2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Flynnatic10]

New need to the offseason list: a closer.

[a700hitter]

Who was the genius here that was preaching patience by the posters? I thought teams don't make big moves until Thanksgiving or so it was posted. We should be happy that Ben is carefully considering his strategy. I guess Philadelphia didn't get the memo, or they just don't agree with the after Thanksgiving timeline.

[jung]

I have thought they would sign a player or players before a manager mainly for that reason. You really do have to be working on your roster. The manager decision is where they can afford this "process" they are going through but players are a different story.

[win red sox]

What is with the obsession for Quentin? I would recommend everyone look at his stats... he is an absolutely terrible defensive OF' date=' and really isn't that great a hitter. Reddick's outstanding defense makes him just as valuable-- if he had played the same number of games as Quentin, their WAR would be about the same in 2011. Plus, Quentin will cost 7 million in 2012, and be on his way to free agency the year after.[/quote']

 

The key to the suggested trade would be John Danks and Cris Sale, Danks is a front of the rotation starter and Sale wants to be a starter and has the stuff to be a no 1. Quentin has 1 year of arb left, so the first year would be a trial run. Let's face it, Ellsbury's relationship with FO is not the best and plus the FO is not going to pay 2 outfielders 20 million a year. Why not trade him now with his value so high? The offense will be fine without Ellsbury, you can plug Kalish into center and put Scutaro in the leadoff. The problem with the sox was the backend of the rotation and bullpen, not the offense.

[jung]

Danks....so you are going to have two left handed starters to encourage opponents to load up on right handed hitters to take aim at the Fenway wall?

[Laser Show]

We better get our heads out of our asses before Philly swoops in and signs Papelbon from us.

 

Ding ding ding, winner.

[win red sox]

Danks....so you are going to have two left handed starters to encourage opponents to load up on right handed hitters to take aim at the Fenway wall?

 

If they were average pitchers with average stuff I would see your point, but both have plus stuff. And if your uncomfortable with both of them in the rotation they could always put Sale in a setup role. When was the last time the sox had a reliable lefty out of the bullpen? I guess Wagner.

[jung]

I like having a lefty reliever but the Sox already have Lester starting from the left side. Danks would put two left handers in the rotation.

[seabeachfred]

+1

 

Of course iortiz, if you could tell me why in hell the Red Sox are contacting Grady Sizemore's agent I would be most appreciative. I cannot understand such a move. The only things he has in common with the Red Sox is that he gets injured a lot and is left handed, the latter of which is exactly why this guy is not for us. It might be somewhat acceptable if he could hit left handed pitching but he is terrible in that regard. If we sign him and Ortiz the rest of the teams will empty their farm system and throw every lefty they have at us. An overwhelming park that favors RH hitters and we overload on lefties. I just hope this talk with Grady'a agent goes nowhere. We need a RH hitter, not another lefty.

[seabeachfred]

Ding ding ding' date=' winner.[/quote']

 

Well Laser we say things like that and we get accused to going too close to the ledge and in total panic. If we want to keep Papelbon, Cherington should get off his dime and stop worrying about signing Sizemore and start to earn his pay. If this goes on much longer we may all be starting to wonder about that guy. A closer like Papelbon is a helluva lot more important to the Red Sox than a worn out and lefty challenged hitter like Sizemore.

[Laser Show]

Well Laser we say things like that and we get accused to going too close to the ledge and in total panic. If we want to keep Papelbon' date=' Cherington should get off his dime and stop worrying about signing Sizemore and start to earn his pay. If this goes on much longer we may all be starting to wonder about that guy. A closer like Papelbon is a helluva lot more important to the Red Sox than a worn out and lefty challenged hitter like Sizemore.[/quote']

 

Agreed. Our offense was #1 last year. He needed to be talking to pitchers, not Grady Sizemore.

[redsoxfan3]

It sucks about Papelbon. But, what can ya' do? We are supposedly going after Bell and Madson now. Also, we are going after Cuddyer and Sizemore, although I would prefer not go after Sizemore. This should be interesting, I am kind of shocked right now.

