2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

Can someone please tell me what the hell the deal is with Edwin Jackson?

 

Seriously, why on earth does he think he deserves 80 million? He has a career whip of close to 1.50. When he pitched for Tampa Bay, he had a 5.08 ERA, and in 2010, he was getting absolutely smoked in Arizona.

 

He has a 7.36 ERA in Fenway Park in 7 games, 6.55 ERA in Yankees Stadium, 5.16 ERA in Camden Yards, 5.09 ERA in Tropicana Field....

 

This is just ridiculous, the only team who seemed remotely interested was the Yankees, and even they wanted to keep him to 1 year. Who is going to pay that much for a #5 type guy?

[iortiz]

Can someone please tell me what the hell the deal is with Edwin Jackson?

 

Seriously, why on earth does he think he deserves 80 million? He has a career whip of close to 1.50. When he pitched for Tampa Bay, he had a 5.08 ERA, and in 2010, he was getting absolutely smoked in Arizona.

 

He has a 7.36 ERA in Fenway Park in 7 games, 6.55 ERA in Yankees Stadium, 5.16 ERA in Camden Yards, 5.09 ERA in Tropicana Field....

 

This is just ridiculous, the only team who seemed remotely interested was the Yankees, and even they wanted to keep him to 1 year. Who is going to pay that much for a #5 type guy?

 

+1...

 

Way to go Boras.

[example1]

Can someone please tell me what the hell the deal is with Edwin Jackson?

 

Seriously, why on earth does he think he deserves 80 million? He has a career whip of close to 1.50. When he pitched for Tampa Bay, he had a 5.08 ERA, and in 2010, he was getting absolutely smoked in Arizona.

 

He has a 7.36 ERA in Fenway Park in 7 games, 6.55 ERA in Yankees Stadium, 5.16 ERA in Camden Yards, 5.09 ERA in Tropicana Field....

 

This is just ridiculous, the only team who seemed remotely interested was the Yankees, and even they wanted to keep him to 1 year. Who is going to pay that much for a #5 type guy?

 

Jackson has a live arm and came to the bigs early. That means hes a relatively young FA. Boras is hoping teams will jump on his improving numbers and lock him up thru his mid 30s.

 

I hadnt thought too much about it but he really could be a great one year candidate. Coming off one solid season, still young enough to be an enticing option longterm if he proves his improvements are legit. What better stage to show that than Boston? Just ask Adrian Beltre. I might like that better than Oswalt because Jackson is healthier.

[jung]

I don't think Jackson will get down to having to take one year. But I would think that he will end up with three from somebody. Five is unreasonable but likely a negotiating position.

[jung]

Congrats to 700 for his Giants win.

 

Packers must have some relatives on the Giants that they forgot on their Christmas shopping list:

Here wanna' football....Here wanna' football.....Here.... (You get the picture)

[iortiz]

Red Sox, Saltalamacchia Avoid Arbitration

By Dan Mennella [January 15 at 6:35pm CST]

The Red Sox and catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia have avoided arbitration by agreeing to terms on a one-year, non-guaranteed contract, the team announced.*The deal is worth $2.5MM, tweets Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald.

 

Saltalamacchia, 27 in May, hit 16 homers and*posted a .235/.288/.450 line*in 386 plate-appearances for the Red Sox in 2011, his first full campaign in Boston. Once a highly touted prospect with the Braves, Salty has been something of a disappointment as a Major Leaguer, hitting .244/.307/.406 in nearly 1,300 career plate appearances over parts of five seasons, although catchers are known the develop late.

 

Matt Swartz of MLBTR projected*Salty would earn $1.6MM in 2012 through arbitration, so the reported $2.5MM is favorable for the Munsey Sports Management client based on that projection.

 

Boston's remaining arbitration eligible players are Alfredo Aceves, Mike Aviles, Andrew Bailey, Daniel Bard, Jacoby Ellsbury, Franklin Morales and David Ortiz, according to Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe.

[jung]

Hmmmm....not a guaranteed contract! Wonder if that is why the Sox wanted to avoid arbitration with Salty and were willing to pay the additional $900k.

 

Actually I am not sure what that really means. There must be some specific language in the contract relative to that issue. I don't think language that is directly contradictory to the CBA is considered binding. Must be something specific in there I would think. Maybe its a conditional contract.

[Meh]

Hmmmm....not a guaranteed contract! Wonder if that is why the Sox wanted to avoid arbitration with Salty and were willing to pay the additional $900k.

