2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

I don't think the Sox will be in the running for Darvish whether V likes him or not. I suspect it will be more about whether LL likes the PR value-of Darvish even more than he liked the PR value of dice. With dice we got the juice about his interpreter and the posting fee...blah blah blah. Now the Sox have V' date=' and the PR they can generate from having a manager that actually speaks the language and understands how a Japanese pitcher wants to work. How much PR can they spin out of that? Can't you see it? V heads out to the mound and both V and Darvish bow to each other before and after the mound discussion. Pure PR gold![/quote']There is no PR value for the Red Sox in getting a pitcher from Japan. Dice k produced no income stream from Japan-- zilch.

[FredLynn]

Like I said a few months ago...if they can be a scratchy tough team that comes out and plays in every game' date=' given everything that has happened I can be OK with that. Beckett is not helping matters complaining about V's comments regarding Beckett's time between pitches even though V made those comments as an analyst. When will Beckett just learn to shut up and pitch. Seems to me that Beckett is beginning to make it impossible for him to stay. Maybe that is what he wants....out![/quote']

 

I read that too and had the same reaction to it as you did. I interpret Beckett's nonsense as further evidence that he is a recalcitrant stubborn overpaid dolt and I would love to see those comments result in getting rid of him. That would free up some cash for a pitcher who may not be quite as talented but who does not openly challenge his manager. Beckett should have responded with "I think thats a valid criticism and one we will be discussing in preseason" rather than "getting pissed" at his superior.

[FredLynn]

I think the team is salvageable this season. They might need to break through the LT cap' date=' but not by a lot. I like Bard and Aceves in the rotation. They should be an upgrade over last season and the top 3 are strong. We just need a RH OFer to split time with Kalish or Reddick. The hardest thing will be to build a bullpen from scratch. With Aceves and Bard in the rotation and Paps gone, all we have is a fat Jenks with a bad back. It will take a lot of skill to build a good bullpen from scratch, but it can be done. Tampa did it last year. If Ben can do it this year, he will have done something that Theo never did.[/quote']

 

How many innings apiece do you think Bard and Aceves are capable of tossing in their first year of being a SP? Maybe 160? That means that we are down to our 6th and 7th SP on the depth chart-and we all know how that turned out last year. Not saying we shouldn't give it a try, but the results may not be excellent.

[a700hitter]

I read that too and had the same reaction to it as you did. I interpret Beckett's nonsense as further evidence that he is a recalcitrant stubborn overpaid dolt and I would love to see those comments result in getting rid of him. That would free up some cash for a pitcher who may not be quite as talented but who does not openly challenge his manager. Beckett should have responded with "I think thats a valid criticism and one we will be discussing in preseason" rather than "getting pissed" at his superior.

Since 2008 I have known that he is a self-centered prima dona. The shenanigans this year confirmed that opinion and this latest BS shows it even further.

[a700hitter]

How many innings apiece do you think Bard and Aceves are capable of tossing in their first year of being a SP? Maybe 160? That means that we are down to our 6th and 7th SP on the depth chart-and we all know how that turned out last year. Not saying we shouldn't give it a try' date=' but the results may not be excellent.[/quote']If we get 160 out of them and 190 out of the top 3, we should be in good shape. We'll need a swingman to get about 100 innings, e.g Miller. Thats' almost 1,000 innings.

[jung]

I was not talking about Japan. That whole dice thing had a degree of mystery and oh-ah appeal to it that does not accompany the normal pitcher signing. Frankly I don't think there is much of a chance that Darvish ends up here but the Sox love those oh-ah deals.

[jung]

Any idea what lit the fire under the Angels this year? Seems much more impressive than one would have expected for them.

[jacksonianmarch]

They have been waiting for their slugger to come along and they found him

[jung]

Yea but they signed CJ on the same day, That is a wow for them. I hope this does not get Miami revitalized about Madson again. Miami seems determined not to let anybody one up them for very long this off season. Not sure they can really respond to the kind of day the Angels had.

[jacksonianmarch]

Miami wont be going for Madson. They cannot offer him the closers job. I think the Marlins become the favorite for Fielder now

[jung]

Miami went after Madson once already this offseason and he rejected their offer whatever it was.

 

Although maybe they are happy with their pitching moves having landed Buehrle.

[jung]

I wonder if the Rangers and Angels represent something of a shift in strength away from the AL East. The Red Sox need to fill holes and this does not look like the year when they get it done. The Yanks will be retooling to a degree at some point as they are aging but have a decent bunch of guys in the minors that are not quite ready yet but not that far off either. Wonder if this next couple years will be years when the teams in the west have enough horsepower and find it easier getting to the top of the heap. Maybe its their time to may hay for a while. then again the Angels might feel obliged to keep filling in pieces around Albert for the next six or seven years anyway.

[iortiz]

A blockbuster move by the Sox. :lol:It looks like I had correctly interpreted BC's "under the radar" remark as dumpster diving.

 

Under the radar?... This guy is even better doing that than a Stealth Aircraft

 

I don't know you guys but I'm starting to worry. day after day pass, and out there are less options and any solid move yet at our pitching.

