9/20 vs Orioles

[MNSoxChief102]

I really don't know what to say anymore with regard to this team. This entire month has been abysmal to say the least, and yet somehow we're still in position to back our way into the playoffs, where history has proven that anything can happen. I remain optimistic, although it's definitely waning, and I refuse to believe this team doesn't want it or that they're rolling over and dying or any of the other ******** that's been tossed around as of late. They all want to win just as bad if not more than we do. But for a myriad of reasons it's just not happening.

 

The main thing that's holding this club back right now is starting pitching. If we could get just one solid outing, we have the offense to score enough runs to win, especially against the Orioles. Tonight's loss was a perfect example of that... Bedard goes out and lays a 2 and 2/3 crapper on everyone, forcing Tito to pitch Bard early and bring in Pap early as well. The result was sadly predictable.

 

All of that said, I still remain faithful to this team and those in charge of it, believing they have it within them to make a run, turning things around just as we did after the horrific start of our season. Only when the Sox are officially eliminated will I stop believing that this year can be special. Call me a homer or whatever you like... I don't care. I will always believe and have faith that the Sox can make it happen.

[iortiz]

This is really bad. He has to take the hit for this. Add to the lack of starting pitching that he built a flimsy bullpen. This September staff is the worst pitching staff that I can remember-- worse even than the days when they stacked their lineup with power hitters.

 

A journalist on ESPNDEPORTES just said that if The Boston Red Sox doesn't make the POs could represent one of the biggest failures ever in american sports according with all the expectations and payroll deployed. I'm not sure about this but seems so.

[a700hitter]

I'll be in front of the tube every game until the end, but realistically they have barely a glimmer of hope. Not only is the schedule going to be tough to overcome, but the biggest hurdle is that we have only 2 pitchers that are reliable and one of them has not been pitching well lately. I don't see this lineup being able to bludgeon its way to victory when the other 3 guys are pitching.

[a700hitter]

A journalist on ESPNDEPORTES just said that if The Boston Red Sox doesn't make the POs could represent one of the biggest failures ever in american sports according with all the expectations and payroll deployed. I'm not sure about this but seems so.

It's hard to think of a bigger failure.

[a700hitter]

Papelbon manned up and took full accountability. He didn't say the "s*** happens" Good for him.

[boston22407]

Papelbon manned up and took full accountability. He didn't say the "s*** happens" Good for him.

 

Nice to hear

[a700hitter]

Nice to hear

I have been hearing and reading so many whiny excuses that it's good to hear someone step up and point the finger at himself. This game was on Papebon. It would be nice to hear some other guys step up to be accountable for the rest of this month.

[iortiz]

Papelbon manned up and took full accountability. He didn't say the "s*** happens" Good for him.

 

When you fail, and really want to turn the things around, you have to accept your failure, make the adjustments and perform again. Tito needs a course about that. He loves excuse his players.

[wake21334]

Oh goody goody' date=' we get to see Wakefield pitch against the Yankees on Saturday. Yipee!!![/quote']

 

Truly amazing to me that he just keeps getting sent out there day in and day out. They have won 3 of his 9 starts over the past two months. His season era is a 6.14 vs the yankees, and his career era is just slightly under 5.00 at a 4.98. Its truly amazing to me that they resigned him for this year.

[a700hitter]

When you fail' date=' and really want to turn the things around, you have to accept your failure, make the adjustments and perform again. Tito needs a course about that. He loves excuse his players.[/quote']He compliments Bedard. Ridiculous. Bedard couldn't put away Andino and got winded in the process. That's what happened. If he was in better condition or if he had a better put away pitch, he breezes through that inning and Reddick doesn't get a chance to botch that ball.

[wake21334]

When you fail' date=' and really want to turn the things around, you have to accept your failure, make the adjustments and perform again. Tito needs a course about that. He loves excuse his players.[/quote']

 

He is just doing what any manager/coach does in major sports. They never throw players under the bus (especially to the media) and those that do hardly last. We live in a prima dona world and this is just how it is.

