2012 Who will be our manager?

[redsoxfan3]

It doesn't matter if its for next year or 2013 . that lineup would not make the playoffs.

 

That lineup would not make the playoffs next year, but how do you know it would not for 2013? If Crawford and Youk get back on track offensively, we have Ells, Pedey, Gonzalez, Youk, and Crawford all good offensively. That is five players that are all veterans in 2013 that can lead this team. Salty will be decent offensively, nothing great, but nothing horrendous. Then we have Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Kalish, and possibly Iglesias. What I am saying about those guys is that they have the potential to start if they progress. Iglesias needs to improve offensively. Lavarnway needs to improve defensively. He is there offensively as a DH, but time will tell if he will be able to stay consistent offensively. Kalish will be fine if he recovers from his injury. Middlebrooks needs to have a solid year in the minors to even get a shot in 2013, we might see him in 2012 during September callups. This is a potential lineup. I am not sure if you understand what that means. But, I am not saying at all that this will be the lineup. Your logic does not make sense. It has the potential to be a good lineup in 2013. Go to dictionary.com and look up the word potential. That lineup does have the potential to make the playoffs in 2013, that does not mean it will be the lineup or does not mean that we will make the playoffs, but we could. In 2012 that will not be the lineup and that lineup would not make the playoffs. That is the difference. All of these players would have to reach their max potential to make that lineup happen, if not that lineup can be thrown out the door.

[jung]

Never know. I am guessing this extra wild card thing is actually going to happen and if so, I would think that something like 88+ or 90+ wins in 2012 actually gets you into that wild card round. If they do go down that road and make it best of 3, if you had a stud at the top of the rotation, you could get out of that round and at least be in. If it was best of 3 you could potentially even have your stud ready for game 1 of the next round. However if they do make that wild card thing a 1 game playoff then you will likely use up your stud SP there and be at a big disadvantage going into the next round.

[a700hitter]

Never know. I am guessing this extra wild card thing is actually going to happen and if so' date=' I would think that something like 88+ or 90+ wins in 2012 actually gets you into that wild card round. If they do go down that road and make it best of 3, if you had a stud at the top of the rotation, you could get out of that round and at least be in. If it was best of 3 you could potentially even have your stud ready for game 1 of the next round. However if they do make that wild card thing a 1 game playoff then you will likely use up your stud SP there and be at a big disadvantage going into the next round.[/quote']If they go to a second wild card team, they will likely play a 1 game elimination, because there is not enough time to play a round of 3 games. They play until the end of October as it is. I don't think they want the World Series being played in November.

[jung]

I think you are right. It will be 1 game. Could be tough to make that work unless you next opponent was unable to set up his rotation either.

[a700hitter]

I think you are right. It will be 1 game. Could be tough to make that work unless you next opponent was unable to set up his rotation either.

It will put a lot of pressure on teams to win their Divisions, which is the way it should be.

[jung]

Yea funny how the dif between a 3 game series and a 1 game play-in changes the perspective. If it were a 3 game series, it probably diminishes a little from the division crown and if it is a 1 game play-in, it enhances the division crown.

[SCM33]

That lineup might finish behind Toronto. I think posters don't understand that the Sox FO needs to take some bold actions to return this team to prominence quickly. They can't afford a carryover of 2011 into next season or beyond. They have already made sweeping changes in management. I think there will be some very interesting player moves too. Nothing would surprise me. Maybe they get Jose Reyes. Maybe C.J. Wilson. Maybe both. Maybe Yadier Molina. The Cherrington statement about looking for inexpensive value is posturing IMO to keep the press and the fans at bay. They always lower expectations in this fashion. It means nothing.

 

Exactly. A simple band aid will likely end in ANOTHER third place finish.

 

Reyes doesnt make much sense though. They just re-upped Scutaro, so unless you move Scutaro to 3B and make Youk the DH it wont work......and essentially that would be replacing the production of Ortiz with Reyes which, while Reyes is a great player, Ortiz gives you more.

 

I think the Sox need to start looking for a replacement at 3B for Youkilis as I have been saying all offseason. Hes missed too many games over the last 2 years, and lets face it....hes getting older and wider while playing a more physically demanding position than 1B/DH, so expect more of the same.

 

To me, the major needs we need to complete this overhaul.....

 

CF...not by choice, but Ellsbury packaged with Beckett, could bring in a high return. Could bring in a real #1.