 

Actually I am not sure what that really means. There must be some specific language in the contract relative to that issue. I don't think language that is directly contradictory to the CBA is considered binding. Must something specific in there I would think. Maybe its a conditional contract.

 

All contracts like that are non-guaranteed. If Ellsbury signs a one year deal it'll be non guaranteed too.

[jung]

All contracts like that are non-guaranteed. If Ellsbury signs a one year deal it'll be non guaranteed too.

 

That's right. It is one year. Scanned right over that. Thanks Meh

[iortiz]

What worries me is the "Salty has been something of a disappointment as a Major Leaguer, hitting .244/.307/.406 in nearly 1,300 career plate appearances over parts of five seasons, although catchers are known the develop late" comment. How much can he improve?

[User Name]

All contracts like that are non-guaranteed. If Ellsbury signs a one year deal it'll be non guaranteed too.

 

That's not how it works, from what i understand. Can you provide some literature about it?

 

Not doubting what you say, but that's not how i thought it worked.

[jung]

If you mean Salty's catching skills, I think his receiving can improve a good deal. Not sure his throwing can improve much.

[Station 13]

Wonder what Ells' getting? $8M-10M?

 

Bard? $3M+?

[seabeachfred]

Thank goodness that this chapter is finally closed... about 2 years too late.

 

No 700, don't you believe this for a second. This chapter is most definitely not closed. If Prune Face or Lucchinoturd order BV to give those two bums a shot in ST, Valentine either has to comply or risk his job by defying his bosses. Either way it opens up a whole can of worms---and, besides, I'm starting to worry that he wants to manage so badly that he would surrender his independence so he could keep his job. I remember all those stories late in 2008 when Putritek was still without a contract and the word was he had played his last game with the Red Sox. I didn't believe it then and I sure and hell don't now. Valentine has to make it abundantly clear he doesn't want these two, doesn't need these two, and their presence will be nothing more than a distraction to a team that already has more of this than they can endure. Just say so Bobby; tell them those two to hit the road Jack and don't come back no more, no more, no more, no more, hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.

[User Name]

So not even Valentine openly saying that neither of them is going to play next year is good enough for you?

 

Jesus f***ing Christ. What do you want, a signed letter from ownership?

[jung]

I actually can't see them screwing with V for either one of these two guys. They may not be happy with V for making a public statement...maybe they are happy that he did. Whatever. V is their hand picked guy. Can't see the Sox sticking V with either one of these guys after such a definitive statement.

 

It is just not worth it. I can't argue with the fact that they often do things that are just not worth the grief and aggravation but I just don't see it this time.

[seabeachfred]

I would argue that the road was laid, they just didn't perform.

 

People are acting like the failure to get, say, Rich Harden was the reason they didn't make the playoffs... Harden had a 4.75 ERA and a 1.001 OPS against in 4 Sept/Oct starts.

 

If Papelbon had held down two of those blown saves at the end the team would have been in the playoffs. If Beckett or Lester had pitched decently enough to beat the Orioles they would have been in the playoffs. Hell, if Ellsbury makes that catch in CF they probably make the playoffs. The road was laid just fine. No excuses.

 

In retrospect it is easy to question how the road was laid--especially if one takes great joy in criticizing a certain member of the FO--but it comes down to performance from players who are clearly the ones we wanted out there: Papelbon, Beckett, Lester, Bard. Even Lackey pitched a gem in NY that could have saved the season.

 

 

EX1, you and so many others mention that if we would won this game or that game, or that series or whatever we would have made it.....then what? One and out? Jog your memory back to ST. We lost 12 games in a row and before you say ST losses don't count in the standings, I agree, but they're losses anyway and a large number of losses can and often does create a culture of losing---and that is exactly what happened when the season opened. We played listless, uninspiring baseball and lost our f irst six games in a row, ten of the first 12. In my opinion a culture of losing embedded itself in the team, and as anyone who has played or coached sports can attest to, losing becomes a habit and it becomes comfortable one because it doesn't much effort.

 

In blunt terms, THE BOSTON RED SOX WERE NOT PREPARED EITHER PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY FOR THE START OF THE 2011 SEASON. We also had another losing streak after we recovered if you remember that. The collapse in September may have surprised you but it didn't people like Muggah, Pumpsie, IPOT and myself. We saw it coming and we took what happened in ST as a clue as what might go down. This Spring we must try to win at least half our games, get the pitchers in top physical shape and come into the regular season in the right mental frame of mind. All three of these things were missing in 2011. A good sign is that the culprit responsible for it is now unemployed in baseball and we have a manager who will tolerate this kind of s*** from the team.