[a700hitter]

It sucks about Papelbon. But' date=' what can ya' do? We are supposedly going after Bell and Madson now. Also, we are going after Cuddyer and Sizemore, although I would prefer not go after Sizemore. This should be interesting, I am kind of shocked right now.[/quote']Bell is 34 years old. Good thinking by Ben the Boob to replace your 30 year old consistently elite closer with a 34 year old closer who never smelled success until he was 30. Let's give him a 3 year contract.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

It sucks about Papelbon. But' date=' what can ya' do? We are supposedly going after Bell and Madson now. Also, we are going after Cuddyer and Sizemore, although I would prefer not go after Sizemore. This should be interesting, I am kind of shocked right now.[/quote']

 

Hell. No.

 

I rather go with Kalish/Reddick.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox pen on the whole was actually a strength last yr until September. But you've now lost your best piece of that pen. That strength turned into a weakness in one day

[iortiz]

The sox pen on the whole was actually a strength last yr until September. But you've now lost your best piece of that pen. That strength turned into a weakness in one day

 

The more I hear the more I'm convinced that we should grab Andrew Friedman....

 

The Phillies ate our lunch again. If NY eats our lunch with the SP or DH as well, I will be an official Cherington's hater.

[User Name]

The sox pen on the whole was actually a strength last yr until September. But you've now lost your best piece of that pen. That strength turned into a weakness in one day

 

You're the resident Yankee fan downer aren't you?

[win red sox]

Hell. No.

 

I rather go with Kalish/Reddick.

 

agreed.

[a700hitter]

The more I hear the more I'm convinced that we should grab Andrew Friedman....

 

The Phillies ate our lunch again. If NY eats our lunch with the SP or DH as well, I will be an official Cherington's hater.

This just made me shudder with fear. If the Yanks scoop up 1 or 2 starters and Beltran, we would be in for a very long season.

[iortiz]

This just made me shudder with fear. If the Yanks scoop up 1 or 2 starters and Beltran' date=' we would be in for a very long season.[/quote']

 

If that happens, be prepare like Rocky for bad names against us.

[jung]

One thing that bothers me about the Pap signing is that Cherington was asked about Paps and progress with Paps by a reporter yesterday I think and responded that he did not think there way anything happening just yet on Pap. Makes him sound kinda' oblivious to what was happening right under his nose.

[Meh]

The more I hear the more I'm convinced that we should grab Andrew Friedman.....

 

He's not even up for grabs... haha. He's a good GM, I'd love to have AA as the Yankees GM tho. Cashman acts like the lion of the jungle, like an article said, he sits back ready to strike on weak teams. That's a good way to play it but not all the time.

[jung]

The comments from Cherington today suggests a much different mood from his bosses than I thought we would see. I thought there would be little spending this offseason but I did not think we would see signs that ownership is so off-put by the performance if its FO and of the FA signings that they would really put their foot down on their collective necks but now I think that is what will happen or I guess I should say is happening.

 

Some have commented that the soccer franchise seems to be getting more attention but maybe it is performing better from top to bottom. That is the way it is in organizations with several business units. The business units that perform get the assets and the attention. Those that don't ....well don't.

 

I am not reacting to the lack of Sox activity on Paps because I thought it a 50/50 shot at best that they would resign him and at the money the Phils were offering 50/50 fell to 0/100. However it appears clear that the Sox will not be even as active as I thought they would be in the FA market and we may see many more young guys than even I was calling for.

 

Ownership appears to be somewhat pissed off. Now within this context it is no longer clear to me that JH was just trying to distance himself from the Crawford deal in the comments he made. I think there is the very real chance that he just did not give a s*** about Crawford's delicate state of mind. JH paid Crawford a pile of money and he came here and s*** the bed. Now those JH comments sound more like "get your f***ing s*** together *******."

[seabeachfred]

This just made me shudder with fear. If the Yanks scoop up 1 or 2 starters and Beltran' date=' we would be in for a very long season.[/quote']

 

I recently referred to Cherington as a procrastinator and did admit though it was kind of early to hurl that label around. It is possible that he has been given his marching orders from John Henry who seems to be more pissed off at what happened this season that I thought. If so, good for him. It was his money that went into the crapper in September 700, but it could bode ill for us if he closes his wallet completely. Papelbon is gone and a big part of the bullpen is gone with him and what none of us want to see is that we forego all closers and go with that ridiculous "closer by committee" farce we used back in 2003 with disastrous results. Right now I don't know what the front office and ownership are up to, but if Cherington is really thinking of signing Grady Sizemore it will be more than iortiz who will have him in their cross hairs. We need another RH hitter in the lineup PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that does not mean Sizemore. Either we let Papi walk also and put Lavarnway in his place and go with Kalish in RF or we get a RH hitter to play out there, maybe in a platoon situation with Ryan and to spell Crawford if he decides to s*** the bed again as he did last year. Yes, there are those who are saying not to rush things, but after today I would think that number has shrunk exponentially.

