2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

From Benny Boy:

 

Any progress with pitchers at the meetings? "We made progress but nothing close. We'll continue to do a lot of work. I think we have a good idea of what we may or may not be able to do. I think on the pitching front we felt like all along it was really going to be an all-winter project and some of the moves would be very under-the-radar. There may be some that are more on the radar. But we have a much better idea of what's out there and what would it take than we did on Monday."

Translation: We have no plan, but we will probably go dumpster diving. Jamie Moyer wants to make a comeback.

[a700hitter]

More incoherence from Babbling Ben

On the Angels getting Pujols and Wilson: "Aggressive moves and certainly putting their front foot forward; in the American League West for certain and in the American League in general. There's a lot of good teams in the league and a lot that will be very competitive. Texas and Anaheim going after each other. A bunch of teams that are in pretty good shape going into 2012 to compete in October. Big moves. Pujols in the American League, it'll be fun to see him play more."

[a700hitter]

More from Ben:

On the Theo Epstein compensation issue: "A plan? We loosely defined a strategy of talking at some point in the near future. We'll resolve it at some point."

[Elktonnick]

More from Ben:

 

I am sure the middle east conflict will be solved at some point too. I suspect sooner than Ben making any kind of coherent timely decision.

[SoxSport]

Seems as though first impressions of Ben C. are hardening after 3 days of inactivity in Dallas.

 

What was Bobby V. doing down there? Looks like just spending Red Sox PR dollars.

[Elktonnick]

Seems as though first impressions of Ben C. are hardening after 3 days of inactivity in Dallas.

 

What was Bobby V. doing down there? Looks like just spending Red Sox PR dollars.

 

HuH? Bobby V is the on field manager. What are he or any other manager supposed to do at the winter meetings?

[redsoxfan3]

There has been a lot of negative talk towards BC over the winter meetings. I know a lot of fans aren't happy because the best we could come up with is resigning Papi and Miller. Also, I'm sure a lot of people already know that BC is going to wait a little bit before he makes moves in the free agent market to see if he can get "bargains." That leaves me with a question for everyone. We are virtually the same team as last year, which at one point was the best team in baseball. We don't have Papelbon, Lackey, Wakefield, Bedard, and Varitek for next year. The only real loss there is Papelbon. My question to everyone is who were you guys expecting us to sign at the winter meetings?

 

Both Bard and Aceves are going to prepare in Spring Training as starting pitchers. That right there completes our rotation. We have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Aceves, and Bard in the rotation. Andrew Miller will also be competing for a spot. If that is the so called rotation to expect for opening day, then we have Miller as an option to fill-in if we are plagued with injuries. Also, we signed one other guy to a minor league contract and an invite to Spring Training. I don't remember his name, but he pitched for the Blue Jays and say out last year if I remember right. That is 7 pitchers figthing for starting spots on this team.

 

That leaves our only real spots to fill in the bullpen. We are still in talks with Ryan Madson. He is not off of the table. Also, for those who want a starting pitcher, Roy Oswalt is still available as an option for this team. I know that JH does not want to go over the luxury tax, but if it comes to it, we might. We have to get a closer, a set-up man, a 7th inning man, and maybe one or two more arms in the pen. We are in talks with the A's, Rangers, and White Sox about pitching in general. If we can pull the trigger with trading for Bailey or signing Madson, then the closer role is filled. We are still interested in Luis Ayala. He could be our 7th inning guy if we sign him. There are still trade options out there and there are still pitchers left in the market.

 

If we get a closer and sign Ayala, that means we have to come up with a set-up man or another starting pitcher. If we get the set-up man, then Bard and Aceves stay in the rotation. If we get another starter, then we could put Aceves or Bard in the set-up role, probably Bard again. The scenario could work out for us. There are still options out there, so there is no need for fans to panic, because I can guarantee you that this team has some sort of plan.