[wake21334]

He compliments Bedard. Ridiculous. Bedard couldn't put away Andino and got winded in the process. That's what happened. If he was in better condition or if he had a better put away pitch' date=' he breezes through that inning and Reddick doesn't get a chance to botch that ball.[/quote']

 

What did he say about Bedard? I missed it.

[MNSoxChief102]

A journalist on ESPNDEPORTES just said that if The Boston Red Sox doesn't make the POs could represent one of the biggest failures ever in american sports according with all the expectations and payroll deployed. I'm not sure about this but seems so.

 

That's the problem with expectations... they're always too high, especially the ones set by fans and the pundits at ESPN. On paper we were the team to beat in the AL at the start of the year. But the reality was different. We have had issues with depth, especially in our starting pitching and in the bullpen, all season long and the injuries have only compounded that going into this final stretch.

 

It's easy for us as fans and for the pundits to say that Theo failed big time by not addressing those areas, but the reality is that none of us really know what went on at the trade deadline or at the waiver deal deadline behind closed doors. All the signs pointed towards the Sox doing what they could to make a deal happen, going right down to the wire on Jiminez and trading for Harden after that fell through, only to pull the plug on it when medical concerns came up. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we envision them. It's not an excuse and it shouldn't absolve Theo and Co. from absorbing criticism, but it is what it is. You can't predict the future, you can only do your best to prepare for it. I think Theo tried to do that and unfortunately things have happened to exacerbate the problems rather than solve them.

 

The one thing I do know is that before Theo and Francona got here, we hadn't won a Series for 86 years... we now have two in the past decade with them at the helm. That has bought them more than enough goodwill to carry them through this debacle and into next year at the very least. Winning it all every year should be the goal but realistically that's not going to happen. This year is a perfect example of that. Only thing we can do is put out all our effort to win these next two weeks... after that, we'll hopefully be in the dance, but if not, it's back to the drawing board. I have no doubt that Theo and Co. will do everything they can to rectify this year's issues and put out a team to be proud of next year. That's all I can ask as a fan really...

[a700hitter]

 

The one thing I do know is that before Theo and Francona got here, we hadn't won a Series for 86 years... we now have two in the past decade with them at the helm. That has bought them more than enough goodwill to carry them through this debacle and into next year at the very least. Winning it all every year should be the goal but realistically that's not going to happen. This year is a perfect example of that. Only thing we can do is put out all our effort to win these next two weeks... after that, we'll hopefully be in the dance, but if not, it's back to the drawing board. I have no doubt that Theo and Co. will do everything they can to rectify this year's issues and put out a team to be proud of next year. That's all I can ask as a fan really...

Last year was also a debacle. We are staring at a second debacle in a row. This debacle comes after he committed over $300 million to 2 players.

[boston22407]

Last year was also a debacle. We are staring at a second debacle in a row. This debacle comes after he committed over $300 million to 2 players.

 

I hope theo leaves and goes to the cubs,that still won't fix anything with lack on the team.

[a700hitter]

What did he say about Bedard? I missed it.

He said that he was pitching well and that he knows how to pitch. I guess he can't throw the guy under the bus. He's in a tough position.

[a700hitter]

We still have hope. Pedroia and Ortiz hate to lose more than most players. Hopefully, they can get the guys jacked up tomorrow. Our best guy is pitching. If the Rays lose 1 of the games tomorrow, things will be looking up.

[MNSoxChief102]

Last year was also a debacle. We are staring at a second debacle in a row. This debacle comes after he committed over $300 million to 2 players.

 

It is what it is. A f***load of teams would have loved to have gotten Carl Crawford in the off-season. Did we overpay for him? As it stands now, absolutely. But no one could have predicted how bad of a year he has had. His career stats laid out a compelling argument to the contrary. Was it a bad decision to sign him? Perhaps. He still has a long way to go in a Sox uni and if he goes out next year and dominates like he's capable of, I doubt anyone will give a s*** about how bad he was this year.

 

A-Gon has been exactly what we thought he would be and more. He's earned every penny of the money we paid him.

