2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

The Sox are going to remain on the sidelines this year, as they should. While its fun to speculate about what deals could be made, I think that they are just about finished now with the acquisitions of Punto and Melancon, and the pending arbitration with Ortiz. This is the proper approach for a rebuilding year, which defines this year. It would be nice to get rid of troublemakers like Beckett (who, in his first exposure to his new boss, Bobby Valentine, thought it was just fine to complain about criticisms his new BOSS had about his delivery instead of accepting it as criticism worthy of consideration) and Youkilis, who is not only breaking down but who is not a clubhouse favorite. We could get a pretty nice haul in terms of young prospects for those two.

I certainly hope the FO doesn't do anything foolish this winter and jeopardize our chances in 2014.

 

I don't think they're done with their acquisitions, which is why it's being reported everywhere that they're in on guys such as Cordero, Oswalt and Kuroda. What this means is that they're not looking to get into multi-year contracts with their sights set on 2013 and beyond.

[a700hitter]

The Sox are going to remain on the sidelines this year, as they should. While its fun to speculate about what deals could be made, I think that they are just about finished now with the acquisitions of Punto and Melancon, and the pending arbitration with Ortiz. This is the proper approach for a rebuilding year, which defines this year. It would be nice to get rid of troublemakers like Beckett (who, in his first exposure to his new boss, Bobby Valentine, thought it was just fine to complain about criticisms his new BOSS had about his delivery instead of accepting it as criticism worthy of consideration) and Youkilis, who is not only breaking down but who is not a clubhouse favorite. We could get a pretty nice haul in terms of young prospects for those two.

I certainly hope the FO doesn't do anything foolish this winter and jeopardize our chances in 2014.

I think the 2012 team is only a couple of moves from being a highly competitive team. They need one solid #4 starter so they can put Bard in the closer role. They need to get a good RH OF with good splits against lefties-- maybe Cody Ross. Plus get one more bullpen pitcher-- possibly Wheeler. That would be a very strong team. I wouldn't write them off.

[example1]

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111223&content_id=26230796&vkey=news_t533&fext=.jsp&sid=t533

 

Nice little piece about Tazawa. He's another guy we will likely see from the system this year. I like that he gets the Ks.

[FredLynn]

I don't think they're done with their acquisitions' date=' which is why it's being reported everywhere that they're in on guys such as Cordero, Oswalt and Kuroda. What this means is that they're not looking to get into multi-year contracts with their sights set on 2013 and beyond.[/quote']

 

The Sox are now quoted as being not very interested in either Cordero or Oswalt:

 

PeteAbe Pete Abraham @

Sox are not that high on Oswalt.

 

And this from Tomase of the Herald:

 

Francisco Cordero’s not coming

 

 

Sources: Club stops pursuit

 

The Red Sox [team stats] are careful to never say never, but it appears we can cross Francisco Cordero off the list of potential closers.

 

According to multiple sources, the Sox are backing off the Cincinnati Reds free agent reliever for a variety reasons, but mainly because the calculus of his age, potential salary and desire for a multi-year deal doesn’t add up to favorable numbers.

 

Haven't seen any rumors quashing Kuroda yet, but he is hardly going to change much on this team.

I applaud the team for doing nothing this year, or almost nothing. No sense wasting money and prospects when we are rebuilding.

[FredLynn]

I think the 2012 team is only a couple of moves from being a highly competitive team. They need one solid #4 starter so they can put Bard in the closer role. They need to get a good RH OF with good splits against lefties-- maybe Cody Ross. Plus get one more bullpen pitcher-- possibly Wheeler. That would be a very strong team. I wouldn't write them off.

 

As things stand right now, I would project them for about 90-92 wins at best and no playoffs. I expect Beckett NOT to repeat last year's performance and I expect Lester to continue to decline somewhat. We have three SP right now ( I am not counting Miller/Wakefield/Doubront as being able to contribute much more than warm bodies who impersonate SP) and the pen is in shambles. Jenks coming back is NOT a plus, and if Bard and Aceves become SP and throw 140-160 innings, our pen has been effectively raped. We will have no one there who is reliable.

Can't see us doing much more than rebuilding this year. Epstein left us in a major mess.

[User Name]

They do need a #4 starter. Signing an effective one on a one-year deal would help a lot for 2012.

[a700hitter]

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111223&content_id=26230796&vkey=news_t533&fext=.jsp&sid=t533

 

Nice little piece about Tazawa. He's another guy we will likely see from the system this year. I like that he gets the Ks.