 

3B....time to seriously consider a replacement.

 

RF...not sure if Kalish is ready to just hand it over. Bring someone in, a decent RH bat to compete with him. Kalish might play a little CF if Ellsbury is dealt anyway.

 

C.....a real catcher please, not someone just plugging the hole aka a band-aid.

 

SP......Bring in 2 or 3 Starting Pitchers (Beckett creates this hole if dealt, worth it with right package)

 

RP......all of them minus Papelbon (and assuming Aceves gets a shot in the rotation). Bard can pack up his s*** and be packaged in a deal with Iglesias, Lowrie, Reddick, Bowden and see what that returns.

 

Bench....see ya later Lowrie and Mcdonald and even Salty if they bring in a real #1 catcher. I cant see them sticking Lavarnaway in the minors again next year. Lavarnway has already proven more offensively than Salty has in the minors.

 

Bring in a right handed hitter who can hit in the middle of the lineup (5th or 6th).

 

Blow it up please. Do not put a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches.

[a700hitter]

Exactly. A simple band aid will likely end in ANOTHER third place finish.

 

Reyes doesnt make much sense though. They just re-upped Scutaro, so unless you move Scutaro to 3B and make Youk the DH it wont work......and essentially that would be replacing the production of Ortiz with Reyes which, while Reyes is a great player, Ortiz gives you more.

 

I think the Sox need to start looking for a replacement at 3B for Youkilis as I have been saying all offseason. Hes missed too many games over the last 2 years, and lets face it....hes getting older and wider while playing a more physically demanding position than 1B/DH, so expect more of the same.

 

To me, the major needs we need to complete this overhaul.....

 

CF...not by choice, but Ellsbury packaged with Beckett, could bring in a high return. Could bring in a real #1.

 

3B....time to seriously consider a replacement.

 

RF...not sure if Kalish is ready to just hand it over. Bring someone in, a decent RH bat to compete with him. Kalish might play a little CF if Ellsbury is dealt anyway.

 

C.....a real catcher please, not someone just plugging the hole aka a band-aid.

 

SP......Bring in 2 or 3 Starting Pitchers (Beckett creates this hole if dealt, worth it with right package)

 

RP......all of them minus Papelbon (and assuming Aceves gets a shot in the rotation). Bard can pack up his s*** and be packaged in a deal with Iglesias, Lowrie, Reddick, Bowden and see what that returns.

 

Bench....see ya later Lowrie and Mcdonald and even Salty if they bring in a real #1 catcher. I cant see them sticking Lavarnaway in the minors again next year. Lavarnway has already proven more offensively than Salty has in the minors.

 

Bring in a right handed hitter who can hit in the middle of the lineup (5th or 6th).

 

Blow it up please. Do not put a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches.

if they bring in Reyes, I was thinking that Scutaro would be a solid utility player. He can paly 2nd, 3rd or SS. He'd get plenty of playing time with Youk's frequent injuries.

[SCM33]

if they bring in Reyes' date=' I was thinking that Scutaro would be a solid utility player. He can paly 2nd, 3rd or SS. He'd get plenty of playing time with Youk's frequent injuries.[/quote']

 

Scutaro is better than a utility player and did nothing to deserve that role.

 

Scoots can play 3B, which means we need to upgrade the offensive output out of RF from a year ago (which was almost nothing).......that, or we could see if Reyes would play CF and Scutaro can play SS....although that's quite a stretch/fantasy. This scenario also means that Youkilis and Ellsbury are not members of the team next year and their returns might be worth considering.

[jung]

I think all Scuts did is played in anonymity in places like Oakland and Toronto and suffered to some extend from being versatile enough to move around the infield. However he has rung up a fair number of errors at SS over his career and I really think if there is one thing that has actually hurt him it is that. That is where he has played the most games and he really has rung up a lot of errors there.

 

It almost makes me wonder if he would have achieved more respect if he just stuck someplace as a 2nd baseman instead of always being thought of as this guy that can play 3 infield positions but somehow always finds his way to SS. He does not even get an honorable mention ever for his fielding at any infield position.