 

Mistakes happen. No one is perfect. Not you, not me, not Theo. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be criticized for them and held accountable, but it doesn't mean he's an idiot like some around here seem to believe either. The alternative to Theo could be much worse...

[wake21334]

That's the problem with expectations... they're always too high, especially the ones set by fans and the pundits at ESPN. On paper we were the team to beat in the AL at the start of the year. But the reality was different. We have had issues with depth, especially in our starting pitching and in the bullpen, all season long and the injuries have only compounded that going into this final stretch.

 

It's easy for us as fans and for the pundits to say that Theo failed big time by not addressing those areas, but the reality is that none of us really know what went on at the trade deadline or at the waiver deal deadline behind closed doors. All the signs pointed towards the Sox doing what they could to make a deal happen, going right down to the wire on Jiminez and trading for Harden after that fell through, only to pull the plug on it when medical concerns came up. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we envision them. It's not an excuse and it shouldn't absolve Theo and Co. from absorbing criticism, but it is what it is. You can't predict the future, you can only do your best to prepare for it. I think Theo tried to do that and unfortunately things have happened to exacerbate the problems rather than solve them.

 

The one thing I do know is that before Theo and Francona got here, we hadn't won a Series for 86 years... we now have two in the past decade with them at the helm. That has bought them more than enough goodwill to carry them through this debacle and into next year at the very least. Winning it all every year should be the goal but realistically that's not going to happen. This year is a perfect example of that. Only thing we can do is put out all our effort to win these next two weeks... after that, we'll hopefully be in the dance, but if not, it's back to the drawing board. I have no doubt that Theo and Co. will do everything they can to rectify this year's issues and put out a team to be proud of next year. That's all I can ask as a fan really...

 

Problem is it starts with Depth. The yankees were hit by the injury bug just as much as we were this year. They lost their 8th inning guy way early in the season and their 7th inning guy early in the season. A somewhat unknown named David Robertson stepped right in and filled the void. The yankees have gotten nothing from AJ Burnett and Phil Hughes, but guess what? They got 16 wins from Ivan Nova, picked up two old cheap vets who have provided extremely serviceable numbers (Numbers that would easily make them the 3rd and 4th best pitchers on this staff). They currently have 6 bullpen arms that have a sub 3.75 era. Jeter missed a handful of games and Arod has missed nearly 40% of the season.

 

The difference between them and us is they have depth and prepared for the inevitable injuries. Maybe they had guys play way over the head but they went and got vets that have proven themselves in places before like Colon, Garcia, Chavez and Andruw Jones. We decided to make our bench up of guys like McDonald who has failed his entire Major League career, same with Miller and Wakefield (although despite having a 4.41 career era the guy has 200 wins, I guess that can happen when you pitch for 100 years)

[wake21334]

It is what it is. A f***load of teams would have loved to have gotten Carl Crawford in the off-season. Did we overpay for him? As it stands now, absolutely. But no one could have predicted how bad of a year he has had. His career stats laid out a compelling argument to the contrary. Was it a bad decision to sign him? Perhaps. He still has a long way to go in a Sox uni and if he goes out next year and dominates like he's capable of, I doubt anyone will give a s*** about how bad he was this year.

 

A-Gon has been exactly what we thought he would be and more. He's earned every penny of the money we paid him.

 

Mistakes happen. No one is perfect. Not you, not me, not Theo. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be criticized for them and held accountable, but it doesn't mean he's an idiot like some around here seem to believe either. The alternative to Theo could be much worse...

 

I just disagree on the Crawford signing. They were shelling out a major deal to a guy whose whole game is predicated on speed. To make that kind of a commitment to a guy at 30 years old (well he turned 30 this august) is asking for trouble. As any athlete gets older the first thing to go is speed. He isn't a superb defender to make up for any batting short comings.

 

It is easy to say this now but I was in the camp that wasn't happy with this signing when it happened because of the above mentioned.