He had good command of his pitches, but no major pitches. If he had continued his development without the interruption for injury, he probably would have been a back of the rotation guy for some team by this point. He is a depth option for 2012.

[a700hitter]

As things stand right now, I would project them for about 90-92 wins at best and no playoffs. I expect Beckett NOT to repeat last year's performance and I expect Lester to continue to decline somewhat. We have three SP right now ( I am not counting Miller/Wakefield/Doubront as being able to contribute much more than warm bodies who impersonate SP) and the pen is in shambles. Jenks coming back is NOT a plus, and if Bard and Aceves become SP and throw 140-160 innings, our pen has been effectively raped. We will have no one there who is reliable.

Can't see us doing much more than rebuilding this year. Epstein left us in a major mess.

My biggest concern for the 2012 team that could knock the Sox out of contention very quickly is whether Buchholz has any recurrence of his back issues.

[User Name]

As things stand right now, I would project them for about 90-92 wins at best and no playoffs. I expect Beckett NOT to repeat last year's performance and I expect Lester to continue to decline somewhat. We have three SP right now ( I am not counting Miller/Wakefield/Doubront as being able to contribute much more than warm bodies who impersonate SP) and the pen is in shambles. Jenks coming back is NOT a plus, and if Bard and Aceves become SP and throw 140-160 innings, our pen has been effectively raped. We will have no one there who is reliable.

Can't see us doing much more than rebuilding this year. Epstein left us in a major mess.

 

Is there a possibility of something good actually happening for the Red Sox on 2012, or does your prediction end in "and then a napalm missile completely destroyed Fenway Park"?

 

Jesus f***ing Christ.

[mvp 78]

2011's SP was a dumpster fire. Even moderate improvement would keep them on the same level as last year's team (when factoring in loss of Paps). This team (once all the remaining pieces are in place) can definitely contend for the playoffs. The SP isn't good enough for a WS as presently constructed, but should still be fun to watch.

 

What the Sox need is a #1 starter, not a #4. They have 3 #2's right now, but need a dominant ace, someone who can stop the bleeding during a poor stretch. Not sure if Cherbear would make that move this offseason though.

[User Name]

The Red Sox have a #1. His name is Jon Lester. Last year was just a bump on the road.

 

As for getting a #4, the market itself if prohibitive in terms of acquiring a #1 or #2, thus the need becomes a #4.

[FredLynn]

Is there a possibility of something good actually happening for the Red Sox on 2012, or does your prediction end in "and then a napalm missile completely destroyed Fenway Park"?

 

Jesus f***ing Christ.

 

I'd bet on the napalm for this year.

Some of you short-sighted chaps have no clue what the term "delayed gratification" means. You have the same entitlement attitude that some of the players have: the Sox OWE us being in contention every year. Is it possible for this year? Of course. Is it likely? Nope. As I told you, IMO this is a REBUILDING YEAR. That happens sometimes.

Oh- and Jesus Christ isn't here.

[User Name]

I'd bet on the napalm for this year.

Some of you short-sighted chaps have no clue what the term "delayed gratification" means. You have the same entitlement attitude that some of the players have: the Sox OWE us being in contention every year. Is it possible for this year? Of course. Is it likely? Nope. As I told you, IMO this is a REBUILDING YEAR. That happens sometimes.

Oh- and Jesus Christ isn't here.

 

What the f*** does this even mean? If someone on this site has been consistent in saying the Sox shouldn't mortgage the future to win now, that's me. However, that doesn't mean they can't make some short-term improvements that will allow them to improve the 2012 team without sacrificing the future.

 

Get off your high f***ing horse.

[FredLynn]

What the f*** does this even mean? If someone on this site has been consistent in saying the Sox shouldn't mortgage the future to win now, that's me. However, that doesn't mean they can't make some short-term improvements that will allow them to improve the 2012 team without sacrificing the future.

 

Get off your high f***ing horse.

 

You don't like what I write.

I could not care less. I express my opinion that we are not contending for a ring this year and you have a hissy fit.

But its me on the high horse.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[mvp 78]

I'd bet on the napalm for this year.

Some of you short-sighted chaps have no clue what the term "delayed gratification" means. You have the same entitlement attitude that some of the players have: the Sox OWE us being in contention every year. Is it possible for this year? Of course. Is it likely? Nope. As I told you, IMO this is a REBUILDING YEAR. That happens sometimes.

Oh- and Jesus Christ isn't here.

 

You shouldn't speak ill of SBF like this.

[FredLynn]

You shouldn't speak ill of SBF like this.

 

Funny.