[seabeachfred]

It will put a lot of pressure on teams to win their Divisions' date=' which is the way it should be.[/quote']

 

It is the way it should be 700 but that is not the way it has been with the Red Sox during the Epstein regime. All I ever heard from that guy was to win 95 games and get in the Playoffs, the division crown not all that important. It was like he had visions of 2004 dancing in his head, but the lone division title we won since I became a Red Sox fan 11 years ago was pretty instrumental in helping us win it all in 2007 since we did get home field advantage for that Cleveland series and we all saw what we did in those last two games at home. Something tells me it might have been different if we had to play those games in Cleveland seeing how poorly we played there two of the three games.

 

Unless the Yankees go out and sign the universe this winter and the Rays retool offensively some retooling of our own could net us the AL East next year for a change. Something in the back of my head keeps telling me that ownership wants the 100th Anniversary of Fenway Park to be a memorable season. I sure as hell hope so.

[a700hitter]

Scutaro is better than a utility player and did nothing to deserve that role.

 

Scoots can play 3B, which means we need to upgrade the offensive output out of RF from a year ago (which was almost nothing).......that, or we could see if Reyes would play CF and Scutaro can play SS....although that's quite a stretch/fantasy. This scenario also means that Youkilis and Ellsbury are not members of the team next year and their returns might be worth considering.

To quote myself in Unforgiven, "Deserves has nothing to do with it." If the Sox can fit Reyes into their budget and they think they need him to improve the team, Scutaro would be a pretty good utility player whether he deserves it or not.

 

Reyes would never sign with us if he wasn't going to play SS. Scutaro has played a little OF, and I'm sure that he could handle LF at Fenway. Crawford's speed would be better utilized in spacious RF. Scutaro would be the guy who would change positions not Reyes. Between platooning in the OF and playing 3 IF positions, Scutaro should get 450 ABs. I'm liking the idea. Take note Ben. You'd serve yourself well to consider some of the stuff we come up with here. Even Doji has the occasional good idea. JK Doji.

[a700hitter]

It is the way it should be 700 but that is not the way it has been with the Red Sox during the Epstein regime. All I ever heard from that guy was to win 95 games and get in the Playoffs, the division crown not all that important. It was like he had visions of 2004 dancing in his head, but the lone division title we won since I became a Red Sox fan 11 years ago was pretty instrumental in helping us win it all in 2007 since we did get home field advantage for that Cleveland series and we all saw what we did in those last two games at home. Something tells me it might have been different if we had to play those games in Cleveland seeing how poorly we played there two of the three games.

 

Unless the Yankees go out and sign the universe this winter and the Rays retool offensively some retooling of our own could net us the AL East next year for a change. Something in the back of my head keeps telling me that ownership wants the 100th Anniversary of Fenway Park to be a memorable season. I sure as hell hope so.

I don't understand all of the Theo idolatry on this forum. One Division title in 9 years is not a great record. In 2004 after signing Schilling and Foulke, I was confident going into the season that we would win the division. But for some last minute miracles, i.e. the Bloody Sock game and two reversed umpire calls there is no Championship. We should have won the Division in 2005 and 2011 too, but we didn't. He won once -- the same number of times that Duquette won in a shorter time frame. In the 80's when there wer only 2 divisions and no wild card, the Sox won 3 Division Titles. All in all the results from Theo fell below the expectations that I had after 2004.

[Dawgma]

Can you imagine if Joe Madden was or Manager... We'd go 50 over.

I want Madden!

[Dawgma]

I don't understand all of the Theo idolatry on this forum. One Division title in 9 years is not a great record. In 2004 after signing Schilling and Foulke' date=' I was confident going into the season that we would win the division. But for some last minute miracles, i.e. the Bloody Sock game and two reversed umpire calls there is no Championship. We should have won the Division in 2005 and 2011 too, but we didn't. He won once -- the same number of times that Duquette won in a shorter time frame. In the 80's when there wer only 2 divisions and no wild card, the Sox won 3 Division Titles. All in all the results from Theo fell below the expectations that I had after 2004.[/quote']

 

I was never a fan of Theo.. over rated brat with a butt in attitude. I was hoping he would go during the first Theo fiasco. He is where he belongs, in Chicago with the rest of the bums.

[User Name]

Exactly. A simple band aid will likely end in ANOTHER third place finish.

 

Reyes doesnt make much sense though. They just re-upped Scutaro, so unless you move Scutaro to 3B and make Youk the DH it wont work......and essentially that would be replacing the production of Ortiz with Reyes which, while Reyes is a great player, Ortiz gives you more.