[Palodios]

Jackson has a live arm and came to the bigs early. That means hes a relatively young FA. Boras is hoping teams will jump on his improving numbers and lock him up thru his mid 30s.

 

I hadnt thought too much about it but he really could be a great one year candidate. Coming off one solid season, still young enough to be an enticing option longterm if he proves his improvements are legit. What better stage to show that than Boston? Just ask Adrian Beltre. I might like that better than Oswalt because Jackson is healthier.

 

I just don't see it. He had a relatively good season in the NL Central... but come on, its the NL Central, and even so, opposing batters hit .290 off of him. He went to the playoffs, and gave up a 5.60 ERA there.

[User Name]

EX1, you and so many others mention that if we would won this game or that game, or that series or whatever we would have made it.....then what? One and out? Jog your memory back to ST. We lost 12 games in a row and before you say ST losses don't count in the standings, I agree, but they're losses anyway and a large number of losses can and often does create a culture of losing---and that is exactly what happened when the season opened. We played listless, uninspiring baseball and lost our f irst six games in a row, ten of the first 12. In my opinion a culture of losing embedded itself in the team, and as anyone who has played or coached sports can attest to, losing becomes a habit and it becomes comfortable one because it doesn't much effort.

 

In blunt terms, THE BOSTON RED SOX WERE NOT PREPARED EITHER PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY FOR THE START OF THE 2011 SEASON. We also had another losing streak after we recovered if you remember that. The collapse in September may have surprised you but it didn't people like Muggah, Pumpsie, IPOT and myself. We saw it coming and we took what happened in ST as a clue as what might go down. This Spring we must try to win at least half our games, get the pitchers in top physical shape and come into the regular season in the right mental frame of mind. All three of these things were missing in 2011. A good sign is that the culprit responsible for it is now unemployed in baseball and we have a manager who will tolerate this kind of s*** from the team.

 

That's why Valentine was hired. So the point is?

[jung]

Jackson and 5 years. Boras does play every possible angle doesn't he? No wonder he is so maddening to deal with for GM's, Pres and owners. I can see why players still want him though. He simply does not give up an inch without a fight and if you give him a pinky finger he is gnawing on your arm before you know it.

[Palodios]

In blunt terms' date=' THE BOSTON RED SOX WERE NOT PREPARED EITHER PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY FOR THE START OF THE 2011 SEASON. [/quote']

 

Every single major player was either recovering from injury/surgery or had a personal issue that they were fighting through. Every single one. The chemistry of the team was off, it definitely was, and the team was not prepared for the season. But the reason for that was not training or fitness, it was because of health or outside factors. Fitness didn't appear to become a problem until the middle of the season.

[jung]

Fitness didn't appear to become a problem until the middle of the season.

 

And those players that appeared somewhat lethargic and roundish about the middle got that way during the season.... Staggering when you think about it, not so much because of the physical implications but the mental implications. Almost like the players employed more restraint under the care and guidance of their wives and lovers and became a bunch of petulant children eating and drinking to excess out of boredom and just because they could. In fact, Lester said as much.

[seabeachfred]

Hmmmm....not a guaranteed contract! Wonder if that is why the Sox wanted to avoid arbitration with Salty and were willing to pay the additional $900k.

 

Actually I am not sure what that really means. There must be some specific language in the contract relative to that issue. I don't think language that is directly contradictory to the CBA is considered binding. Must be something specific in there I would think. Maybe its a conditional contract.

 

How about so they keep a plac open for sacred cow Jason Putritek? All the front office has to do is demand t hat Valentine put that bum on the roster and then either release or trade Salty. Then there would be the excuse that we just had to put that over the hill bum on the team. As ridiculous as that sounds, I put nothing past those *******s running our front office. Lucchino is a duplicitious son of a bitch and by now we should all be aware of how much they nurture their sacred cows. Varitek is not gone by any stretch of the imagination.