Fred is pretty knowledgeable, but I don't recall him ever claiming to be a deity.

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox have a #1. His name is Jon Lester. Last year was just a bump on the road.

 

As for getting a #4, the market itself if prohibitive in terms of acquiring a #1 or #2, thus the need becomes a #4.

 

He's not even close to Clemens or Pedro production. The Sox deserve a real #1. I like Lester, just think he doesn't pitch with any cajones.

[FredLynn]

2011's SP was a dumpster fire. Even moderate improvement would keep them on the same level as last year's team (when factoring in loss of Paps). This team (once all the remaining pieces are in place) can definitely contend for the playoffs. The SP isn't good enough for a WS as presently constructed, but should still be fun to watch.

 

What the Sox need is a #1 starter, not a #4. They have 3 #2's right now, but need a dominant ace, someone who can stop the bleeding during a poor stretch. Not sure if Cherbear would make that move this offseason though.

 

I think that we WILL contend for the playoffs. We will lose out to teams with more solid pitching, in the end, but we should be in contention for most of the year. And I agree with you that we are not good enough to contend for a ring this year.

Good post.

[mvp 78]

Funny.

Fred is pretty knowledgeable, but I don't recall him ever claiming to be a deity.

 

No, but he has stated the Sox should be at WS level every year. He has the shortsidedness you deride.

[FredLynn]

No' date=' but he has stated the Sox should be at WS level every year. He has the shortsidedness you deride.[/quote']

 

Thats something I think every Sox fan HOPES for, but do you really think that anyone in their right mind expects us to play in the World Series every year?

[mvp 78]

Thats something I think every Sox fan HOPES for' date=' but do you really think that anyone in their right mind expects us to play in the World Series every year?[/quote']

 

I'm not sure that some people are in their right mind quite frankly.

[example1]

Anyone saying they aren't good enough to be in contention this year are f***ING CRAZY.

 

Seriously.

 

This is a rebuilding year? Are you serious? They are about to sign Ortiz to an overpay one year contract. You don't do that if you're rebuilding. They have two players who will be getting an AAV over 20m and that pay essentially starts this year and goes for another 6 or 7 years. Rebuilding? Seriously?

 

They have three pitchers in their primes, all of whom have been All Stars in the past two years. They have a few holes in their pitching staff, but will be addressing those before the season starts.

 

They have the best offense in baseball, have gold glovers all over the field and multiple silver sluggers. They have three players who finished in the top 10 in MVP voting, and were the 3rd, 5th and 6th most valuable players in the AL according to WAR.

 

You would have to assume that this FO is not just incompetent, but is all-time great incompetent to do some rebuilding project for future years. All those years they didn't trade Buchholz, Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia were for these seasons.

 

Pumpsie, to theorize that a rebuilding season is the only sensible thing they can do is absurd. Laughable.

 

You are joking, right? You really think Cherington is going to undertake a rebuilding this year?

[User Name]

Funny.

Fred is pretty knowledgeable, but I don't recall him ever claiming to be a deity.

 

No, that's you. Calling others short-sighted. Being a constant explosion of negativity is what's really short-sighted. Think about that for a second.

 

BWahahahaha or whatever.

[User Name]

Anyone saying they aren't good enough to be in contention this year are f***ING CRAZY.

 

Seriously.

 

This is a rebuilding year? Are you serious? They are about to sign Ortiz to an overpay one year contract. You don't do that if you're rebuilding. They have two players who will be getting an AAV over 20m and that pay essentially starts this year and goes for another 6 or 7 years. Rebuilding? Seriously?

 

They have three pitchers in their primes, all of whom have been All Stars in the past two years. They have a few holes in their pitching staff, but will be addressing those before the season starts.

 

They have the best offense in baseball, have gold glovers all over the field and multiple silver sluggers. They have three players who finished in the top 10 in MVP voting, and were the 3rd, 5th and 6th most valuable players in the AL according to WAR.

 

You would have to assume that this FO is not just incompetent, but is all-time great incompetent to do some rebuilding project for future years. All those years they didn't trade Buchholz, Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia were for these seasons.

 

Pumpsie, to theorize that a rebuilding season is the only sensible thing they can do is absurd. Laughable.

 

You are joking, right? You really think Cherington is going to undertake a rebuilding this year?

 

DON'T YOU TALK LIKE THAT TO THE ONLY GUY WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THE SOX SHOULD AND ARE GOING TO DO.

 

Good post though.

[User Name]

He's not even close to Clemens or Pedro production. The Sox deserve a real #1. I like Lester' date=' just think he doesn't pitch with any cajones.[/quote']

 

That's generational talent, and a ridiculously high standard to be held to.

