Theo Is Gone - Boston Herald

[a700hitter]

Actually, both the Boston and Chicago media don't give a damn about the Sox or the Cubs.

All they care about is MAKING A PROFIT. They do it any way they can.<_>But in recent years in their pursuit of profits, they have been the mouthpieces for the FO.

[example1]

It was the first article that I found about Theo in the biggest newspaper in Chicago. It was just quite different from the fawning articles that we read in the Boston tabloids (they don't deserve to be called newspapers). I enjoyed the writers style. It was blunt, sarcastic and irreverent.

 

BTW: Didn't Theo make enough money to shop at the better Boston clothing stores to get nice suits?

 

Who is stupid enough to think that a media as blowhardish as Chicago's would ever wholeheartedly embrace anyone with open arms? You could undoubtedly find anti-Jordan and ant-Ditka articles if you searched for them.

 

The fact that a sizeable portion of writers were excited about the move is a huge accomplishment.

 

The Cubs are in a much better position than they were two months ago; I have no doubt about that.

[iortiz]

If I were Theo I wouldn't bring back Zambrano, no way... Unless he has a trade prepared for him or something. From what I read, Zambrano is a cancer in the cubbie locker room .

[example1]

If I were Theo I wouldn't bring back Zambrano' date=' no way... At least he has a trade prepared for him or something. From what I read, Zambrano is a cancer in the cubbie locker room .[/quote']

 

Unless they make it appear that they would do something with Zambrano, other teams will believe they should be giving him away for nothing.

 

This is pretty classic Theo, isn't it? What benefit is there to trying to trade a guy while admiting he has no chance of coming back to your team?

[iortiz]

Unless they make it appear that they would do something with Zambrano, other teams will believe they should be giving him away for nothing.

 

This is pretty classic Theo, isn't it? What benefit is there to trying to trade a guy while admiting he has no chance of coming back to your team?

 

Good point.

 

Nevertheless and beyond the mind-game, I don't see a team trading something for Zambrano even if he goes for free to X team. IMO The only manager who could handle Zambrano's temper is Ozzzy Guillen. In fact, I don't remember where I heard that Ozzy considered that "El Toro" could be a good add for Florida.

[example1]

Good point.

 

Nevertheless and beyond the mind-game, I don't see a team trading something for Zambrano even if he goes for free to X team. IMO The only manager who could handle Zambrano's temper is Ozzzy Guillen. In fact, I don't remember where I heard that Ozzy considered that "El Toro" could be a good add for Florida.

 

You probably heard it from Ozzy, who mentioned his love for Big-Z a few times via twitter and other places.

 

People in Chicago will just need to get used to the fact that Theo will not undermine his players the way that they are used to. The Boston media got used to it, but even then, if he didn't com eout and publically shame someone people assumed it was because he was too blind to see their shortcomings.

[iortiz]

You probably heard it from Ozzy, who mentioned his love for Big-Z a few times via twitter and other places.

 

People in Chicago will just need to get used to the fact that Theo will not undermine his players the way that they are used to. The Boston media got used to it, but even then, if he didn't com eout and publically shame someone people assumed it was because he was too blind to see their shortcomings.

 

Theo seems to me a calm guy who always showed respect for the players and the staff that surrounded him. He always pointed good things about on his players and coaches. I don't remember him pointing something bad on somebody. Even on Lackey. He used to manage the situations properly, specially in bad times.

 

On the other hand, Zambrano has problems with his temper. He just can't control it. He goes beyond from what I have ever seen in a player.

 

Something is for, will be interesting if Theo can tame this 'Toro'.

[jung]

I think the only way that Theo could work something out that would recover some of Z's tarnished reputation is if he had Z making the effort to talk to players and coaches in the offseason. Problem is I am not sure Z is capable of a heartfelt apology or even be capable of making "I will never be a rat-fink teammate again " statement that anybody will take seriously.