 

Like I said before, we still are basically the same team as last year, minus our great closer. We actually improve by losing Wakefield and Lackey for the year, except in terms of depth in the rotation. I know that no one wants Dice-K to return to this team, but he is expected to be ready to play some time this summer. That just adds more to our pitching depth. He might be able to fill-in like Wakefield did if we are plagued by injuries. Our offense is going to be good. I know that everyone wants a RH right fielder, but that is not an essential need, because we still have Reddick with Kalish hopefully going to return.

 

We also lose Varitek, but we have Lavarnway as a backup, maybe even splitting time with Salty at catcher. We kind of improve at catcher, at least offensively. We will more than likely add a RH hitter in the outfield. I don't know who at this point, most likely someone cheap who can be a utility outfielder for us, getting most of the action in RF. That is the least of our worries. The offense will still be as good as last year.

 

We need to focus on nothing but pitching going forward. We have flexibility in what we can do as well with both Bard and Aceves willing to move to the rotation. We may go over the luxury tax, we might not, if not we will still be a contender. Lowrie, Kalish, and Reddick are all trade bait for potential pitchers. Why keep Lowrie or Reddick? We have Aviles who is already a utility infielder. We have Kalish who is going to be a LH right fielder like Reddick. There is no point in keeping both.

 

For me, I would love for us to sign Madson, Ayala, and Oswalt and keep Bard in the set-up role and move Aceves to the rotation. That might not be realistic, because that means we are going to be breaking the luxury tax, but it is very possible. I'm hoping that we can work out a deal with Papi for the next two years, instead of paying him $14 or $15 million this next year. We can probably reduce it down to $20 or $22 million for him over two years and free up $3 or $4 million per year over the next two years. That three million right there could go into signing Ayala, which would be a good move in my opinion.

 

I think a lot of people forget that this team is really the same as last season. Papelbon earned $12 million last year. If they want to replace his salary with another closer, why not invest in Ryan Madson? He won't cost as much and would be reliable. Oswalt made $16 million in 2011. Oswalt is looking for a three year deal at probably $13 to $14 million per year. So, I don't know which route we will take. Madson is probably looking at a 4 year deal around $10 million per year. That would be $23 million for both, with another $10 to $15 with Papi. Miller cost us $1 million. So far we are probably looking at $16 million at the most that we have spent. That doesn't give us much room to work with in regards to the luxury tax. We will probably see a strong push in trading for a closer.

 

At this point, there are a lot of questions to be answered. If we are willing to break the luxury tax, why not try to sign Oswalt, Madson, and Ayala. If we aren't willing to break the luxury tax, then sign Ayala, try to trade for Bailey, and try to trade for a starting pitcher or someone to fill the set-up role. We could also think about possibly taking a chance on Joel Zumaya as a set-up man. We supposedly are going to be at his workout that he is having soon. Imagin these two scenarios:

 

Scenario 1 (breaking the luxury tax):

Rotation-

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Oswalt

Aceves

 

7th- Ayala

Set-up- Bard

Closer- Madson

 

Scenario 2 (staying under the luxury tax, a risky decision):

Rotation-

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Aceves

Bard

 

7th- Ayala

Set-up- Zumaya

Closer- Bailey

 

Obviously the first option is the better one, but the second one could work out. If Zumaya become reliable and we trade for Bailey, then a that could be a bonus for us. That is a big IF on Zumaya though. Don't forget we will be getting Jenks and Dice-K back at some point. IF we get some productivity out of Jenks, then both Jenks and Zumaya could be reliable late innning guys for us. I like Ayala in the 7th-inning role no matter what. I think he is worth $3 million a year. I want Aceves in the rotation no matter what, he deserves the shot. Miller will probably have to be in the pen and possibly be a spot starter on some occasions.

 

Whatever route we choose to go, I feel we will be a competitor in 2012. Also, don't read too much into my scenarios. I am just throwing things out there. I would probably have someone else in that set-up role in scenario 2, but it might be worth a shot. There is a lot we could do this offseason and there is still a lot of time left. We aren't going to be sitting around doing nothing the entire offseason. Everyday the FO is working on possible moves. We will put together a solid team that will compete. Just hang in there and don't be too quick to judge the FO, especially BC.

