2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[VA Sox Fan]

If the FO gives more than a flying f$&@ about a message board' date=' then they are in the wrong field. I hope they don't give two shits about whatever we say on here.[/quote']

 

I don't think they do. Or I hope to God they don't.

[VA Sox Fan]

Don't worry. They are only interested in what the King of TalkSox has to say.

 

tool bag

[User Name]

tool bag

 

I think he meant the actual owner of the forum, because he's just another regular poster.

[jung]

Our organization ultimately fired someone a couple years because of information gleaned through an internet forum. The Sandusky case got traction causing the PA AG to reopen the investigation because of certain inforamtion revealed in an online forum.

 

Most high performance organiztions who follow a TQM or CQI mamangement philosphy do trend analysis as part of what's called an environmental scan. Now i don't know for fact that RS follow that model exactly but it would be generally consistent with their data driven management philosophy. Such organiztions regularly survey and monitor all media for customer reaction. Monitoring internet forums have became part of that process.

 

Using information gleaned from a web site to build a case for revealing an underperforming employee or using information gleaned from a web site in building a legal argument is not the same thing as making fan opinion gleaned from anywhere part of your personnel hiring process. They just aren't.

[VA Sox Fan]

I think he meant the actual owner of the forum' date=' because he's just another regular poster.[/quote']

 

[Meh]

Bell is getting 3-4 yrs guaranteed. The guy have been one of the best relievers in baseball over the last 3 seasons.

 

Sox would be wise to stay away from Bell and Thornton if he's going to be there closer. I think Street might be their best move. Bard needs more time. Maybe even roll the dice and sign Frank Fransisco and get Street too.

 

Street closing

Fransisco and Bard setting up

Jenks as the rotating guy between the 7th and 8th when people need rest

Morales as the lefty

Wislon as the long man

Weiland as a two inning RP

[Elktonnick]

Using information gleaned from a web site to build a case for revealing an underperforming employee or using information gleaned from a web site in building a legal argument is not the same thing as making fan opinion gleaned from anywhere part of your personnel hiring process. They just aren't.

 

Actually you missed the point i was making. The organization I was referring to was monitoring forums for trends. The trends indicated widespread customer dissatisifaction. The organization looked into why. It started a process. This is done on a regular basis.

 

In the red sox case,fFor example we know that Henry listens to sports radio. He went on the sports hub. It is exactly the same thing. The RS FO realized wide spread fan base dissatisfaction. There has been ample discussion on the internet, on sport radio and in the published press. They learned from multiple sources the trend that a Sveum type wouldn't satisfy the fans etc. Was it it the determinent factor? I don't know for sure but I think it was a factor in their decisionmaking process. It was just one more data point that a data driven organization would use. That is why I believe Valentine was a marketing decision as well as a baseball one. They decided for business reasons they needed to go into a different direction. Business and baseball interests converged. Tha's the point.

[jacksonianmarch]

Because they're rebuilding is why it seems like common sense to try to move a 5.5 million reliever contract.

 

And why can't he set up? Apart from a rocky start to the season, the guy was lights out. The high BABIP and low LOB% scream fluke. He could be a set-up man in Boston, me thinks.

 

I dont think you sign him as your setup man or closer. He might end up in the role, but you cannot come into the season with that in mind. He is a reliever on the wrong side of 35 who just posted his worst season in the last 4. He's a guy you get, hand the LH relief gig to and give 7th inning or scrap inning work to and see if he works his way up the pecking order. If you get him (he'll cost a good prospect or two btw) to be an integral part of the back end of your pen and he shows that he's in regression mode then you're f***ed

[jung]

I definitely like the bring him in and see where he goes approach. Would not want to give up to much for a guy from a team in move the contract mode. To me the biggest sin in moving prospects is moving guys that have made it in your system all the way up to AAA and have shown success there....guys that are maybe one year or just over a year away from actually moving up to the show. Even though they are still prospects I really hate the idea of giving up those guys. If we don't have to go nuts with stuff like that it could be OK.

[User Name]

Peripherals are okay, and aside for a very high BABIP there's nothing to indicate he's in regression mode, including his FB velocity, which was almost 96 MPH last year. Age is a factor, but there's really not a lot regarding LHP options in the market.

[jopete19]

Ok what is BC doing? Or should I say what isn't he doing! Heath Bell just signed with the Marlins! So Bard is probably going to be our closer! I swear this manager search should not have taken this long!

[jung]

Well there are so many people talking for the Red Sox, all of them saying different things to different people. One of the things that has been said has been that Bard would get his shot at closing this year. Maybe that is the one thing that is being said about closers by some Sox FO guys that is accurate. Maybe it is Bard after all.

 

Then again one strategy that has been floated has been that the Sox would let the first few closers go by and then get one that was left closer to the bottom figuring that after Paps and then to some extent Bell the remainder are kinda' interchangeable. However that is the one strategy that I thought would lead them back to Bard because that sounds like they would just pay more money for somebody that would not do the job any better than Bard would.

[SoxSport]

Sox would be wise to stay away from Bell and Thornton if he's going to be there closer. I think Street might be their best move. Bard needs more time. Maybe even roll the dice and sign Frank Fransisco and get Street too.

 

 

Well, they must have something up their sleeve.

Bailey and Street will cost prospects. Cordero is still available.

Rauch and Capps are marginal. Thornton isn't a full time closer.

 

Bell got 3/27 from the big market Marlins, so the price is coming down.

And then there's Madson--Boras. Price goes up again.

 

They have to decide Bard's role--that's part of this.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

It is my guess that they are going to try Bard out as the closer and if he craps the bed, then they try to trade for one during the season. Just my opinion.

[iortiz]

Cherington, David Ortiz's agent talking

December, 1, 2011

DEC 1

8:53

PM ET

 

By Joe McDonald

BOSTON -- While Red Sox free-agent slugger David Ortiz is in the Dominican Republic preparing for his annual charity golf tournament, Boston general manager Ben Cherington and Ortiz's agent continue to talk about the designated hitter's future with the organization.

 

Cherington and Fern Cuza, Ortiz's agent, are planning to meet next week during baseball's winter meetings in Dallas.

 

The Red Sox offered Ortiz arbitration on Nov. 23 and he has until Dec. 7 to either accept or decline it.

 

"We offered him arbitration and that's significant because he has a decision to make on that on Wednesday if we don't reach an agreement before then," Cherington said. "We had continued good dialogue."

 

Under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement, clubs retain the right to negotiate and/or enter into a contract agreement with any of their free agents, regardless of whether arbitration was offered. There are no deadlines for such negotiations or agreements.

 

If Ortiz, a Type A free agent, were to sign a deal elsewhere, the Red Sox would receive two draft picks as compensation. That scenario could give other teams pause about signing the designated hitter and having to yield a first-round pick.

[jung]

While I still have not found a complete new CBA I have found something pretty close. This offseason at least the compensation rules will be a combination of the old and the new...that should be enough of a mess. However the new tax rates will go into effect. I was wrong about the top (4th year rate). The first thing I read had the 4th year rate at 40%. Actually the new 4th year rate is 50%. That might actually be enough to even make the Yanks blink. The new 1st year rate is now 17.5% and there is no change to the 2nd and 3rd year rates.

 

The whole inter-league thing seems to need some work as there are no guarantees that a team that is competing for a playoff spot won't end up with inter-league games in September. Imagine the Sox being in a race for the playoff suddenly having to cart themselves off to Philladephia in September to play the Phils without a DH and have those games count! One possible solution would be to have the DH in place for all inter-league games regardless of where they are played but that won't fly. Another would be to say there is no longer a diff between the two leagues and just finally fight the whole damn thing out and have the DH everywhere or nowhere.

 

Another place that looks ticklish with no idea how it will work is the compensation as it relates to guys traded at the mid-season deadline. If the team that gets such a player does not sign that player for the next season they will no longer get any compensation for losing him. Can't figure out if that means teams will really shy away from making deals for players at that mid-season trade deadline or not.