 

I think the Sox need to start looking for a replacement at 3B for Youkilis as I have been saying all offseason. Hes missed too many games over the last 2 years, and lets face it....hes getting older and wider while playing a more physically demanding position than 1B/DH, so expect more of the same.

 

To me, the major needs we need to complete this overhaul.....

 

CF...not by choice, but Ellsbury packaged with Beckett, could bring in a high return. Could bring in a real #1.

 

3B....time to seriously consider a replacement.

 

RF...not sure if Kalish is ready to just hand it over. Bring someone in, a decent RH bat to compete with him. Kalish might play a little CF if Ellsbury is dealt anyway.

 

C.....a real catcher please, not someone just plugging the hole aka a band-aid.

 

SP......Bring in 2 or 3 Starting Pitchers (Beckett creates this hole if dealt, worth it with right package)

 

RP......all of them minus Papelbon (and assuming Aceves gets a shot in the rotation). Bard can pack up his s*** and be packaged in a deal with Iglesias, Lowrie, Reddick, Bowden and see what that returns.

 

Bench....see ya later Lowrie and Mcdonald and even Salty if they bring in a real #1 catcher. I cant see them sticking Lavarnaway in the minors again next year. Lavarnway has already proven more offensively than Salty has in the minors.

 

Bring in a right handed hitter who can hit in the middle of the lineup (5th or 6th).

 

Blow it up please. Do not put a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches.

 

Reactionary much?

 

And trade Beckett AND Ellsbury for one pitcher? Seriously?

[SCM33]

Reactionary much?

 

And trade Beckett AND Ellsbury for one pitcher? Seriously?

 

Reactionary?

 

Yeah, reactionary would be if I said this stuff the day after the season ended.

 

Ive been beating this drum all year long.

 

Beckett and Ellsbury as part of a PACKAGE that brings at least back a true #1 is what I said, not just for 1 pitcher. A package.

[User Name]

Reactionary?

 

Yeah, reactionary would be if I said this stuff the day after the season ended.

 

Ive been beating this drum all year long.

 

Beckett and Ellsbury as part of a PACKAGE that brings at least back a true #1 is what I said, not just for 1 pitcher. A package.

 

No thanks.

 

And yes, it's reactionary because you're advocating for the team to be blown up. Please.

[Dawgma]

No thanks.

 

And yes, it's reactionary because you're advocating for the team to be blown up. Please.

 

Me too... Time for a good douching!

[SCM33]

No thanks.

 

And yes, it's reactionary because you're advocating for the team to be blown up. Please.

 

Yeah, a second straight year of 3rd place finishes and missing the playoffs with the second highest payroll in all of professional sports just doesnt excite me.

 

Reactionary....again, is when you react to something that has just happened. This team needs to be blown up because after looking at them as a group, more of the same is not going to work.

 

Something needs to change and a band-aid isnt good enough.

 

Theyll be sure to raise those ticket prices like clockwork despite the fact they cant finish above a team with a 1/3 of their payroll and a 1/3 of the attendance the Sox draw..

[User Name]

Yeah, a second straight year of 3rd place finishes and missing the playoffs with the second highest payroll in all of professional sports just doesnt excite me.

 

Reactionary....again, is when you react to something that has just happened. This team needs to be blown up because after looking at them as a group, more of the same is not going to work.

 

Something needs to change and a band-aid isnt good enough.

 

Theyll be sure to raise those ticket prices like clockwork despite the fact they cant finish above a team with a 1/3 of their payroll and a 1/3 of the attendance the Sox draw..

 

Things can change without blowing up the entire team.

 

Get a RF who can hit righthanded, a strict manager and pitching coach, sign a couple of good bullpen arms, move Aceves to the fifth spot, and sign a #4 starter to go along with some reclamation projects who can provide insurance for the rotation.

 

/minimalist offseason.

 

If they can find some good trade opportunities for some of the current guys for at least market value, then do so, but trading them "because i don't like them, waaaaaahhhh" doesn't cut it.

[Palodios]

Things can change without blowing up the entire team.

 

Get a RF who can hit righthanded, a strict manager and pitching coach, sign a couple of good bullpen arms, move Aceves to the fifth spot, and sign a #4 starter to go along with some reclamation projects who can provide insurance for the rotation.

 

/minimalist offseason.

 

This.