[redsoxfan3]

So I am growing tired of fans being so pessimistic of this team. Yes, with the team we have right now, it is hard to be extremely optimistic about this season. We still have a few weeks until Spring Training starts. We are really only one starting pitcher away and maybe one or two bullpen arms away from being one of the best teams in baseball. We can still sign Roy Oswalt. Even if we don't, we have enough pieces of the puzzle to survive until we can potentially make a trade at the deadline. Chad Qualls is also an option for our pen, we have been linked to him recently. It is getting extremely old hearing about the same things. We will be a competitive team regardless. There are a lot of unanswered questions, but we haven't even finished the offseason yet. Wait until Spring Training is over and wait to see our finalized roster going into the season. We are ready offensively and defensively. We just need to make some adjustments. If you don't have anything better to do, then maybe start watching the Patriots the next couple weeks as they look to try to get back to the Super Bowl. There is some positivity with New England sports. The Red Sox will be fine when it is all said and done. If we don't win the World Series in 2012, life goes on. We will be able to compete though, that is for sure. This team will not be the worst team in baseball. Hang in there. Keep your heads up. Most importantly, keep the faith.

[seabeachfred]

So not even Valentine openly saying that neither of them is going to play next year is good enough for you?

 

Jesus f***ing Christ. What do you want, a signed letter from ownership?

 

I want to hear that both players are unconditionally released PERIOD!!!!!!!!! Anything less than that keeps the door open and that open door has led to those two being let in for the past three seasons when both should have been cashiered and sent into retirement---and they would have been if the Red Sox had not buckled and signed them both again. They received exactly NO offers from any other team each and every time they became free agents.

[YAZMAN]

So I am growing tired of fans being so pessimistic of this team. Yes' date=' with the team we have right now, it is hard to be extremely optimistic about this season. We still have a few weeks until Spring Training starts. We are really only one starting pitcher away and maybe one or two bullpen arms away from being one of the best teams in baseball. We can still sign Roy Oswalt. Even if we don't, we have enough pieces of the puzzle to survive until we can potentially make a trade at the deadline. Chad Qualls is also an option for our pen, we have been linked to him recently. It is getting extremely old hearing about the same things. We will be a competitive team regardless. There are a lot of unanswered questions, but we haven't even finished the offseason yet. Wait until Spring Training is over and wait to see our finalized roster going into the season. We are ready offensively and defensively. We just need to make some adjustments. If you don't have anything better to do, then maybe start watching the Patriots the next couple weeks as they look to try to get back to the Super Bowl. There is some positivity with New England sports. The Red Sox will be fine when it is all said and done. If we don't win the World Series in 2012, life goes on. We will be able to compete though, that is for sure. This team will not be the worst team in baseball. Hang in there. Keep your heads up. Most importantly, keep the faith.[/quote']

 

Has anyone done a salary assessment of the 2012 team? Bottom line is that will dictate the roster you see take the field in April. They'll take whoever they have the luxury of signing, without increasing the luxury it takes to do so.

[User Name]

I want to hear that both players are unconditionally released PERIOD!!!!!!!!! Anything less than that keeps the door open and that open door has led to those two being let in for the past three seasons when both should have been cashiered and sent into retirement---and they would have been if the Red Sox had not buckled and signed them both again. They received exactly NO offers from any other team each and every time they became free agents.

 

Another thing. You have a perfect right to curse if you want. I do it regularly even though I shouldn't. That's your right, but I do not appreciate you taking the Lord's name in vain. I don't like that at all and want you to stop doing that immediately.

 

It's either that or banging my head against the wall. I don't like the nicknames you throw around but you keep saying them. I think i'll keep my schtick.

 

Anyway, they can't be released because they are not under contract, have not been offered a contract, and there's no reason to think they will be offered a contract.

[jung]

Geez SEAbeach you really are seeing Wakes and Teks coming out of the woodwork. Seriously though the way V commented would make you think he was already kinda' queered just for the fact of the invite. Like "what the hell are they doing wasting a locker on this guy?"

 

I just don't think they want V bummin' because they shoved either one down his throat. At the end of the day there is nothing they can get that would make queering V worthwhile. I hereby give you complete freedom to "I told ya' so me right into the ground" if it happens but I really don't think so.

 

Not to say I liked the invite...I hated it and said so. I think V's public comment makes it very difficult for management to sneak either onto the team.

[example1]

Right. They aren't under contract.

 

I'm hopeful the Sox will release Oil Can Boyd and Mike Timlin too. They should unconditionally release them, with a press conference and everything.

[jung]

I'm hopeful the Sox will release Oil Can Boyd and Mike Timlin too. They should unconditionally release them, with a press conference and everything.

 

I have to admit that is funny E.

 

I suppose if you really wanted to feed those concerned with more grist for their mill you could envision Tek chasing Salty around in ST trying to crack him across the knees with a baseball bat ala' Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding.