2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya

[VA Sox Fan]

I'm sorry that any discussion that doesn't end with a :thumbsup: or a "way to go" annoys you. You never debate the merits of an argument. You just mock the people with views and opinions different from yours or you just try to shut them down. That's intolerant.

 

I do debate if I feel strongly enough about something. Everyone has an opinion and instead of trying to debate them or make them see my point of view, I comment and move on. You debate and debate and debate and beat a dead horse and you always have. You are negative and never have a positive thing to say about anything. We are all intolerant and if you don't think you are, you are mistaken.

 

And please, don't pm me to tell me what a great guy you are.

[a700hitter]

I do debate if I feel strongly enough about something. Everyone has an opinion and instead of trying to debate them or make them see my point of view, I comment and move on. You debate and debate and debate and beat a dead horse and you always have. You are negative and never have a positive thing to say about anything. We are all intolerant and if you don't think you are, you are mistaken.

 

And please, don't pm me to tell me what a great guy you are.

Your comments before you move on rarely discuss the merits of the argument. They are usually just insults or admonishments to stop discussing the matter. I have never attempted to shutr down a discussion like you do on a regular basis. I don't mock posters on a regular basis as you do, because I disagree with their opinion. You say that I beat a dead horse, but in each of those discussions there is another poster and frequently numerous posters actively disagreeing with me. Are they also beating a dead horse. You never admonish anyone but me on these issues. There's a lot of bias on your part. If other posters think an issue is worthy of discussion and I discuss it with them shouldn't we be able to do so without you telling me (not those with opposing views) to shut up? This is a message board. You need to get off people's backs. If you disagree with them on a substantive issue, feel free to debate the issue. It really gets tired that instead of arguing substance that you just call people negative and curmudgeon and ridicule them in various other ways.

[VA Sox Fan]

I've gotten to the point where I'M thinking of putting her on ignore. She is one intolerant lady. Look if she wants to be a pollyanna that's fine with me' date=' but at least she should defend her position. The problem is she has no position except to regurgitate whatever the front office says is so. VA sees no evil, speaks no evil and hears none uttered in her presence. Trying to ascertain her own thoughts is like trying to take a hot bath with your clothes on or trying to eat a bowl of soup with a fork. Boy oh boy.....[/quote']

 

Please do old man, please do. I'm optimistic and am trying to move forward from a horrible 2011 season. You are paranoid and read more into things than necessary when it comes to the FO etc. I don't find it necessary to share my every thought on every single subject. I don't have diarrhea of the mouth/keyboard like you.

 

I have enjoyed this board for years. Wish I still felt that way.

[User Name]

Nick Cafardo notes that both the Yankees and Red Sox are still in on Kuroda and Oswalt, but both teams are waiting for a big price drop in either of them. He also notes Oswalt would love to pitch for the Cards, but their rotation is set with Wainwright coming back from TJ. Good news for the ALE teams.

 

I also noted that Rich "Eternal Promise" Harden is still a FA. I would like it if the Sox took a flier on him if he's cheap, and deployed him as a reliever/spot starter. His injury history is spotty, but he's worth the gamble.

[jacksonianmarch]

Oswalt is really out of major suitors, so he's either going to recoup his value in obscurity or he's going to come to on of our teams. Kuroda is just trying to jack up his price to he can return to the west coast, maybe Seattle.

[a700hitter]

I asked this question yesterday and got only one response. We've all read that Kuroda and Oswalt are out of the Red Sox price range. The Cubs want a king' ransom for Garza. No one wants Bret Myers. I think he be okay. So, where do the Sox turn to fill the rotation? Only Palodios responded. He would opt for Saunders. What would the rest of you do? Many of you think Benny Boy is doing a great job. I am interested in hearing what you think he will do.

[VA Sox Fan]

Your comments before you move on rarely discuss the merits of the argument. They are usually just insults or admonishments to stop discussing the matter. I have never attempted to shutr down a discussion like you do on a regular basis. I don't mock posters on a regular basis as you do' date=' because I disagree with their opinion. You say that I beat a dead horse, but in each of those discussions there is another poster and frequently numerous posters actively disagreeing with me. Are they also beating a dead horse. You never admonish anyone but me on these issues. There's a lot of bias on your part. If other posters think an issue is worthy of discussion and I discuss it with them shouldn't we be able to do so without you telling me (not those with opposing views) to shut up? This is a message board. You need to get off people's backs. If you disagree with them on a substantive issue, feel free to debate the issue. It really gets tired that instead of arguing substance that you just call people negative and curmudgeon and ridicule them in various other ways.[/quote']

 

You are such a hypocrite. When me and other posters give you crap about something, you always single me out. You are admitted know it all and the self-proclaimed King of Talksox. Why do you care what I think or care if I get on other people's backs? I always have. It used to be only NYY fans. But so many Red Sox fans have become as bad or worse than them.

 

I've never been banned out here, have you? I've never annoyed people to the point they send me threatening and scathing pm's, have you?