 

I think if Z just went off for the remainder of the offseason for rest and relaxation intending to try to pull that off in spring training when it will be convenient for him, I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of either Z or Theo getting anywhere.

 

Theo can still probably get something for Z from a team with a need with a manager that thinks he can get the most out of that player.

[SoxSport]

You know, it struck me as a odd that the Cubs and Red Sox, two teams far apart in their current state and maybe in need of different types of managers, had practically the same list of managerial candidates.This didn't seem strange at the time, since the Red Sox list was probably compiled before Epstein left Boston, and Cherington is more or less an Epstein clone having worked for him for so long.

 

But it IS strange when you see the teams' needs spelled out in more detail, as they have been lately.

The Cubs are obviously a long range project, maybe calling for a young guy with teaching skills for younger players. The Red Sox are a win-now underachieving team of veterans, maybe calling for a manager with more experience and clout. Somebody who can impact right away and who can get performance out of a bunch of stars. Maybe that's what LL and Henry had in mind when they decided to take the reins and go in a different direction from Sveum et al.

[iortiz]

You know, it struck me as a odd that the Cubs and Red Sox, two teams far apart in their current state and maybe in need of different types of managers, had practically the same list of managerial candidates.This didn't seem strange at the time, since the Red Sox list was probably compiled before Epstein left Boston, and Cherington is more or less an Epstein clone having worked for him for so long.

 

But it IS strange when you see the teams' needs spelled out in more detail, as they have been lately.

The Cubs are obviously a long range project, maybe calling for a young guy with teaching skills for younger players. The Red Sox are a win-now underachieving team of veterans, maybe calling for a manager with more experience and clout. Somebody who can impact right away and who can get performance out of a bunch of stars. Maybe that's what LL and Henry had in mind when they decided to take the reins and go in a different direction from Sveum et al.

 

Haven't seen that way... Maybe Bobby is probably who covers that profile better than a "young" and unexpirenced guy who has not even been a manager. Only time will tell.

[example1]

You know, it struck me as a odd that the Cubs and Red Sox, two teams far apart in their current state and maybe in need of different types of managers, had practically the same list of managerial candidates.This didn't seem strange at the time, since the Red Sox list was probably compiled before Epstein left Boston, and Cherington is more or less an Epstein clone having worked for him for so long.

 

But it IS strange when you see the teams' needs spelled out in more detail, as they have been lately.

The Cubs are obviously a long range project, maybe calling for a young guy with teaching skills for younger players. The Red Sox are a win-now underachieving team of veterans, maybe calling for a manager with more experience and clout. Somebody who can impact right away and who can get performance out of a bunch of stars. Maybe that's what LL and Henry had in mind when they decided to take the reins and go in a different direction from Sveum et al.

 

I also heard stuff about wanting an experienced manager to balance out an inexperienced GM. Not sure what I think about it, but JH and LL might feel like they need a bit of a more experienced person at the helm, particularly if they don't know how much they trust Ben yet.

 

Remember, for the first few years Theo wasn't officially in charge of the baseall ops with the Sox.

[seabeachfred]

Sounds very plausible Sox Sport and if it is as you say they should stop the charade and just hire Valentine and get it over with. Henry and Lucchino are making an extravaganza out of it and it is only holding other things up, especially if Cherington has really been reduced to non-factor in player procurement. Well nothing will happen this weekend but it would be swell if something pops before Thanksgiving next week, and to those who keep insisting that in 2003 Francona was hired until around December, they ought to keep in mind that the collapse of the team this season was a disaster for everyone, players, press, fans, front office, and so on. The FO has to start showing the fans that they are serious about righting the sinking ship and a lack of any action is not the way to go.

 

In our favor is that very few teams have done anything either so we may all start from the same point when push comes to shove.