[a700hitter]

There has been a lot of negative talk towards BC over the winter meetings. I know a lot of fans aren't happy because the best we could come up with is resigning Papi and Miller. Also, I'm sure a lot of people already know that BC is going to wait a little bit before he makes moves in the free agent market to see if he can get "bargains." That leaves me with a question for everyone. We are virtually the same team as last year, which at one point was the best team in baseball. We don't have Papelbon, Lackey, Wakefield, Bedard, and Varitek for next year. The only real loss there is Papelbon. My question to everyone is who were you guys expecting us to sign at the winter meetings?

 

Both Bard and Aceves are going to prepare in Spring Training as starting pitchers. That right there completes our rotation. We have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Aceves, and Bard in the rotation. Andrew Miller will also be competing for a spot. If that is the so called rotation to expect for opening day, then we have Miller as an option to fill-in if we are plagued with injuries. Also, we signed one other guy to a minor league contract and an invite to Spring Training. I don't remember his name, but he pitched for the Blue Jays and say out last year if I remember right. That is 7 pitchers figthing for starting spots on this team.

 

That leaves our only real spots to fill in the bullpen. We are still in talks with Ryan Madson. He is not off of the table. Also, for those who want a starting pitcher, Roy Oswalt is still available as an option for this team. I know that JH does not want to go over the luxury tax, but if it comes to it, we might. We have to get a closer, a set-up man, a 7th inning man, and maybe one or two more arms in the pen. We are in talks with the A's, Rangers, and White Sox about pitching in general. If we can pull the trigger with trading for Bailey or signing Madson, then the closer role is filled. We are still interested in Luis Ayala. He could be our 7th inning guy if we sign him. There are still trade options out there and there are still pitchers left in the market.

 

If we get a closer and sign Ayala, that means we have to come up with a set-up man or another starting pitcher. If we get the set-up man, then Bard and Aceves stay in the rotation. If we get another starter, then we could put Aceves or Bard in the set-up role, probably Bard again. The scenario could work out for us. There are still options out there, so there is no need for fans to panic, because I can guarantee you that this team has some sort of plan.

 

Like I said before, we still are basically the same team as last year, minus our great closer. We actually improve by losing Wakefield and Lackey for the year, except in terms of depth in the rotation. I know that no one wants Dice-K to return to this team, but he is expected to be ready to play some time this summer. That just adds more to our pitching depth. He might be able to fill-in like Wakefield did if we are plagued by injuries. Our offense is going to be good. I know that everyone wants a RH right fielder, but that is not an essential need, because we still have Reddick with Kalish hopefully going to return.

 

We also lose Varitek, but we have Lavarnway as a backup, maybe even splitting time with Salty at catcher. We kind of improve at catcher, at least offensively. We will more than likely add a RH hitter in the outfield. I don't know who at this point, most likely someone cheap who can be a utility outfielder for us, getting most of the action in RF. That is the least of our worries. The offense will still be as good as last year.

 

We need to focus on nothing but pitching going forward. We have flexibility in what we can do as well with both Bard and Aceves willing to move to the rotation. We may go over the luxury tax, we might not, if not we will still be a contender. Lowrie, Kalish, and Reddick are all trade bait for potential pitchers. Why keep Lowrie or Reddick? We have Aviles who is already a utility infielder. We have Kalish who is going to be a LH right fielder like Reddick. There is no point in keeping both.

 

For me, I would love for us to sign Madson, Ayala, and Oswalt and keep Bard in the set-up role and move Aceves to the rotation. That might not be realistic, because that means we are going to be breaking the luxury tax, but it is very possible. I'm hoping that we can work out a deal with Papi for the next two years, instead of paying him $14 or $15 million this next year. We can probably reduce it down to $20 or $22 million for him over two years and free up $3 or $4 million per year over the next two years. That three million right there could go into signing Ayala, which would be a good move in my opinion.

