brink fiscally on luxuries and then does a 180 degree about face and institutes an austerity program. An organization that goes from one extreme to the other is an organization that lacks discipline and it is certainly symptomatic of organizational dysfunction. It's not the fault of fans that want to see the best performers, unless you are delusional.

 

Again, Crawford's contract may have been the final straw for the owners, but he is a great talent, and he will play just fine. The reason why there is no flexibility this offseason is because they have $15 million and $8 million tied up in slugs like Lackey and Dice K. They have another $6 million tied up with a useless pig like Jenks. Add to that mix that the Sox will be overpaying Ortiz this up coming season by $3 to $7 million depending on the arbitration. That's a total of $32 million to $36 million. That would have given them a ton of flexibility. Yeah, it's my fault... a fan! Theo screwed things up royally, and Crawford's contract by far is not his biggest mistake.

 

With regard to your Texeira - AGon comment, their contracts are not a lot different and Tex did not cost the Yankees their top pitching and hitting prospect. Oh and Tex helped the yanks win a World Series. AGon choked his way to the finish line in his first season.

 

I'll take your entire post above as sarcasm, because the only other alternative is that you are insane. I do love this ridiculous "appease the fans" arguments that some of you have. Where are the angry mobs of fans threatening the franchise?

Yup, we are clogged. This is not about fans. Think the other way is just insane. They take the blame/credit and costs/money. We only can make opinions, that's all.

 

This is 2009-2011FO/Theo's legacy plus FO/BC's Ortiz horrible move (thus far). Ain't over, but as I've been saying if we end up over the cap and without SS and SP, this will be horrible.

[BSN07]

I should learn from my mistakes? You are a hoot. The fact that the Red Sox spent like drunken sailors like they had a bottomless pit of money had nothing to do with me. What organization spends itself to the brink fiscally on luxuries and then does a 180 degree about face and institutes an austerity program. An organization that goes from one extreme to the other is an organization that lacks discipline and it is certainly symptomatic of organizational dysfunction. It's not the fault of fans that want to see the best performers, unless you are delusional.

 

Again, Crawford's contract may have been the final straw for the owners, but he is a great talent, and he will play just fine. The reason why there is no flexibility this offseason is because they have $15 million and $8 million tied up in slugs like Lackey and Dice K. They have another $6 million tied up with a useless pig like Jenks. Add to that mix that the Sox will be overpaying Ortiz this up coming season by $3 to $7 million depending on the arbitration. That's a total of $32 million to $36 million. That would have given them a ton of flexibility. Yeah, it's my fault... a fan! Theo screwed things up royally, and Crawford's contract by far is not his biggest mistake.

 

With regard to your Texeira - AGon comment, their contracts are not a lot different and Tex did not cost the Yankees their top pitching and hitting prospect. Oh and Tex helped the yanks win a World Series. AGon choked his way to the finish line in his first season.

 

I'll take your entire post above as sarcasm, because the only other alternative is that you are insane. I do love this ridiculous "appease the fans" arguments that some of you have. Where are the angry mobs of fans threatening the franchise?

 

I don't know why I am bothering but, the spent like drunken sailors yes, but you were pining for them to do so, if they didn't you would have called them cheap and accused them of pocketing all the money you give up for them.

 

7/154 and 8/180 is a sizeable difference when talking about payroll and LT. And since when do you care about prospects compared to "proven" MLB players. I think you may be having an identity crisis

 

I agree with Lackey, I never liked the deal and never will. Complain all you want about Dice-K, but as with tex, he hepled the team to a WS title.

 

Just be consistent man. You want them to spend like drunk sailors, because when they don't you claim the owners are cheap and stealing your hard earned money. You got what you wanted in the end. And now that it hasn't worked out don't flip your script and try and kill the FO for making those deals you where begging for.

 

I don't want this to end up as a grease fire, so I'm going to just agree to disagree with you as usual. But that doesn't mean I won't call you out when you change philosophies mid stream to make your argument better.

[User Name]

I don't know why I am bothering but, the spent like drunken sailors yes, but you were pining for them to do so, if they didn't you would have called them cheap and accused them of pocketing all the money you give up for them.

 

7/154 and 8/180 is a sizeable difference when talking about payroll and LT.

 

I agree with Lackey, I never liked the deal and never will. Complain all you want about Dice-K, but as with tex, he hepled the team to a WS title.

 

Just be consistent man. You want them to spend like drunk sailors, because when they don't you claim the owners are cheap and stealing your hard earned money. You got what you wanted in the end. And now that it hasn't worked out don't flip your script and try and kill the FO for making those deals you where begging for.

 

I don't want this to end up as a grease fire, so I'm going to just agree to disagree with you as usual. But that doesn't mean I won't call you out when you change philosophies mid stream to make your argument better.

 

But hey, it's not about the fans amiright? Because the fans can never be wrong and that cop-out is always available.

[iortiz]

I don't know why I am bothering but, the spent like drunken sailors yes, but you were pining for them to do so, if they didn't you would have called them cheap and accused them of pocketing all the money you give up for them.

 

7/154 and 8/180 is a sizeable difference when talking about payroll and LT.

 

I agree with Lackey, I never liked the deal and never will. Complain all you want about Dice-K, but as with tex, he hepled the team to a WS title.

 

Just be consistent man. You want them to spend like drunk sailors, because when they don't you claim the owners are cheap and stealing your hard earned money. You got what you wanted in the end. And now that it hasn't worked out don't flip your script and try and kill the FO for making those deals you where begging for.

 

I don't want this to end up as a grease fire, so I'm going to just agree to disagree with you as usual. But that doesn't mean I won't call you out when you change philosophies mid stream to make your argument better.

 

I wanted A-God. If he shits the bed in the coming years (very unlikely IMO) I'll be the first in pointing it out. You bet.

 

If A-God fails, this must be charged to A-God and the FO, nobody else.

[FredLynn]

We can debate back and forth about how to evaluate talent and how to assign a monetary value to it. Some of us may have thought that Crawford was worth it; some thought he was too expensive. Maybe someone even had no reservations about Lackey.

But in the end, its the GM who has that job. We can afford to be wrong; he can't. In the case of our former GM he was wrong all too often and left this franchise in a financial bind that will take years to get out of.

Epstein was not very good for this team.

[a700hitter]

I don't know why I am bothering but, the spent like drunken sailors yes, but you were pining for them to do so, if they didn't you would have called them cheap and accused them of pocketing all the money you give up for them.

 

7/154 and 8/180 is a sizeable difference when talking about payroll and LT.

 

I agree with Lackey, I never liked the deal and never will. Complain all you want about Dice-K, but as with tex, he hepled the team to a WS title.

 

Just be consistent man. You want them to spend like drunk sailors, because when they don't you claim the owners are cheap and stealing your hard earned money. You got what you wanted in the end. And now that it hasn't worked out don't flip your script and try and kill the FO for making those deals you where begging for.

 

I don't want this to end up as a grease fire, so I'm going to just agree to disagree with you as usual. But that doesn't mean I won't call you out when you change philosophies mid stream to make your argument better.

I've changed philosophies? You are rambling and making no sense other than trying to provoke me. We don't run the team. We are fans. We don't know their finances. This off season they have maintained that they would be willing to go over the LT cap, but they have acted otherwise, and we are hearing that they are already over the cap. None of us knows about their finances or what considerations enter into their budgets. All we know is what moves they make. That's what we discuss. Philosophy? I don't even know what you mean. Changing philosophy? I really don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about. You want to call me out for Carl Crawford? He's played one year of his contract. Let's take the E1 approach and wait and see. I still think he will earn his money if injury doesn't interfere. Again, his contract wasn't the problem this offseason. The problem is the $29 million that they will have to flush down the toilet for Dice K, Lackey and Jenks who will contribute nothing in 2012. There is also the $3 - $7 million that will be overpaid for Ortiz. You want to call me out on Crawford? Go right ahead. If I end up being wrong about him, I didn't have a gun to Theo's head. If he ends up being a mistake, it's still a FO mistake, not a fan mistake.

 

BTW: You want to talk about being consistent? You compared AGon to Tex and when I told you how I viewed the comparison, you change the comparison to Tex and Dice K? I think that is what some would call a strawman. You need to be consistent. Are we comparing AGon and Tex? If you want to turn this into a "grease fire" as you said, go ahead. I have no interest in going down this road. I am here to talk baseball not about what you think of me. Frankly, I could care less about that. I just wanted to know if you thought we would get Oswalt, Jackson, both or neither and possibly the reasons for you opinion. Go blow with the rest of this stuff.

[a700hitter]

7/154 and 8/180 is a sizeable difference when talking about payroll and LT. And since when do you care about prospects compared to "proven" MLB players. I think you may be having an identity crisis

Other than length, one contract has an average annual value of $22 million and the other $22.5 Million. I am still not seeing the big difference.

 

As far as your comment about prospects, I do think the highest and best use of prospects is to trade them for stars, but if you can get the same star for the same $ without throwing in the prospects, I would rather just pay the money and keep the prospects to trade for some one else. Is that so hard for you to understand?

[a700hitter]

I voted that we will get neither. Unless all the reports are posturing for the negotiations, it doesn't seem like they are very motivated to get either of these guys.

[iortiz]

Other than length, one contract has an average annual value of $22 million and the other $22.5 Million. I am still not seeing the big difference.

 

As far as your comment about prospects, I do think the highest and best use of prospects is to trade them for stars, but if you can get the same star for the same $ without throwing in the prospects, I would rather just pay the money and keep the prospects to trade for some one else. Is that so hard for you to understand?

 

Agree.

 

I have no idea how this Oswalt/Jackson/Floyd drama is going to end up but if they trade for Floyd and pay him something around Kuorda's/Oswalt's 2012 money anyway, why in the hell give up top prospects for him?, regardless in our farm, there's no abundance of them (top prospects) these days and this guy Floyd is not a super star.

 

Of course, all this is speculation.

[SoxSport]

I still think there's a chance they get Garza--as some kind of package deal which includes Epstein plus players. LL has pushed for Garza from the outset, and a deal is still possible if Selig gets behind it.

 

I don't like Oswalt or Jackson. They can probably do just as well with what they have, and a lot cheaper.

They have enough overpaid pitchers.

[a700hitter]

I still think there's a chance they get Garza--as some kind of package deal which includes Epstein plus players. LL has pushed for Garza from the outset, and a deal is still possible if Selig gets behind it.

 

I don't like Oswalt or Jackson. They can probably do just as well with what they have, and a lot cheaper.

They have enough overpaid pitchers.

Garza makes more than they have been offering Oswalt and Jackson, plus he has put in for a big award in arbitration. I can't see there being a deal for Garza until the arbitration issue is settled.

[BSN07]

A700, I only mentioned Dice-k to tex because you mentioned that even tho tex hasn't been great it was ok cause he helped bring a ws title to ny, as did dice-k.

[Spudboy]

I still think there's a chance they get Garza--as some kind of package deal which includes Epstein plus players. LL has pushed for Garza from the outset, and a deal is still possible if Selig gets behind it.

 

I don't like Oswalt or Jackson. They can probably do just as well with what they have, and a lot cheaper.

They have enough overpaid pitchers.

 

This is how I feel almost exactly. I really do not understand what a possible Garza deal would entail but I believe it is the best possible SP acquisition.

 

I voted neither.

[a700hitter]

A700' date=' I only mentioned Dice-k to tex because you mentioned that even tho tex hasn't been great it was ok cause he helped bring a ws title to ny, as did dice-k.[/quote']Tex's first year for the Yanks was a carbon copy of AGon's with the Sox, except Tex helped the Yanks win a Championship while AGon choked his way down the stretch for us. You had made a statement that AGon was a much better deal than the Tex deal. I don't know what Dice K has to do with Tex?

[User Name]

Ooooh.....so A-Gon choked down the stretch for us last year hitting a measly .318 /.455/ .523 .977 OPS in September.

 

What a choker!

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Ooooh.....so A-Gon choked down the stretch for us last year hitting a measly .318 /.455/ .523 .977 OPS in September.

 

What a choker!

 

Quoted for truth and for a700 to see. The only thing really is the HR production which to me isn't a big deal.

[Bellhorn04]

Ooooh.....so A-Gon choked down the stretch for us last year hitting a measly .318 /.455/ .523 .977 OPS in September.

 

What a choker!

 

How about Teixeira's postseason numbers for the Yanks?

 

27 games

.170 batting avg.

.302 slugging pct.

 

A real Mister Clutch!

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Different situation.

[Bellhorn04]

Different situation.

 

Not entirely. The postseason is an extension of 'down the stretch' IMO.

[User Name]

For the record, Teixeira has had OPS's of .756 and .694 in Sept/PO in 2011 and 2010 respectively. Clutch!!!!! (He did have a monster 2009 though).