 

Are all our moves going to be Stealth Aircrafts? Scary.

[jacksonianmarch]

A blockbuster move by the Sox. :lol:It looks like I had correctly interpreted BC's "under the radar" remark as dumpster diving.

 

I played baseball against him in high school. Never really threw that hard, but a very deceptive motion. Was pretty solid with Toronto until he blew out his shoulder. If he can come back to form, he could be very useful

[seabeachfred]

I think the team is salvageable this season. They might need to break through the LT cap' date=' but not by a lot. I like Bard and Aceves in the rotation. They should be an upgrade over last season and the top 3 are strong. We just need a RH OFer to split time with Kalish or Reddick. The hardest thing will be to build a bullpen from scratch. With Aceves and Bard in the rotation and Paps gone, all we have is a fat Jenks with a bad back. It will take a lot of skill to build a good bullpen from scratch, but it can be done. Tampa did it last year. If Ben can do it this year, he will have done something that Theo never did.[/quote']

 

It's great to see you upbeat 700 and I wish I could join you in that, but the numbers and mindset of the front office seem to be working against us. You like Bard and Aceves in the rotation??? I'm leery of it even though you and most pundits on the baseball scene insist you win with starting pitching. However, we have no closer, no 8th inning man, no set up man, just guys like Jenks, Morales, Weiland and God knows who else. Trying to build a credible bullpen from the scrap heap usually doesn't bear fruit and we have not been too successful in building bullpens the past few years. I do hope you're right, though. Since 2012 will be the 100th Anniversary of Fenway Park you would think Henry and Co. would go all out to make it a memorable year.

[SoxSport]

Since 2008 I have known that he is a self-centered prima dona. The shenanigans this year confirmed that opinion and this latest BS shows it even further.

 

There's more than one prima donna on this team--in case you haven't noticed.

[jung]

Well at least when I talk about starting pitching I am not banking on two guys that have never started before saving my bacon for me. Aceves and Bard both may be forced into SP roles out of necessity this year but that hardly qualifies as anything more than a role of the dice.

 

But I am not going to be hard to please this year...well maybe I am going to be hard to please considering how the team finished the year. However I just want an honest hard nosed dirty uniform game day in and day out and if they give me that, what with everything else going on I can live with that. I just want them to compete this year. I want them to be smart at the plate. I want them to give themselves up when they should and play for each other. Who knows, if they do play "dirt dog" baseball day in and day out they might just surprise all of us.

 

If they show signs of packing it in at any point this year, they are likely to get booed right off the field I think and I might just be forced to join in with the crowd.

[jung]

Boy the old home teams can't catch a break tonight. The Bruins ring 4 posts tonight and lose the game in the last 2:44 of the 3rd period having never scored the entire game.

 

The C's apparently lose their bid for CP3 leaving them with a Rondo that knows they have been trying to move him. We know what a fragile noodle he has.

 

The Sox continue an off season so far marked by futility. I am beginning to wonder if I should bet the farm on Washington on Sunday and take the points.

[seabeachfred]

Sox Sport, first you....Spot on my friend. We most certainly have more than one prima donna on the Red Sox, but you would think that some old fashioned pride would inspire them to go all out to make up for their miserable performance this past season. If we don't see a more determined and less selfish effort next season, we'll all know lickity split that we have a real pig of a team on our hands. Maybe they will pleasantly surprise all of us.

 

As for you Jung, you won't be alone in the booing if we see a repeat of what went down this past season. The players have to plant their feet down hard and make a stand and show everyone that they have learned from their errors and will be damned if they don't take it to their adversaries next season. These guys are professionals; you have to think they would show enough guts and pride to make a concerted effort to give us a team we can be proud of, wouldn't you?

 

Of course, it would be nice if Benny the Bozo would be able to make a decision and sign a couple of quality players and for Henry the Prune Face to ante up some money to make it happen. The 100th Year Anniversary of Fenway Park Johnny boy. You own the team, we love the team you own, give us a chance to win next season.

 

My sympathy for you stops at the water's edge of Fenway Park. They are the only Boston team I root for. Being a Californian, my basketball loyalty is to the LA Lakers and I'm jumping in anticipation in the hope that we can trade for Dwight Howard this season. It would be nice to see my favorite basketball player playing for my favorite team.

[SoxSport]

Sox Sport, first you....Spot on my friend. We most certainly have more than one prima donna on the Red Sox, but you would think that some old fashioned pride would inspire them to go all out to make up for their miserable performance this past season. If we don't see a more determined and less selfish effort next season, we'll all know lickity split that we have a real pig of a team on our hands. Maybe they will pleasantly surprise all of us.

 

 

You can blame it on the laissez faire atmosphere on the Sox promoted by Francona.

He figured it was the best way to get a bunch of millionaires to play for him, but they turned against him in the end. He lost control. And they became just a bunch of individuals playing for themselves.

They need more structure and discipline to get back to being a team again. That's why Valentine is here.

[SoxSport]

Boy the old home teams can't catch a break tonight. The Bruins ring 4 posts tonight and lose the game in the last 2:44 of the 3rd period having never scored the entire game.