 

Finally the competitive draft lottery seems something of a joke. Half of the teams that made the playoffs last year would be able to pick up draft picks in that lottery. Unfortunately what that says is that being smart about how you spend your money for the most part bests throwing tons of money out there and trying to buy a World Series. It is a complicated mess. One commenter mentioned that it would make more sense to just take the 6 smallest market teams and just give them each one extra draft pick. While that does not seem fair either it is at least as fair as the mess they will be working with while being 90% less complicated.

[a700hitter]

Padres Hire Omar Minaya

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 2, 2011 at 10:10am CST]

 

The Padres have hired former Mets and Expos GM Omar Minaya, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (Twitter link). He will likely advise GM Josh Byrnes on Latin American operations.

The Padres have just set back their franchise by a decade. Minaya is a horror show. Ask any Met fan.

[User Name]

From MLBTR:

 

The Red Sox are exploring every trade possibility and considering every free agent closer, according to Rosenthal. Boston is hoping to find a bargain somewhere in the crowded market for top-tier relievers.

[jung]

That is what I have believed...the Sox are looking for a bargain at closer and probably a few other bargains as well for the BP. Maybe at the end of the day Bard is their fall back position if they are unable to pull off getting a closer on their terms.

[Meh]

Jim Bowden's reporting that the Sox and Boras are talking about Madson right now. I think that'll get done within two weeks.

[User Name]

For less years and money than Papelbon. Color me surprised if Madson gets 3/33.

[SoxSport]

Jim Bowden's reporting that the Sox and Boras are talking about Madson right now. I think that'll get done within two weeks.

 

Madson is one of those guys who can either close or start. He could be switchable with Bard in case Bard doesn't cut it as a starter.

[User Name]

Madson hasn't started a game since 2006. And he was never an effective starter. He's being marketed as a late-inning reliever because that's what he is.

[jung]

Well unless they can get Madson for way less than I would think possible, letting Paps go to end up dealing with Boras over Madson makes no sense whatsoever. The Sox will likely be forced to negotiate down on Madson to a point that will not be acceptable to Boras or else they risk looking ridiculous for allowing Paps to leave.

 

They can talk but I doubt they will get a deal done.

[Meh]

Madson is one of those guys who can either close or start. He could be switchable with Bard in case Bard doesn't cut it as a starter.

 

You'd want to sign Madson to start?

 

UserName, I agree with your 3/33 deal but I think they'll be a 13 million vesting option.

[a700hitter]

You'd want to sign Madson to start?

 

UserName, I agree with your 3/33 deal but I think they'll be a 13 million vesting option.

Giving a huge payday to Madson after letting Papelbon walk would be colossally stupid.

[a700hitter]

That is what I have believed...the Sox are looking for a bargain at closer and probably a few other bargains as well for the BP. Maybe at the end of the day Bard is their fall back position if they are unable to pull off getting a closer on their terms.

Maybe KMart will run a Blue Light special on closers. They missed the black friday deals on closers. I heard that the Dollar Store gets some irregular closers. They are just as good as regular closers, but with tiny imperfections. Sometimes they only have 9 fingers or 1 eye. It's no big difference. It looks like the Sox FO is going to have a tough time rebuilding the bullpen. If they are scouring the league looking for bargains, it seems to me that they didn't have a very well thought out plan. A good plan would target certain guys and you pursue them. This seems like they are waiting until everyone leaves the dance hoping that there is still a pretty girl left-- with low self esteem. It doesn't happen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Giving a huge payday to Madson after letting Papelbon walk would be colossally stupid.

 

I said this when Paps signed. If they give a big money deal to Madson then they're idiots

[User Name]

There's a huge different between 3/33 and 4/50 with an easily reached 14 mill vesting option. If the contract is much more than my initial estimate they s*** the bed.

[jacksonianmarch]

The difference would be 1 yr and $17 mil guaranteed. If Papelbon gets the option to vest, then the Phillies will be happy campers. The fact is, that Papelbon is as proven a commodity as it gets in this market, he's a WS champ, and he's been closing for longer in a tougher division. It's penny wise and pound foolish