[MNSoxChief102]

Problem is it starts with Depth. The yankees were hit by the injury bug just as much as we were this year. They lost their 8th inning guy way early in the season and their 7th inning guy early in the season. A somewhat unknown named David Robertson stepped right in and filled the void. The yankees have gotten nothing from AJ Burnett and Phil Hughes, but guess what? They got 16 wins from Ivan Nova, picked up two old cheap vets who have provided extremely serviceable numbers (Numbers that would easily make them the 3rd and 4th best pitchers on this staff). They currently have 6 bullpen arms that have a sub 3.75 era. Jeter missed a handful of games and Arod has missed nearly 40% of the season.

 

The difference between them and us is they have depth and prepared for the inevitable injuries. Maybe they had guys play way over the head but they went and got vets that have proven themselves in places before like Colon, Garcia, Chavez and Andruw Jones. We decided to make our bench up of guys like McDonald who has failed his entire Major League career, same with Miller and Wakefield (although despite having a 4.41 career era the guy has 200 wins, I guess that can happen when you pitch for 100 years)

 

The Yanks are a bad example IMO... they bet big and won this time. But if they tried to do it again next year, it could just as easily backfire on them, as it did in the past with the Sox when we tried to resurrect Colon, Smoltz, et al. Sometimes you just get lucky... the Yanks certainly have been with the way Colon and their over the hill vets have performed.

[a700hitter]

It is what it is. A f***load of teams would have loved to have gotten Carl Crawford in the off-season. Did we overpay for him? As it stands now, absolutely. But no one could have predicted how bad of a year he has had. His career stats laid out a compelling argument to the contrary. Was it a bad decision to sign him? Perhaps. He still has a long way to go in a Sox uni and if he goes out next year and dominates like he's capable of, I doubt anyone will give a s*** about how bad he was this year.

 

A-Gon has been exactly what we thought he would be and more. He's earned every penny of the money we paid him.

 

Mistakes happen. No one is perfect. Not you, not me, not Theo. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be criticized for them and held accountable, but it doesn't mean he's an idiot like some around here seem to believe either. The alternative to Theo could be much worse...

On the whole, Theo has had a successful tenure with the Sox, but I think it might be time for new blood, new ideas and a new approach. No one is indispensable. If Theo could come in at age 27 and do a good job, there are others who can do a good job.

[MNSoxChief102]

On the whole' date=' Theo has had a successful tenure with the Sox, but I think it might be time for new blood, new ideas and a new approach. No one is indispensable. If Theo could come in at age 27 and do a good job, there are others who can do a good job.[/quote']

 

Perhaps. But in taking that chance you could end up with someone much worse and set the franchise back a decade in the process. It's a roll of the dice I'm not willing to make right now. Maybe someday in the future, but not now.

[example1]

The difference between them and us is they have depth and prepared for the inevitable injuries. Maybe they had guys play way over the head but they went and got vets that have proven themselves in places before like Colon' date=' Garcia, Chavez and Andruw Jones. We decided to make our bench up of guys like McDonald who has failed his entire Major League career, same with Miller and Wakefield (although despite having a 4.41 career era the guy has 200 wins, I guess that can happen when you pitch for 100 years)[/quote']

 

The Yankees made some lucky moves. Their strategy is not one we would want our GM to pursue... in fact, he has pursued it in the past and was shat upon by the very people who would have loved for him to do it this year. The Sox had Bartolo Colon a few years ago.

 

Clearly the depth was a problem this year, but this team slumped and sucked across the board in a remarkable way that was unexpected and unpredictable. If Jon Lester pitches like Jon Lester then this team has two more wins and probably has a more comfortable lead at this point. Daniel Bard suddenly blows a few games? Who would have predicted that? Crawford has been AWFUL.

 

I'm not clearing the FO of all blame, but I lay this one squarely at the feet of the players as well.

[a700hitter]

The Yanks are a bad example IMO... they bet big and won this time. But if they tried to do it again next year' date=' it could just as easily backfire on them, as it did in the past with the Sox when we tried to resurrect Colon, Smoltz, et al. Sometimes you just get lucky... the Yanks certainly have been with the way Colon and their over the hill vets have performed.[/quote']I don't believe in luck. I think their FO deserves a lot of credit. They kicked our asses without making any big $ acquisition this year. This guy Nova is looking pretty good. We crow about Buchholz as a Cy Young contender when healthy, but Nova has been really good. They have a guy in their pen in Robertson who is having an unbelievable season. He is better than anyone we have right now. Tip your hat to them otherwise we are spoiled sports and whiners.

[iortiz]

That's the problem with expectations... they're always too high, especially the ones set by fans and the pundits at ESPN. On paper we were the team to beat in the AL at the start of the year. But the reality was different. We have had issues with depth, especially in our starting pitching and in the bullpen, all season long and the injuries have only compounded that going into this final stretch.

 

It's easy for us as fans and for the pundits to say that Theo failed big time by not addressing those areas, but the reality is that none of us really know what went on at the trade deadline or at the waiver deal deadline behind closed doors. All the signs pointed towards the Sox doing what they could to make a deal happen, going right down to the wire on Jiminez and trading for Harden after that fell through, only to pull the plug on it when medical concerns came up. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we envision them. It's not an excuse and it shouldn't absolve Theo and Co. from absorbing criticism, but it is what it is. You can't predict the future, you can only do your best to prepare for it. I think Theo tried to do that and unfortunately things have happened to exacerbate the problems rather than solve them.

 

The one thing I do know is that before Theo and Francona got here, we hadn't won a Series for 86 years... we now have two in the past decade with them at the helm. That has bought them more than enough goodwill to carry them through this debacle and into next year at the very least. Winning it all every year should be the goal but realistically that's not going to happen. This year is a perfect example of that. Only thing we can do is put out all our effort to win these next two weeks... after that, we'll hopefully be in the dance, but if not, it's back to the drawing board. I have no doubt that Theo and Co. will do everything they can to rectify this year's issues and put out a team to be proud of next year. That's all I can ask as a fan really...

 

When you have one of the biggest payrolls in the MLB, the only expectation is the WS, not less, and if you rush me, win it.

 

Sure, his intentions were arguably good. But in the end, these are only good intentions, but you know what they say, the hell is full of good intentions.

 

On the other hand, his business plan seems to be weak. You support good business plans with results, there's no other way to see it. It ain't over, we'll see.

[a700hitter]

Perhaps. But in taking that chance you could end up with someone much worse and set the franchise back a decade in the process. It's a roll of the dice I'm not willing to make right now. Maybe someday in the future' date=' but not now.[/quote']

They obviously need to do their due diligence and find a top candidate.

[a700hitter]

The Yankees made some lucky moves. Their strategy is not one we would want our GM to pursue... in fact, he has pursued it in the past and was shat upon by the very people who would have loved for him to do it this year. The Sox had Bartolo Colon a few years ago.

 

Clearly the depth was a problem this year, but this team slumped and sucked across the board in a remarkable way that was unexpected and unpredictable. If Jon Lester pitches like Jon Lester then this team has two more wins and probably has a more comfortable lead at this point. Daniel Bard suddenly blows a few games? Who would have predicted that? Crawford has been AWFUL.

 

I'm not clearing the FO of all blame, but I lay this one squarely at the feet of the players as well.

I agree with you, but I reject the luck excuse on any level.

[example1]

I don't believe in luck. I think their FO deserves a lot of credit. They kicked our asses without making any big $ acquisition this year.

 

You don't believe in luck? That seems like a pretty bold claim. What would you call winning the lottery? Good preparation?

 

The Sox wiped the floor with the Yankees head to head this year.

 

Clearly in retrospect the Yankees made good decisions (out of necessity, mind you) on their pitchers. I hope they stick with this pitching staff moving forward because it isn't that good.

[a700hitter]

You don't believe in luck? That seems like a pretty bold claim. What would you call winning the lottery? Good preparation?

 

The Sox wiped the floor with the Yankees head to head this year.

 

Clearly in retrospect the Yankees made good decisions (out of necessity, mind you) on their pitchers. I hope they stick with this pitching staff moving forward because it isn't that good.

I think luck is a convenient excuse for losers. I reject that.