 

I think a lot of people forget that this team is really the same as last season. Papelbon earned $12 million last year. If they want to replace his salary with another closer, why not invest in Ryan Madson? He won't cost as much and would be reliable. Oswalt made $16 million in 2011. Oswalt is looking for a three year deal at probably $13 to $14 million per year. So, I don't know which route we will take. Madson is probably looking at a 4 year deal around $10 million per year. That would be $23 million for both, with another $10 to $15 with Papi. Miller cost us $1 million. So far we are probably looking at $16 million at the most that we have spent. That doesn't give us much room to work with in regards to the luxury tax. We will probably see a strong push in trading for a closer.

 

At this point, there are a lot of questions to be answered. If we are willing to break the luxury tax, why not try to sign Oswalt, Madson, and Ayala. If we aren't willing to break the luxury tax, then sign Ayala, try to trade for Bailey, and try to trade for a starting pitcher or someone to fill the set-up role. We could also think about possibly taking a chance on Joel Zumaya as a set-up man. We supposedly are going to be at his workout that he is having soon. Imagin these two scenarios:

 

Scenario 1 (breaking the luxury tax):

Rotation-

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Oswalt

Aceves

 

7th- Ayala

Set-up- Bard

Closer- Madson

 

Scenario 2 (staying under the luxury tax, a risky decision):

Rotation-

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Aceves

Bard

 

7th- Ayala

Set-up- Zumaya

Closer- Bailey

 

Obviously the first option is the better one, but the second one could work out. If Zumaya become reliable and we trade for Bailey, then a that could be a bonus for us. That is a big IF on Zumaya though. Don't forget we will be getting Jenks and Dice-K back at some point. IF we get some productivity out of Jenks, then both Jenks and Zumaya could be reliable late innning guys for us. I like Ayala in the 7th-inning role no matter what. I think he is worth $3 million a year. I want Aceves in the rotation no matter what, he deserves the shot. Miller will probably have to be in the pen and possibly be a spot starter on some occasions.

 

Whatever route we choose to go, I feel we will be a competitor in 2012. Also, don't read too much into my scenarios. I am just throwing things out there. I would probably have someone else in that set-up role in scenario 2, but it might be worth a shot. There is a lot we could do this offseason and there is still a lot of time left. We are going to be sitting around doing nothing the entire offseason. Everyday the FO is working on possible moves. We will put together a solid team that will compete. Just hang in there and don't be too quick to judge the FO, especially BC.

Please stop with Ayala. The guy is terrible. If he is our 7th inning guy, our starters had better always go 7. As for the rest of your proposal, you are basically saying be patient. It will fall into place. Maybe it will and maybe it will not. We have nothing to discuss at this point other than the possible scenarios. One thing is for certain. There are fewer available options today than there were on Monday.

[redsoxfan3]

Please stop with Ayala. The guy is terrible. If he is our 7th inning guy' date=' our starters had better always go 7. As for the rest of your proposal, you are basically saying be patient. It will fall into place. Maybe it will and maybe it will not. We have nothing to discuss at this point other than the possible scenarios. One thing is for certain. There are fewer available options today than there were on Monday.[/quote']

 

I agree with you on everything, except Ayala. To be fair to him, he has had good seasons and terrible seasons, just because of the terrible seasons he has had you can't make the assessment he is terrible. I am intrigued about the success he has had early in his career and last year. He has gotten back on track. He had a 2.09 ERA last year with a 1.268 WHIP in 52 games (I'm on my phone, so I'm doing this from memory, so correct me of I'm wrong). I would say that is far from terrible. His ERA was good and his WHIP was definitely not terrible. I think he is worth a shot, especially if he can duplicate his numbers from last year. Those numbers are reliable for a 7th inning guy, so if we get that kind of production and can sign him to a 3 million contract, I'm all for it.

[Dojji]

Trade for Joakim Soria?