[Elktonnick]

"Some have commented that the soccer franchise seems to be getting more attention but maybe it is performing better from top to bottom. That is the way it is in organizations with several business units. The business units that perform get the assets and the attention. Those that don't ....well don't. "

 

I think you could be on to something. In 09 Liverpool was reportedly worth over a billion dllrs now it is valued at 550 million. Henry and Co paid only 450 million for it. Man U and the Dallas Cowboys are estimated to be the most valuable sports teams in the world. It would appear that there is more probability for valuation growth with Liverpool than the Red Sox.

[iortiz]

I recently referred to Cherington as a procrastinator and did admit though it was kind of early to hurl that label around. It is possible that he has been given his marching orders from John Henry who seems to be more pissed off at what happened this season that I thought. If so' date=' good for him. It was his money that went into the crapper in September 700, but it could bode ill for us if he closes his wallet completely. Papelbon is gone and a big part of the bullpen is gone with him and what none of us want to see is that we forego all closers and go with that ridiculous "closer by committee" farce we used back in 2003 with disastrous results. Right now I don't know what the front office and ownership are up to, but if Cherington is really thinking of signing Grady Sizemore it will be more than iortiz who will have him in their cross hairs. We need another RH hitter in the lineup PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that does not mean Sizemore. Either we let Papi walk also and put Lavarnway in his place and go with Kalish in RF or we get a RH hitter to play out there, maybe in a platoon situation with Ryan and to spell Crawford if he decides to s*** the bed again as he did last year. Yes, there are those who are saying not to rush things, but after today I would think that number has shrunk exponentially.[/quote']

 

Well said, Fred.

 

I'm not sure why we are we even thinking to land Sizemore

 

Wondering about that, made me throw up a bit.

[seabeachfred]

Well said, Fred.

 

I'm not sure why we are we even thinking to land Sizemore?

 

Wonder about that made me throw up a bit.

 

I'll tell you this iortiz, I sometimes think those of us who are inching for some kind of action are just spitting into a fierce headwind. OK, we let Papelbon walk but can you or anyone else tell me that we are not going to be in need of a closer, a RH hitting OF, a quality starter and now probably three relief pitchers who don't start fires but instead putting them out? I just don't know what is going through Cherington's mind or whether he has had a collar put on him, but even this early in the off season something needs to happen soon.

[Elktonnick]

I'll tell you this iortiz' date=' I sometimes think those of us who are inching for some kind of action are just spitting into a fierce headwind. OK, we let Papelbon walk but can you or anyone else tell me that we are not going to be in need of a closer, a RH hitting OF, a quality starter and now probably three relief pitchers who don't start fires but instead putting them out? I just don't know what is going through Cherington's mind or whether he has had a collar put on him, but even this early in the off season something needs to happen soon.[/quote']

 

Buckley et al just said on CSNE that Cherington never made an offer to Paps. They felt Paps wanted to go and the FO knew that hence no real effort. Makes me wonder if they won't do anything on Ortiz as well. Also what role if any does Liverpool play in what's going on or not going on.

[iortiz]

I'll tell you this iortiz' date=' I sometimes think those of us who are inching for some kind of action are just spitting into a fierce headwind. OK, we let Papelbon walk but can you or anyone else tell me that we are not going to be in need of a closer, a RH hitting OF, a quality starter and now probably three relief pitchers who don't start fires but instead putting them out? I just don't know what is going through Cherington's mind or whether he has had a collar put on him, but even this early in the off season something needs to happen soon.[/quote']

 

And pitching depth, Fred, pitching depth.

 

Not having pitching depth last season killed this team. We have to learn that injuries are always around the corner and mostly in SPs.

[jung]

Actually I am worried that Cherington is just waiting for the price on Ortiz to keep going down but I honestly do not want Ortiz at this point and if he continues to pursue Ortiz in any way shape or form then I think the chances go up considerably that they do in fact trade Ells this year. You just cannot go into the season this left handed.