Hanley?

[BSN07]

Haven't been on much lately, figured I'd swoop in and stir the pot/swat the wasp nest. Not sure if this has been talked about(probably has, don't have time to go through 20 pages in the off season thread),

 

In some circles, it might seem impossible for Hanley Ramirez to line up next to Jose Reyes in the Marlins infield. People in the industry and people close to Ramirez keep telling me that he wants to stay at shortstop. Let's drop the pretense: Trading Ramirez is the Marlins' logical next move, one that could make the team even stronger. ... The Sox need two starting pitchers and a closer far more than a shortstop, but surely they would be tempted to reacquire Ramirez. Shortstop Marco Scutaro is eminently available, but the Marlins' goal in any Ramirez trade would be to acquire a big bat and a starting pitcher. Third baseman Kevin Youkilis could be the bat. The pitcher? Not so clear.

 

FOXSports.com

 

A Youk for Hanley deal straight up would not work. But if the Sox and Marlins got creative I could see a match. A deal of Youk+Lowrie+SP prospect(Someone like Ranaudo) for Hanley and Nunez(or whatever the hell his name is) could work IMO. I'm not saying this is a certain package to get it done. But if things go South in Miami it could be an interesting one. You can plug and play with some different names, but Youk for Hanley is the center. Ya playing Hanley at SS may be brutal to watch sometimes, but I think I could stomach it. If they can get Hanley I would play him at SS and play Middlebrooks/Scuataro at 3B. I understand Middlebrooks is young and it may be rushing him. But if he can play a good 3B that would be enough with the offense they already have in place.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Hanley

Ortiz

Crawford

Salty

Reddick/Rf'er

Middlebrooks is a solid line up.

 

Plus once Nunuez(I'm too lazy to go search his real name) get's his stuff sorted would be a nice addition to the BP and possible CL option if Bard really does go to the rotation.

 

 

Let the fireworks begin

[mvp 78]

No way do the Marlins make that trade.

 

Bringing in Hanley would be nice, but his lack of hustle would be scorned by Sox fans. I don't see it happening.

[SoxSport]

Hanley's admirer, Epstein, is gone now, so there isn't as much passion in the FO for him.

Besides, his offense has been in decline the last few years, and Iglesias is no more than a year away- regardless of how he hits.

[a700hitter]

Hanley's admirer, Epstein, is gone now, so there isn't as much passion in the FO for him.

Besides, his offense has been in decline the last few years, and Iglesias is no more than a year away- regardless of how he hits.

and Epstein has a SS in Castro so he has no need for him in Chicago.

[Emmz]

Hanley is a half-assing idiot with attitude problems. He's got great talent obviously, but Youk is better at this point from what I've seen. Hanley's obviously still got upside that Youk doesn't, and if he plays like he can, IMO he is one of the best players in baseball. Think of it though, a guy who's proven to have consistent 25-30 HR power, can hit well over .300 and steal 30 bases or more with his speed. He's still got that talent, he's just looked silly lately though.

 

Sort of tempting, but it's a huge risk. He also put on all this weight so he could be a power hitter, and it effected his swing. Can he find his old swing? Lots of questions involved when you think about going after Hanley. We could very well have Hanley being Hanley s***. I can see it now.

[jung]

That is one huge difference between the NFL and MLB. You can take a chance on guys like Haynesworth and Ocho and get away with it because you can just cut them....just like that. Alvin turned out to be fat useless jackass (what else is new). See ya' Alvin.

 

Can't really do that in baseball.

[SoxSport]

That is one huge difference between the NFL and MLB. You can take a chance on guys like Haynesworth and Ocho and get away with it because you can just cut them....just like that. Alvin turned out to be fat useless jackass (what else is new). See ya' Alvin.

 

Can't really do that in baseball.

 

The NFL is the only major sport with a sense of parity--no big market bias, as exists in MLB and the NBA. The key is a hard salary cap, and non-guaranteed contracts. The players don't like this, and the TV people don't, either. They want the big markets to dominate, to max out their advertising revenues. You even see that in the NFL, where the two NY teams, the Giants and the Jets, have been showcased in almost every network night game this season.

In the NBA, Stern is fighting hard to keep NY and LA from dominating--but he also has to consider TV interests--which want the big markets to dominate. In MLB, Pujols followed the money--to LA--where the Angels will get $100 mil more TV revenue per year for the next 20 years from a new Fox contract. That paid for Wilson and Pujols. TV dominates.

[boy racer]

No way do the Marlins make that trade.

 

Bringing in Hanley would be nice, but his lack of hustle would be scorned by Sox fans. I don't see it happening.

 

He doesn't belong on the Red Sox, I agree.

[Northern Star]

Do not want. I wouldn't even take him for free. OK, yes I would, but only to flip to another team.

[Emmz]

The Sox would never have those titles without Manny though. Sometimes there's enough talent involved where you can tolerate that crap.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's coming off an injury riddled season. If healthy, he's a top 10 player in the game. And the Marlins would need to be compensated as such

[jung]

The Sox need another head case now like they need a hole in the wall. This ain't the Sox of Manny being Manny days.

[Soxfan1]

Can we just trade Youk and Beckett for Annibal and Hanley? I'm pretty sure Ben called tradebacks and this is close enough.

[SCM33]

The Sox would never have those titles without Manny though. Sometimes there's enough talent involved where you can tolerate that crap.

 

It wasnt necessarily Mannys talents that allowed him to be tolerable. It was the talent and identity of the players that surrounded him.

 

As the Damons, Millars, Muellers, Pedros, Schillings, Timlins and Embrees of the team faded away.....Manny could in fact really be Manny......which as it turned out, was an *******.