[a700hitter]

I agree with you on everything' date=' except Ayala. To be fair to him, he has had good seasons and terrible seasons, just because of the terrible seasons he has had you can't make the assessment he is terrible. I am intrigued about the success he has had early in his career and last year. He has gotten back on track. He had a 2.09 ERA last year with a 1.268 WHIP in 52 games (I'm on my phone, so I'm doing this from memory, so correct me of I'm wrong). I would say that is far from terrible. His ERA was good and his WHIP was definitely not terrible. I think he is worth a shot, especially if he can duplicate his numbers from last year. Those numbers are reliable for a 7th inning guy, so if we get that kind of production and can sign him to a 3 million contract, I'm all for it.[/quote']Don't be fooled by his earlier numbers. The guy is a train wreck. When you stink so bad that the Nats give up on you, you are bad. He didn't even play in 2009. No one wanted to deal with him. Those stats from 5 years ago are not coming back, and to a great extent they were very misleading.

 

Edit; My memory is a little fuzzy. I see he did pitch for 2 teams in 2009, but I had rembered him being DFA'd by the Twins.

[a700hitter]

Trade for Joakim Soria?

Velocity way down in 2011.

[Bellhorn04]

More from Ben:

 

Wow, that really is amazingly vague and lame. And it sounds like we're going to get a nice box of pens and paper back for Epstein.

[a700hitter]

A blockbuster move by the Sox.

Red Sox Sign Jesse Carlson

By Tim Dierkes [December 8 at 2:03pm CST]

 

The Red Sox signed lefty reliever Jesse Carlson to a split contract with a spring training invite, his brother told Robert Mayer of the local online newspaper the Berlin Patch in a story published yesterday. Carlson, 30, had rotator cuff surgery in May and was removed from Toronto's 40-man roster in November. Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com first tweeted the near-agreement yesterday morning.

It looks like I had correctly interpreted BC's "under the radar" remark as dumpster diving.

[Cask N Flagon 76]

A blockbuster move by the Sox. :lol:It looks like I had correctly interpreted BC's "under the radar" remark as dumpster diving.

 

 

Wow this season is looking more and more promising lol. My only fear is did we give

a bucket of balls for this guy or what?.

[a700hitter]

Wow this season is looking more and more promising lol. My only fear is did we give

a bucket of balls for this guy or what?.

That would be a severe overpay.

[seabeachfred]

Several weeks ago' date=' I posted elsewhere that Ben reminded of the story of the jackass who died of starvation because he was midway between two bales of hay and couldn't make up his mind which to eat from. At what point does delibration become indecision?[/quote']

 

It has to be clear by now that Cheringbarf is a half-dozen smokes short of a pack---and a miserable procrastinator to boot. He can't make up his mind on anything because he is a bozo Elk and 700 and Jung and any of the rest of you willing to listen. He is in over his head. To have offered Ortiz arbitration without knowing that he had no market was in essence the period to his guy's ineptness. Believe me, if Henry ever sells this team Benny boy will be the first one shown the door. He is downright pathetic.

[DeadHorseSociety]

Lets cut Ben some slack, Theo left him a pile of hot garbage and chump change to work with. The guy went into free agency with $8-9mil to sign 2 starters, a closer and a RF yet people bitch about the moves he's not making when instead they should be bitching about Theo abandoning a ship he stirred into rough waters.

[seabeachfred]

There has been a lot of negative talk towards BC over the winter meetings. I know a lot of fans aren't happy because the best we could come up with is resigning Papi and Miller. Also, I'm sure a lot of people already know that BC is going to wait a little bit before he makes moves in the free agent market to see if he can get "bargains." That leaves me with a question for everyone. We are virtually the same team as last year, which at one point was the best team in baseball. We don't have Papelbon, Lackey, Wakefield, Bedard, and Varitek for next year. The only real loss there is Papelbon. My question to everyone is who were you guys expecting us to sign at the winter meetings?

 

Both Bard and Aceves are going to prepare in Spring Training as starting pitchers. That right there completes our rotation. We have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Aceves, and Bard in the rotation. Andrew Miller will also be competing for a spot. If that is the so called rotation to expect for opening day, then we have Miller as an option to fill-in if we are plagued with injuries. Also, we signed one other guy to a minor league contract and an invite to Spring Training. I don't remember his name, but he pitched for the Blue Jays and say out last year if I remember right. That is 7 pitchers figthing for starting spots on this team.