 

Add me to the list of people you have on ignore since you cannot tolerate me.

[SoxSport]

Plus Yawkey was a racist well until later in life. The Red Sox passed on an opportunity to sign Willie Mays.

 

 

True. But keep in mind that Yawkey was just another one of those conservative owners who wanted to keep the sport white. They were in the majority--including the Yankee owners.

There were very few Branch Rickeys in baseball at the time. Bill Veeck was another when he owned Cleveland, and he got Satchel Paige, Luke Easter and Larry Doby. Lou Perini, who owned the Boston Braves, had Sam Jethroe in the late 40s and Hank Aaron was brought up the year after the Braves left Boston.

[a700hitter]

You are such a hypocrite. When me and other posters give you crap about something, you always single me out. You are admitted know it all and the self-proclaimed King of Talksox. Why do you care what I think or care if I get on other people's backs? I always have. It used to be only NYY fans. But so many Red Sox fans have become as bad or worse than them.

 

I've never been banned out here, have you? I've never annoyed people to the point they send me threatening and scathing pm's, have you?

 

Add me to the list of people you have on ignore since you cannot tolerate me.

I do tolerate you. I only call you out when you pile on bully-style onto someone else's insult. You do it every day.

 

Edit: Your first post out of the box today piled on an insult by another poster against SoxSport. He was called a "troll" for his views and you followed up saying that his view was ridiculous.

[SoxSport]

I asked this question yesterday and got only one response. We've all read that Kuroda and Oswalt are out of the Red Sox price range. The Cubs want a king' ransom for Garza. No one wants Bret Myers. I think he be okay. So' date=' where do the Sox turn to fill the rotation? Only Palodios responded. He would opt for Saunders. What would the rest of you do? Many of you think Benny Boy is doing a great job. I am interested in hearing what you think he will do.[/quote']

 

Ben just answered your question, signing Carlos Silva. He might also take a chance on a retread like Sheets or Webb if the price is right and they take a minor league contract.

The price of free agent pitching is just too high in this market, especially with Papi's contract hanging around your neck.

[SoxSport]

Oswalt is really out of major suitors' date=' so he's either going to recoup his value in obscurity or he's going to come to on of our teams. Kuroda is just trying to jack up his price to he can return to the west coast, maybe Seattle.[/quote']

 

I saw Oswalt pitch last year, and I'm very leery of him. He's on the downside of his career, and his back is giving him problems. He wants a boatload of money based largely on past performance. I don't like Kuroda, either, because of his age. Plus both came from the NL.

Kuroda rejected a deal to the Red Sox, and that will be remembered.

[a700hitter]

Ben just answered your question, signing Carlos Silva. He might also take a chance on a retread like Sheets or Webb if the price is right and they take a minor league contract.

The price of free agent pitching is just too high in this market, especially with Papi's contract hanging around your neck.

I hope those are not his only options or we are in a load of trouble.

[jung]

We're not talking about a 15 million dollar mistake. We're talking about a 2-3 million dollar mistake, at worst.

 

It is only a $2/3M mistake if we wanted the player. Are we saying we want Ortiz instead of pitching cause that is what this is boiling down to? In that context it is hard to argue that this is only a $2/3M mistake.

[a700hitter]

Ben just answered your question, signing Carlos Silva. He might also take a chance on a retread like Sheets or Webb if the price is right and they take a minor league contract.

The price of free agent pitching is just too high in this market, especially with Papi's contract hanging around your neck.

Aren't Carlos Silva and Boof Bonser the same person?

[FredLynn]

I asked this question yesterday and got only one response. We've all read that Kuroda and Oswalt are out of the Red Sox price range. The Cubs want a king' ransom for Garza. No one wants Bret Myers. I think he be okay. So' date=' where do the Sox turn to fill the rotation? Only Palodios responded. He would opt for Saunders. What would the rest of you do? Many of you think Benny Boy is doing a great job. I am interested in hearing what you think he will do.[/quote']

 

I will tell you what I would do: if it is possible to stay under the salary cap I would make certain that happens so that next year we can go over the cap and make a real run at a ring by signing a top flight SP or two. If necessary I would round out the starting rotation with Felix Doubront (yes, I know he will get hammered just about every time out there) and now that we have Carlos Silva and all the other also-rans as "SP depth", at least we have enough warm bodies to occupy the mound. It is imperative that we recognize this year for what it is: a rebuilding year. We cannot compete for a ring every year, and this is the year the team should take a deep breath and begin the clean the Herculean stables Epstein left behind. Sacrifice this year will make the next few years much more enjoyable.

[User Name]

I don't get the "recognize the rebuilding year" rethoric and hyperbole. As it is right now, this team is capable of competing. An extra innings-eater would simply ensure a couple of question marks not having to go the Sox way as an obligation.

[a700hitter]

Matt Garza could be had for the right price

Posted by Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff January 4, 2012 10:56 AM

 

Chicago Cubs righty Matt Garza could be in a contending team's rotation if they're willing to part with three prospects from a team's "A" list according to a Major League source.