 

The Red Sox have five position players that have contended for the MVP and three pitchers who have contended for the CY Young in the last three years. I lost count, but there were somewhere between 15-20 All-Stars in the organization in 2011, and that is no exaggeration. The talent is there. It is just a matter of everyone being healthy and motivated at the same time.

[SCM33]

It is just a matter of everyone being healthy and motivated at the same time.

 

 

.....and this is the reason I make my statements. It doesnt matter how much talent they have if they dont give a s*** about winning.

 

On paper, they arent as bad as I say.....I will agree with you and Username credit with that, however...paper champions dont win anything except third place.

 

When I say blow it up, I dont mean get rid of everyone and start over....what I mean is blow up some of the nucleus and get rid of the cancers and the guys who are indifferent/comfortable.

[Emmz]

Things can change without blowing up the entire team.

 

Get a RF who can hit righthanded, a strict manager and pitching coach, sign a couple of good bullpen arms, move Aceves to the fifth spot, and sign a #4 starter to go along with some reclamation projects who can provide insurance for the rotation.

 

/minimalist offseason.

 

If they can find some good trade opportunities for some of the current guys for at least market value, then do so, but trading them "because i don't like them, waaaaaahhhh" doesn't cut it.

 

Totally agree here. I hate how everyone's so quick to forget this was the best team in baseball for a large portion of the year. From the way some of the members here are talking, you'd think they lost 100 games.

 

Off-topic, your avatar rocks, I lol every time I see it.

[seabeachfred]

Needless to say, I soured on Epstein a few years ago when I became convinced that he was a pisspoor judge of talent and rotten in his picking of free agents. That in itself could have been enough to make him persona non grata, but he acted like a genius and pretty much used Francona as a glorified errand boy. At least, though, that's in our past and maybe this guy Cherington might be made of sterner stuff. I hope he is having a nice Sunday because he needs to get his ass in gear this coming week. So far, he hasn't done a damn thing but talk and we all know how cheap that is.

[User Name]

Off-topic, your avatar rocks, I lol every time I see it.

 

The man was a true dirt dog.

[jung]

Blowing up the team implies everybody or virtually everybody goes. There are some guys that should be off this team as it is just time to say goodbye. Sox World is not the Titanic but they have boxed themselves into a pretty stupid spot to be when you consider all the resources at their disposal. We can't want to fill obvious holes and bring everybody back at the same time.

 

There are some guys that stride the fence but I don't even think we can keep the fence sitters (I do not put Pap in this category because nobody is talking outrageous money to bring him back). Wake has to go. I don't think we need Tek any longer. Maybe the only catcher in baseball with an arm worse than Salty is Tek. Drew goes away and I think we will be forced to say goodbye to Ortiz as well.

 

I want the Sox to see what might be possible with regard to Ells but what they could get for him is only one of the major factors. The other is what we could accomplish in 2013. If we think we have a legitimate shot to get there in 2013 then you keep Ells unless somebody puts so much on the table that it helps or at least does not impede your chances of getting their in 2013. His production comes cheaply until after 2013. In fact I would take a plan that suggested that they will need some luck to get into the 2012 post season but with a legitimate shot to go all the way in 2013.

 

Rats Chin Music I did not see your clarification post until I had already posted this one.

[SoxSport]

The Red Sox live and die on their pitching.

 

Get somebody else's best pitcher without giving up yours. That's how the Yankees do it.

[a700hitter]

This.

 

The Red Sox have five position players that have contended for the MVP and three pitchers who have contended for the CY Young in the last three years. I lost count, but there were somewhere between 15-20 All-Stars in the organization in 2011, and that is no exaggeration. The talent is there. It is just a matter of everyone being healthy and motivated at the same time.

There will always be injuries and often key injuries. They need to be deep. Their pitching and bench depth has been too thin the past few seasons and could not survive some key injuries.

[jacksonianmarch]

There will always be injuries and often key injuries. They need to be deep. Their pitching and bench depth has been too thin the past few seasons and could not survive some key injuries.

 

2010 was abysmal in terms of injuries. Nobody wins when losing their leadoff hitter, their #2 and #4 hitters plus one of their top starters (Beckett). Nobody comes back from that. In 2011, the biggest injury per se was Buchholz as the offense wasnt a problem. I think from a 2011 standpoint, yes the depth needs improving. For 2010, though, their depth got them almost 90 wins