 

That leaves our only real spots to fill in the bullpen. We are still in talks with Ryan Madson. He is not off of the table. Also, for those who want a starting pitcher, Roy Oswalt is still available as an option for this team. I know that JH does not want to go over the luxury tax, but if it comes to it, we might. We have to get a closer, a set-up man, a 7th inning man, and maybe one or two more arms in the pen. We are in talks with the A's, Rangers, and White Sox about pitching in general. If we can pull the trigger with trading for Bailey or signing Madson, then the closer role is filled. We are still interested in Luis Ayala. He could be our 7th inning guy if we sign him. There are still trade options out there and there are still pitchers left in the market.

 

If we get a closer and sign Ayala, that means we have to come up with a set-up man or another starting pitcher. If we get the set-up man, then Bard and Aceves stay in the rotation. If we get another starter, then we could put Aceves or Bard in the set-up role, probably Bard again. The scenario could work out for us. There are still options out there, so there is no need for fans to panic, because I can guarantee you that this team has some sort of plan.

 

Like I said before, we still are basically the same team as last year, minus our great closer. We actually improve by losing Wakefield and Lackey for the year, except in terms of depth in the rotation. I know that no one wants Dice-K to return to this team, but he is expected to be ready to play some time this summer. That just adds more to our pitching depth. He might be able to fill-in like Wakefield did if we are plagued by injuries. Our offense is going to be good. I know that everyone wants a RH right fielder, but that is not an essential need, because we still have Reddick with Kalish hopefully going to return.

 

We also lose Varitek, but we have Lavarnway as a backup, maybe even splitting time with Salty at catcher. We kind of improve at catcher, at least offensively. We will more than likely add a RH hitter in the outfield. I don't know who at this point, most likely someone cheap who can be a utility outfielder for us, getting most of the action in RF. That is the least of our worries. The offense will still be as good as last year.

 

We need to focus on nothing but pitching going forward. We have flexibility in what we can do as well with both Bard and Aceves willing to move to the rotation. We may go over the luxury tax, we might not, if not we will still be a contender. Lowrie, Kalish, and Reddick are all trade bait for potential pitchers. Why keep Lowrie or Reddick? We have Aviles who is already a utility infielder. We have Kalish who is going to be a LH right fielder like Reddick. There is no point in keeping both.

 

For me, I would love for us to sign Madson, Ayala, and Oswalt and keep Bard in the set-up role and move Aceves to the rotation. That might not be realistic, because that means we are going to be breaking the luxury tax, but it is very possible. I'm hoping that we can work out a deal with Papi for the next two years, instead of paying him $14 or $15 million this next year. We can probably reduce it down to $20 or $22 million for him over two years and free up $3 or $4 million per year over the next two years. That three million right there could go into signing Ayala, which would be a good move in my opinion.

 

I think a lot of people forget that this team is really the same as last season. Papelbon earned $12 million last year. If they want to replace his salary with another closer, why not invest in Ryan Madson? He won't cost as much and would be reliable. Oswalt made $16 million in 2011. Oswalt is looking for a three year deal at probably $13 to $14 million per year. So, I don't know which route we will take. Madson is probably looking at a 4 year deal around $10 million per year. That would be $23 million for both, with another $10 to $15 with Papi. Miller cost us $1 million. So far we are probably looking at $16 million at the most that we have spent. That doesn't give us much room to work with in regards to the luxury tax. We will probably see a strong push in trading for a closer.

 

At this point, there are a lot of questions to be answered. If we are willing to break the luxury tax, why not try to sign Oswalt, Madson, and Ayala. If we aren't willing to break the luxury tax, then sign Ayala, try to trade for Bailey, and try to trade for a starting pitcher or someone to fill the set-up role. We could also think about possibly taking a chance on Joel Zumaya as a set-up man. We supposedly are going to be at his workout that he is having soon. Imagin these two scenarios:

 

Scenario 1 (breaking the luxury tax):

Rotation-

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Oswalt

Aceves

 

7th- Ayala

Set-up- Bard

Closer- Madson

 

Scenario 2 (staying under the luxury tax, a risky decision):

Rotation-

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Aceves

Bard

 