 

The Red Sox,Yankees and Blue Jays are three teams known to be interested. But none have stepped up their offers to this point.

 

Garza could be a difference-maker in any contending team's rotation. The Cubs' Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer will sit back, however, and not pull the trigger on anything they feel is short of top-shelf value for a pitcher who is AL East and playoff battle-tested and who brings a grit to any rotation.

 

As we've written before, the Cubs have entertained plenty of offers. They could decide to extend Garza and keep him, or they could wait until the trading deadline when the teams who won't give up talent know need to in order to make the playoffs.

 

It's an interesting change of roles for Epstein, who is used to being the one buying. In his rebuilding efforts in Chicago, he will now be the one selling and building with young talent to replenish a very depleted farm system.

[Spudboy]

I don't get the "recognize the rebuilding year" rethoric and hyperbole. As it is right now' date=' this team is capable of competing. An extra innings-eater would simply ensure a couple of question marks not having to go the Sox way as an obligation.[/quote']

 

I suspect that the Sox are mostly set as far as moves for pitchers are concerned unless some team (Cubs?) or free agent gets desperate or at the very least more motivated than at present to make a deal for a starter of worth. I'd love to see The Expectorator but I don't want to loose guys Kalish or Lavanway or even Guys like Dubrouant or Renoudo (SP on both, sorry Va!). I really like the idea of grooming these kids and bringing them up when ready.

[User Name]

I don't get why everyone is so down on Doubront. He had injury issues last year, but he's still young and has good stuff. He could probably provide league average innings out of the five spot right now.

[FredLynn]

I don't get the "recognize the rebuilding year" rethoric and hyperbole. As it is right now' date=' this team is capable of competing. An extra innings-eater would simply ensure a couple of question marks not having to go the Sox way as an obligation.[/quote']

 

We are capable of competing for a playoffs spot, but not a championship ring. We do not have the pitching for that. Not when we finished 9th in ERA in the AL last year and have done nothing besides signing the immortal Carlos Silva to fix it.

[User Name]

I know it's a cliche, but it's true: The playoffs are a crapshoot. Once you get there, anything can happen. Just ask the 2006 Cardinals.

[Spudboy]

I don't get why everyone is so down on Doubront. He had injury issues last year' date=' but he's still young and has good stuff. He could probably provide league average innings out of the five spot right now.[/quote']

 

I agree with you UN?. I am not familiar with his injury issues because I was not paying enough attantion during the 2011 season. But what I saw of him prior showed me enough to believe he could do as you say.

 

 

 

We are capable of competing for a playoffs spot' date=' but not a championship ring. We do not have the pitching for that. Not when we finished 9th in ERA in the AL last year and have done nothing besides signing the immortal Carlos Silva to fix it.[/quote']

 

I think we can fill the bottom of the rotation with just enough to compete. I believe that one of the young arms in the system (possibly Dubraunt) could help. I gues I am more of a glass half full guy than you.

[jung]

I think the playoffs can be a crapshoot but they can also be a simple matter of having the big dog pitcher that you can run out there enough times. Just ask the 2011 Cards about that.

[User Name]

You mean like the Phils, who had not one, but three "big dog pitchers" yet lost to the Cards?

[Station 13]

Doubront injuries were results of conditioning. He was crucified for arriving in camp out of shape, after already being injured in previous season. 2012 is his final shot probably. No more options to keep him in the minors. Now where is the good control and work pace he was said to have?

[jung]

Well not to belabor the point but the Cards had a bigger dog than the Phils had and the way the playoff and WS schedule worked out due to weather and other considerations the Cards got to run him out there more than anybody would have guessed before the playoffs started. You could also make a case that once they got to the WS, that factor was critical to the Cards winning the whole thing.

[a700hitter]

No one liked Bret Myers. What about Wandy Rodriguez?

[jung]

I really do hope we get to see Doubrant pitch this year. He may not be great in 2012 and here probably is not much of a chance of that. However I do want to see some of these guys pitch this year. I could also see Doubrant starting the year with the PawSox in order to get innings in instead of being down at the bottom of the rotation in Boston.

 

If they do that though I don't want to see the Sox take every little misstep the kid takes in the minors and turn it into a rational to keep him down there longer. Get him some inning early down there and then baring serious injury get him up here.

[User Name]

Well not to belabor the point but the Cards had a bigger dog than the Phils had and the way the playoff and WS schedule worked out due to weather and other considerations the Cards got to run him out there more than anybody would have guessed before the playoffs started. You could also make a case that once they got to the WS' date=' that factor was critical to the Cards winning the whole thing.[/quote']

 

Really? The Phils had Roy f***ing Halladay and Cliff Lee, both of whom have been significantly better than Carpenter this season and the past few seasons too. Hell, Hamels, the Phils' #3, had been better than Carpenter all season long. And Carpenter had his s*** ruined the first game to boot.

 

You're grasping at straws here. The Cards had to go through two teams with better pitching than them to get to the Series. What's your point?