[a700hitter]

Can we just trade Youk and Beckett for Annibal and Hanley? I'm pretty sure Ben called tradebacks and this is close enough.

A move like that could really put the Marlins over the top in 2012.

[Palodios]

No.

 

This team has too many divas, and too many bad personalities. What this team needs to do is hold onto guys like Scutaro who hustle, and have to fight for their jobs. Having ten guys on the payroll making 10 million or more is bad for team chemistry, and they should realize by now that they're not the Yankees.

[mvp 78]

The Sox would never have those titles without Manny though. Sometimes there's enough talent involved where you can tolerate that crap.

 

Manny didn't hustle, but he wanted to win. I doubt he would have been content playing on a sub .500 team. Hanley is happy putting up numbers on a bottom feeder.

[jung]

Good point folks. I think if you remember, when it was all coming to an end for Manny in Cleveland the relationship between Manny and Guardians Management was really going downhill. Manny did not think they were doing enough to maintain a winning profile there and he was really not interested in staying.

 

He had his complaints here as well but less about the progress the team was making and more about just well Manny being Manny.

[seabeachfred]

Hanley Ramirez has a lot of talent and has produced in the past, but he is a real head case and more interested in Hanley than his team. With him, it's me me me me!!!!!! Do we want to even risk someone like this on a team that badly needs to reinvent itself as a "all for one, one for all" as we saw in '04 and

'07? I know I dont. Let Ramirez stay where he's at. We have enough morale problems as it is for Bobby to sort through. We don't need another one. Besides, Scutaro is a good team player and one of the very few Red Sox players who didnt crash with the team last September.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You all can say what you want about HanRam and how he doesn't hustle and is a head case, but I guarantee that each and every one of you would be beyond thrilled to have his bat in the lineup every night.

 

I'd take HanRam over Youk any day of the week. I'd throw Youk + Doubront/Weiland for him and if it stuck, I'd take it. I wouldn't overpay, though.

[Emmz]

Youk's been the better hitter for the last 4 years dude.

 

Yeah he can steal bases, but he also f***ed up his swing by trying to bulk up, and is a half-asser.

 

That's a legitimate mechanical flaw that I'd like to see fixed before I trade a better hitter for him, that's just silly IMO.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Youk's been the better hitter for the last 4 years dude.

 

Yeah he can steal bases, but he also f***ed up his swing by trying to bulk up, and is a half-asser.

 

That's a legitimate mechanical flaw that I'd like to see fixed before I trade a better hitter for him, that's just silly IMO.

 

Youk is 33 and hasn't played 140 games since 2008. He's averaged 119 games/season over the past 3 years.

 

HanRam is 28 and missed 140 games for the first time in his career last year.

 

Like I said, I'll take HanRam over Youk any day. And when I say that, I mean going forward, HanRam is going to be the more productive player.

[Emmz]

Hanley has the upside no doubt, definitely healthier too, but that's just too big a risk to give up one of your best hitters for.

[Laser Show]

I'd take Hanley over Youk every day of the week.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hanley has the upside no doubt' date=' definitely healthier too, but that's just too big a risk to give up one of your best hitters for.[/quote']

 

Youk has been an epic disappointment the past 2 seasons in terms of health. I mean sure - he's a great hitter, but he's only a great hitter for 68.5% of the season (111 average over the past 2 years).

 

When healthy, Youk is an exceptional hitter. But he's always griping at the umpire, wincing in pain, etc. It's an old act. And as he ages, the probability of him returning to 2008 form is less and less likely.

 

Trading for a guy who has consistently played 150+ games/season in his career, puts up nearly identical numbers in terms of power in a less hitter-friendly park, and steals 25-30 bags a year is not at all a risk in my mind.

[Emmz]

Youk played better last year and the years leading up to. For someone who's so bothered about downward trends, you're pretty sure about Hanley. You should make up your mind what you do and don't consider trending down.

 

I actually would be in favor of it if they could fix the swing issue right away. All last season his swing was terrible because of that weight he put on to be more of a power hitter. That's why he was so bad last year, I said it earlier, it's the swing/weight issue. The thing is that Hanley's a head case, and if he doesn't want to do something he won't do it. He doesn't want to play 3B for the Marlins so he wants a trade. He doesn't feel like hustling, he doesn't do it. I don't see how that's not a concern for fixing his swing and losing the weight he put on.

[Emmz]

Youk has been an epic disappointment the past 2 seasons in terms of health. I mean sure - he's a great hitter, but he's only a great hitter for 68.5% of the season (111 average over the past 2 years).

 

When healthy, Youk is an exceptional hitter. But he's always griping at the umpire, wincing in pain, etc. It's an old act. And as he ages, the probability of him returning to 2008 form is less and less likely.

 

Trading for a guy who has consistently played 150+ games/season in his career, puts up nearly identical numbers in terms of power in a less hitter-friendly park, and steals 25-30 bags a year is not at all a risk in my mind.

 

Never disagreed with any of that, but you're trading a health risk who can hit but at least tries for a risk who may or may not try, but is healthier, younger, and defiintely has the upside.

 

By all means I'm in favor of cutting ties with aging players, but for someone like Hanley is a risk in itself.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont think the sox and the marlins even come close to matching. The Marlins will want two things, one of which the sox dont have. Youk would make sense as he's a 3b, but his injury history of late and the fact that he would be playing a wearing position at age 33 after a bunch of wear and tear injuries doesnt make him too attractive. The other thing the Marlins will want is MLB starting pitching, something that the sox cannot move