7th- Ayala

Set-up- Zumaya

Closer- Bailey

 

Obviously the first option is the better one, but the second one could work out. If Zumaya become reliable and we trade for Bailey, then a that could be a bonus for us. That is a big IF on Zumaya though. Don't forget we will be getting Jenks and Dice-K back at some point. IF we get some productivity out of Jenks, then both Jenks and Zumaya could be reliable late innning guys for us. I like Ayala in the 7th-inning role no matter what. I think he is worth $3 million a year. I want Aceves in the rotation no matter what, he deserves the shot. Miller will probably have to be in the pen and possibly be a spot starter on some occasions.

 

Whatever route we choose to go, I feel we will be a competitor in 2012. Also, don't read too much into my scenarios. I am just throwing things out there. I would probably have someone else in that set-up role in scenario 2, but it might be worth a shot. There is a lot we could do this offseason and there is still a lot of time left. We aren't going to be sitting around doing nothing the entire offseason. Everyday the FO is working on possible moves. We will put together a solid team that will compete. Just hang in there and don't be too quick to judge the FO, especially BC.

 

Nice try Red Sox fan but the operative theme of your post was Talk, talking, and talked. Well talk is cheap. We haven't done a damn thing there and the only two moves Benny Barf made were moves he shouldn't have. We are worse off now than we were at the end of the season and now that many of us are aware of this guy's ineptness don't be surprised if we see him sign Wakefield and Varitek anyway, which would make us a lot worse than last year. Nice try though.

[seabeachfred]

A blockbuster move by the Sox. :lol:It looks like I had correctly interpreted BC's "under the radar" remark as dumpster diving.

 

Dumpster diving 700? I think outhouse crawling would be more appropriate.

[DeadHorseSociety]

Luchhino on WEEI:

"We have the only manager in baseball who speaks conversational Japanese, but I'm not going to speculate on the process."

 

Time will tell.

[seabeachfred]

Lets cut Ben some slack' date=' Theo left him a pile of hot garbage and chump change to work with. The guy went into free agency with $8-9mil to sign 2 starters, a closer and a RF yet people bitch about the moves he's not making when instead they should be bitching about Theo abandoning a ship he stirred into rough waters.[/quote']

 

Dead Horse, Cherington's position was not very enticing, I'll give you that, but he would have had more money available had he not stupidly offered Ortiz arbitration. He believed that Papi would turn it down when so many of us out here in the hinterlands knew he would not. Why didn't Benny Boob know that? That made it even harder for him but he brought that on himself. And why sign Miller for another couple of million? That could have been set aside. All in all Cherington made a bad situation he inherited even worse.

[DeadHorseSociety]

Dead Horse' date=' Cherington's position was not very enticing, I'll give you that, but he would have had more money available had he not stupidly offered Ortiz arbitration. He believed that Papi would turn it down when so many of us out here in the hinterlands knew he would not. Why didn't Benny Boob know that? That made it even harder for him but he brought that on himself. And why sign Miller for another couple of million? That could have been set aside. All in all Cherington made a bad situation he inherited even worse.[/quote']

 

 

You have a point seabeachfred, seems like he believed the hype that Toronto and Baltimore were really in on Papi. Either way file that one under rookie mistake.

[FredLynn]

Dead Horse' date=' Cherington's position was not very enticing, I'll give you that, but he would have had more money available had he not stupidly offered Ortiz arbitration. He believed that Papi would turn it down when so many of us out here in the hinterlands knew he would not. Why didn't Benny Boob know that? That made it even harder for him but he brought that on himself. And why sign Miller for another couple of million? That could have been set aside. All in all Cherington made a bad situation he inherited even worse.[/quote']

 

I think Cherington knows what all of us know: this team is dead in the water this year. This is the year we mark time while some $$ comes off the books. I agree that signing Ortiz was a mistake. He should have spent the money on a short term contract for a RHH OF or a SP. Even had he done that we are still dead in the water this year. The Yanks-Rays and the Rangers-Angels will compete for the division and WC. The Sox will be watching baseball on TV in October-again.