[SoxSport]

Sounds very plausible Sox Sport and if it is as you say they should stop the charade and just hire Valentine and get it over with. Henry and Lucchino are making an extravaganza out of it and it is only holding other things up, especially if Cherington has really been reduced to non-factor in player procurement. Well nothing will happen this weekend but it would be swell if something pops before Thanksgiving next week, and to those who keep insisting that in 2003 Francona was hired until around December, they ought to keep in mind that the collapse of the team this season was a disaster for everyone, players, press, fans, front office, and so on. The FO has to start showing the fans that they are serious about righting the sinking ship and a lack of any action is not the way to go.

 

In our favor is that very few teams have done anything either so we may all start from the same point when push comes to shove.

 

I wonder if they'll hire him immediately after Cherington comes back from the DR. They weren't going to do it this weekend with the GM away. The Globe/Herald may not accept that Cherington is not Epstein in terms of authority--but I think Cherington does.

 

The interesting question is how much input Valentine will have on player procurement, and how LL handles it. The Cardinals may be a good model: they had a young saber-type guy as GM and the older more traditional LaRussa with the big name as manager. That seemed to work out pretty well.

[User Name]

Wait, i thought Valentine wasn't Manager of the Sox yet because.....wait for it.....he isn't.

 

He may be hired, probably will be hired, but in the meantime, how about the chest-pounding about him and the "prediction" that he would be hired stop?

[a700hitter]

Cafardo opines that the Cubs should give up outfielder Tyler Colvin to the Red Sox to wrap up their Theo Epstein compensation talks.

 

I'd rather get some Ivy and a Chicago Dog. Let Theo keep his trash.

[Palodios]

I'd rather get some Ivy and a Chicago Dog. Let Theo keep his trash.

 

Colvin hit .150 last year over 80 games. I think they should be able to do slightly better.

[User Name]

Cafardo's probably hung up on the kid's potential after his solid 2010 season. But the kid strikes out a ton, doesn't get on base, can't hit lefties, is yet another lefty OF (like we don't have enough of those) and is limited defensively.

[SoxSport]

I'd rather get some Ivy and a Chicago Dog. Let Theo keep his trash.

 

Maybe they'll throw in a deep dish Chicago pizza.

[jung]

The more I think about this Theo compensation question the more I begin to narrow this down to a particular issue.

 

I had posted weeks ago that it appeared that the last practical opportunity that a team has to restrict the movement of FO personnel like Theo is at the point of agreeing to allow the team desirous of his services to talk to him. Once that horse is out of the barn, your leverage in these compensation discussions is much reduced, maybe even zero.

 

I am not more cognoscente of how things work in MLB than the Sox are. Hence they had to know that. However as we have discussed before, they really were not that interested in Theo staying. Unlike the Tito situation, I do think the Theo situation was some parts Theo wanting to leave and some parts JH and LL being willing to see him go.

 

Clearly the time to discuss what possible options Chicago was willing to offer to Boston was before the Sox allowed the discussion between Theo and the Cubs to take place. I think the Sox did not want to put much in the way of a road block in front of the Cubs and did not insist on having the discussion they should have had at that point. That is probably the thorn in the side of the Sox in trying to get what they want for Theo in terms of compensation now.

 

I am sure that the Sox want Chicago and the Commissioner (once involved) to look at this from the perspective of Theo's perceived value to Chicago. However in easing the path for Theo to Chicago it leaves the Commissioner in a position to argue that the Sox must not have put much stock in the future value of Theo in their organization or they would have put more emphasis on the issue of compensation at the last point of having any practical leverage in the matter. Frankly the Commish would be right in that regard. The Sox neither wanted to offer Theo more time in the form of a contract extension nor did they really want him working out the last year of his contract as a lame duck GM.

 

Once he gets into this the Commish will deemphasis the value of Theo in an absolute sense and likely argue behind closed doors that the Sox can't have their cake and eat it too. Unless Theo is being paid some astronomical amount for league presidents generally, I think it will be hard for the Sox to make any case that will result in a player or prospect that they want out of this whole Theo tussle.