 

The C's apparently lose their bid for CP3 leaving them with a Rondo that knows they have been trying to move him. We know what a fragile noodle he has.

 

The Sox continue an off season so far marked by futility. I am beginning to wonder if I should bet the farm on Washington on Sunday and take the points.

 

Ain't over yet. Stern cancelled the LA deal. Paul is staying put.

The NBA has the same problem as MLB--no hard salary cap means big TV market dominance. Mainly LA and NY. Note how the Angels are flexing their muscles with their new Fox TV contract.The Marlins will walk the plank if they don't fill their new stadium.

[SCM33]

Lets cut Ben some slack' date=' Theo left him a pile of hot garbage and chump change to work with. The guy went into free agency with $8-9mil to sign 2 starters, a closer and a RF yet people bitch about the moves he's not making when instead they should be bitching about Theo abandoning a ship he stirred into rough waters.[/quote']

 

Where do you get this 8-9 million dollar amount to work with at the winter meetings? This is the Redsox, not the KC Royals. Blaming Theo is a cop out, that gets us nowhere.

 

There is no PR value for the Red Sox in getting a pitcher from Japan. Dice k produced no income stream from Japan-- zilch.

 

For the love of god I hope they stay away from Darvish or any other player from that league. There are only 2 players who have come from that league who have lived up to their hype (somehwhat). Ichiro and Mastui.

 

I was not talking about Japan. That whole dice thing had a degree of mystery and oh-ah appeal to it that does not accompany the normal pitcher signing. Frankly I don't think there is much of a chance that Darvish ends up here but the Sox love those oh-ah deals.

 

Who gives a s*** about oh-ah and mystery. Sign some friggin players who can play the game.

 

Talk about laying a turd thus far in the offseason. The manager search took 3 months and we havent done a friggin thing since......except lose our closer and re-sign an aging DH for 15 million.

[jung]

Wow Stern nixed the LA deal....interesting. Unfortunately CP3 has tried everything under the sun to stay out of Boston so while LA won't get him now I don't think Boston will either.

[SoxSport]

Wow Stern nixed the LA deal....interesting. Unfortunately CP3 has tried everything under the sun to stay out of Boston so while LA won't get him now I don't think Boston will either.

 

Basically, the owners don't want the players dictating which team they are traded to.

Free agency is a different story. Paul is now likely to wind up with the Knicks next year

unless the Hornets are allowed to trade him to another team.

 

MLB has the same problem without a hard salary cap. The big market teams dominate.

The Angels' spending spree might backfire because Pujols is showing signs of decline.

And the Marlins are out on a long limb.

 

The Red Sox may just be sitting pretty doing nothing. Let the market come to them.

[example1]

That's exactly what the sox are doing, waiting out the market and taking the best of what's around at that point. Bullpen arms are so freaking variable that I can't say I blame them once the best arms are gone.

 

I doubt it is strategy they can use every year but when short of money it makes sense.

 

Also, it's not that they are short of money, there is just a huge disincentive to break the LT again this year which will open better opportunities for the future.

 

All that said I wouldn't hate it if they blew it up for Darvish if they think he is the real deal. He'll, there is nothing wrong with winning the posting just to keep him from the Yankees and Rangers. I suspect they feel the same way though. There could be a huge price for this posting.

[a700hitter]

There's more than one prima donna on this team--in case you haven't noticed.

That type of attitude tends to spread if it goes unchecked.

[a700hitter]

Under the radar?... This guy is even better doing that than a Stealth Aircraft

 

I don't know you guys but I'm starting to worry. day after day pass, and out there are less options and any solid move yet at our pitching.

 

Are all our moves going to be Stealth Aircrafts? Scary.

Stealth Aircraft. :lol: Very funny.

[a700hitter]

It's great to see you upbeat 700 and I wish I could join you in that' date=' but the numbers and mindset of the front office seem to be working against us. You like Bard and Aceves in the rotation??? I'm leery of it even though you and most pundits on the baseball scene insist you win with starting pitching. However, we have no closer, no 8th inning man, no set up man, just guys like Jenks, Morales, Weiland and God knows who else. Trying to build a credible bullpen from the scrap heap usually doesn't bear fruit and we have not been too successful in building bullpens the past few years. I do hope you're right, though. Since 2012 will be the 100th Anniversary of Fenway Park you would think Henry and Co. would go all out to make it a memorable year.[/quote']I wouldn't say that I am upbeat, but rather clinging to hope.

[FredLynn]

Wow Stern nixed the LA deal....interesting. Unfortunately CP3 has tried everything under the sun to stay out of Boston so while LA won't get him now I don't think Boston will either.

 

The league OWNS the Hornets. Up until now they have allowed the Hornets' management to do what they like. However, if Paul is traded the value of the team decreases. The league is trying to protect its assets.

[FredLynn]

They have been waiting for their slugger to come along and they found him

 

They Angels are going to regret this deal. Pujols is truly great now; he will also be 32 years old soon. How productive will he be when he is 35 or 36? Even if he is productive then that still leaves about six years of overpaying him. I am glad the Angels made that deal and not us.