[a700hitter]

You have a point seabeachfred' date=' seems like he believed the hype that Toronto and Baltimore were really in on Papi. Either way file that one under rookie mistake.[/quote']Baltimore and Toronto may have made multi year offers but not in the range of $14 million/year. They probably offered 2/$16 or less. Ben should have better gauged his value to other teams. The O's got good production from Vlad last year for very little money, so why would they splurge on Papi. Didn't he think Papi could do basic math and figure out that 1 year at $15 million was much better than 2/$16 or 2/19.

[a700hitter]

I think Cherington knows what all of us know: this team is dead in the water this year. This is the year we mark time while some $$ comes off the books. I agree that signing Ortiz was a mistake. He should have spent the money on a short term contract for a RHH OF or a SP. Even had he done that we are still dead in the water this year. The Yanks-Rays and the Rangers-Angels will compete for the division and WC. The Sox will be watching baseball on TV in October-again.

I think the team is salvageable this season. They might need to break through the LT cap, but not by a lot. I like Bard and Aceves in the rotation. They should be an upgrade over last season and the top 3 are strong. We just need a RH OFer to split time with Kalish or Reddick. The hardest thing will be to build a bullpen from scratch. With Aceves and Bard in the rotation and Paps gone, all we have is a fat Jenks with a bad back. It will take a lot of skill to build a good bullpen from scratch, but it can be done. Tampa did it last year. If Ben can do it this year, he will have done something that Theo never did.

[a700hitter]

If Darvish is the real deal, Valentine would know. I think his comments were very coy, and I'm not sure how to interpret them. He was very frank in his assessment of Dice K when he posted. He said that he was a back end of the rotation guy who wasn't the flame thrower that he was billed as. Maybe Valentine was more frank then, because he was not affiliated with any team, and now he is reluctant to be critical, or maybe he likes the guy and he wants the Sox to bid on him. If we bid on this guy, I have to think he will be much better than Dice k.

[jung]

I don't think the Sox will be in the running for Darvish whether V likes him or not. I suspect it will be more about whether LL likes the PR value-of Darvish even more than he liked the PR value of dice. With dice we got the juice about his interpreter and the posting fee...blah blah blah. Now the Sox have V, and the PR they can generate from having a manager that actually speaks the language and understands how a Japanese pitcher wants to work. How much PR can they spin out of that? Can't you see it? V heads out to the mound and both V and Darvish bow to each other before and after the mound discussion. Pure PR gold!

[Elktonnick]

I think the team is salvageable this season. They might need to break through the LT cap' date=' but not by a lot. I like Bard and Aceves in the rotation. They should be an upgrade over last season and the top 3 are strong. We just need a RH OFer to split time with Kalish or Reddick. The hardest thing will be to build a bullpen from scratch. With Aceves and Bard in the rotation and Paps gone, all we have is a fat Jenks with a bad back. It will take a lot of skill to build a good bullpen from scratch, but it can be done. Tampa did it last year. If Ben can do it this year, he will have done something that Theo never did.[/quote']

 

I agree that the team may be salvagable this year if they shore up the pitching. By signing Papi however, the Red Sox lost a great of money that could have been used to get the pitching they need. The result is they are going to be forced to deal one of their position players probably Youklis. But they have got to be more aggressive then they have been to date. Ben is a DILLY DALLY. The best light I can put on it is he has an over abundance of caution which would be only okay if the sox are willing to break their budget and over pay when they finally decide to do something which they aren't willing to do this year. Ben will be out manuevered by other more nimble GMs.

 

At the rate they are going I despair that they will get anyone but the dregs. Miller and Carlson only improve Pawtucket's chances in the International league if that.

[jung]

Like I said a few months ago...if they can be a scratchy tough team that comes out and plays in every game, given everything that has happened I can be OK with that. Beckett is not helping matters complaining about V's comments regarding Beckett's time between pitches even though V made those comments as an analyst. When will Beckett just learn to shut up and pitch. Seems to me that Beckett is beginning to make it impossible for him to stay. Maybe that is what he wants....out!