 

Lester is a bit wild, but he does have cojones. At his best, he is a stopper, and overall, provides ace-level production, but seems kind of immature. I believe, for some reason, that he will react with a season for the ages after he was implicated in Chicken-and-Beer-gate.

[FredLynn]

Anyone saying they aren't good enough to be in contention this year are f***ING CRAZY.

 

Seriously.

 

This is a rebuilding year? Are you serious? They are about to sign Ortiz to an overpay one year contract. You don't do that if you're rebuilding. They have two players who will be getting an AAV over 20m and that pay essentially starts this year and goes for another 6 or 7 years. Rebuilding? Seriously?

 

They have three pitchers in their primes, all of whom have been All Stars in the past two years. They have a few holes in their pitching staff, but will be addressing those before the season starts.

 

They have the best offense in baseball, have gold glovers all over the field and multiple silver sluggers. They have three players who finished in the top 10 in MVP voting, and were the 3rd, 5th and 6th most valuable players in the AL according to WAR.

 

You would have to assume that this FO is not just incompetent, but is all-time great incompetent to do some rebuilding project for future years. All those years they didn't trade Buchholz, Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia were for these seasons.

 

Pumpsie, to theorize that a rebuilding season is the only sensible thing they can do is absurd. Laughable.

 

You are joking, right? You really think Cherington is going to undertake a rebuilding this year?

 

Rebuilding is different for the Red Sox than it is for, say, the Twins. We do not have to start from scratch as some other teams do. When I refer to "rebuilding" I mean that we are trying to rebuild a team that can realistically compete for a ring. As I said earlier, we will most likely compete for a playoff position, but IMO the team will fall short of that too. For those people who think that winning 90 games next year represents contending, it will be a great year for them. For me, a very good year is going deep into the playoffs and at least having a shot at the fall classic. I don't see that happening next year, and I have some very good reasons for believing that even if Username keeps having hissy fits at regular intervals in response to what I write.

And Ortiz was offered arbitration not because the FO was drooling at the prospect of overpaying him this year, but because they wanted the two draft choices if he signed somewhere else, which would have been likely had they not offered arbitration. The rolled the dice and lost. Now they are even worse off, if only for one year.

[User Name]

Oh no, i gave pumpsie's feelings a boo-boo. I sincerely apologize.

[FredLynn]

No, that's you. Calling others short-sighted. Being a constant explosion of negativity is what's really short-sighted. Think about that for a second.

 

BWahahahaha or whatever.

 

Just pointing out that it is YOU who is flying off the handle about what I write, not the reverse.

And reminding you that some of the nonsense you write DOES reflect short-sightedness.

[FredLynn]

Oh no' date=' i gave pumpsie's feelings a boo-boo. I sincerely apologize.[/quote']

 

As I said, I could not care less if you like what I write, and I most certainly do not give a damn what you write about me. Don't overestimate the value of your opinion here: its frequently worthless.

[a700hitter]

Anyone saying they aren't good enough to be in contention this year are f***ING CRAZY.

 

Seriously.

 

This is a rebuilding year? Are you serious? They are about to sign Ortiz to an overpay one year contract. You don't do that if you're rebuilding. They have two players who will be getting an AAV over 20m and that pay essentially starts this year and goes for another 6 or 7 years. Rebuilding? Seriously?

 

They have three pitchers in their primes, all of whom have been All Stars in the past two years. They have a few holes in their pitching staff, but will be addressing those before the season starts.

 

They have the best offense in baseball, have gold glovers all over the field and multiple silver sluggers. They have three players who finished in the top 10 in MVP voting, and were the 3rd, 5th and 6th most valuable players in the AL according to WAR.

 

You would have to assume that this FO is not just incompetent, but is all-time great incompetent to do some rebuilding project for future years. All those years they didn't trade Buchholz, Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia were for these seasons.

 

Pumpsie, to theorize that a rebuilding season is the only sensible thing they can do is absurd. Laughable.

 

You are joking, right? You really think Cherington is going to undertake a rebuilding this year?

I agree with you that this team is a few tweaks from a very good club. I've been saying it all along. There are a few holes that need tending to, but nothing major.

 

But do we need to call people "f***ING CRAZY". You are always talking about the FO takes a measured and considerate approach to making moves and you talk about subtleties, but you call someone who disagrees with you f***ING CRAZY? We can just debate the issues without this. Let me reiterate, I agree with you on this issue. I disagree with Pumpsie, but come on.