2012 Financials

[Dojji]

Fair enough. It does raise the question-- how much of that money will be allotted for Papelbon/Ortiz? If they have 28 million to spend' date=' will 20-24 million on those two guys limit what they can do?[/quote']

 

Papelbon's already pulling down 12M, going up to $15M isn't that big a jump. Unless people are taking Papelbon's standing salary off the books with their initial calculation we're looking at a $3M increase there, not a $15M one. And that's assuming Paps gets 15M, which is a heck of a lot to pay a closer.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

But, given that we're one slot short in the rotation going into the season, can we afford a ~$3M bump when paying Ortiz for the next couple years fills more of a need and we might need to bring in a starter?

[Palodios]

Papelbon's already pulling down 12M' date=' going up to $15M isn't that big a jump. Unless people are taking Papelbon's standing salary off the books with their initial calculation we're looking at a $3M increase there, not a $15M one. And that's assuming Paps gets 15M, which is a heck of a lot to pay a closer.[/quote']

 

15 million for Papelbon... I could not imagine them paying him that. Atwork calculated that this team has 28 million to spend before hitting the luxury cap. I'd assume 3 million of that went to Wheeler and about 10 million went to Papi. If the 15 million went to Papelbon, that'd mean the 5th starter, extra bullpen help, SS and RHH OF all came from above the luxury cap.

[Dojji]

He's making 12M now. it wouldn't be that shocking.

 

Are you/AtWork taking the 12M of Pap's current salary OFF the books before thinking about adding the 15M back ON? Because he's only making $3M more than he made last year if he gets that kinda raise. He's not making $27M.

[Palodios]

I didn't say he wouldn't get that, I just meant the Red Sox probaly won't pay that. And AW took off all players who will be free agents in 2012. The huge bump in salary because of A-gon's contract definitely hits the team hard on the luxury tax.

 

It does seem to make more sense to let Papelbon go, and grab the draft picks. 3/45 is too much to pay for reliever, especially considering how inconsistent RP can be. With the sole exception of Mo, paying large amounts of money for relievers usually ends up being a bust. See K-Rod, Soriano, Joe Nathan, Jenks, Lidge.

[AtWork]

The fact that we're pressing the luxury tax makes it even more important to go after any offseason moves via trade. I don't think Theo will make any significant moves for position players this offseason' date=' but I would be surprised if he didn't trade for a high caliber SP. Maybe not elite, but high caliber. It's going to be interesting to see if the Cardinals exercise Wainwright's option after his injury as well. That could sway the FA market big time.[/quote']

 

Heyman reported 8/10 that the Red Sox don't plan on spending big money for a position player.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/08/10/jose.reyes/index.html#ixzz1Udxyb7KG

 

I agree, our offseason priority will likely be a starter. There are a lot of interesting starters with options that may or may not get picked up. Mark Buehrle would also be an interesting option.

[Dojji]

Meh. We're getting Daisuke back for one more go sometime in the latter half of 2012, and we've also got 5 other starters under contract if we keep Wake about. Going after a starter this year was a direct response to losing Buchholz, we aren't in a position to go after another SP next year. I suspect we'll be active in the relief market.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Meh. We're getting Daisuke back for one more go sometime in the latter half of 2012' date=' and we've also got 5 other starters under contract if we keep Wake about. Going after a starter this year was a direct response to losing Buchholz, we aren't in a position to go after another SP next year. I suspect we'll be active in the relief market.[/quote']

 

Pardon me for playing the pessimist right now, but I hardly would count on DiceK and Wakefield to combine for many starts next season. I would actually be shocked if Theo signed Wakefield for next season.

 

The Sox absolutely need a number 5 starter.

[AtWork]

Meh. We're getting Daisuke back for one more go sometime in the latter half of 2012' date=' and we've also got 5 other starters under contract if we keep Wake about. Going after a starter this year was a direct response to losing Buchholz, we aren't in a position to go after another SP next year. I suspect we'll be active in the relief market.[/quote']

 

How much do you honestly think we're going to get out of Daisuke a year removed from Tommy John? A completely healthy Daisuke was barely servicable.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Yeah, I would be somewhat surprised if Wakefield played next year, but even if he did I can't see him being penciled into a rotation slot. Given how poor he and Lackey have been, I think letting our closer go and improving the back end of the rotation would be a big net gain for the team. I think that'd be pretty hard to argue against given Bard could be paid 1/10th what Papelbon will make and do every bit as good of a job.

 

Beckett, Lester, Buchholz and Lackey are the guys we have who we know will absolutely be in the rotation next year. That leaves one spot to speculate about AND we've gotta pay Papi.

 

A lot of this could be moot if the Sox stay under the lux tax this year. I think they'd have no problem going over a bit to round out the roster if that were the case.

[Dojji]

This is why they bring Wake back.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Yeah for his ~20% below average performance over 140 IP or less. I think you're trolling at this point.

[AtWork]

I would only bring Wakefield back if he was willing to take a minor league deal. He won't be.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Given that Lackey has proved himself to be a big walking talking question mark, I can't see the Sox going into next year with him and wake filling out the back end as their plan A. Mind you, it took a regular SP getting TJ surgery to put Wake in the rotation full-time this year.

[Will617]

It's going to be interesting to see if the Cardinals exercise Wainwright's option after his injury as well.

 

This will definitely happen unless A. There is something seriously wrong with him, or B. There is something seriously wrong with the Cardinals FO. That option is insanely good for Wainwright's talent level.

[SCM33]

Pardon me for playing the pessimist right now, but I hardly would count on DiceK and Wakefield to combine for many starts next season. I would actually be shocked if Theo signed Wakefield for next season.

 

The Sox absolutely need a number 5 starter.

 

As much as it goes against many of the forum, I think Wakefield pitches in Boston until he decides he doesnt want to anymore.

 

This man is retiring a RedSox, whether we like it or not.....whether he decides to play next year or not.

 

He will not wear another uniform, and Theo wont let him.

[Palodios]

This will definitely happen unless A. There is something seriously wrong with him' date=' or B. There is something seriously wrong with the Cardinals FO. That option is insanely good for Wainwright's talent level.[/quote']

 

Well, there is the Pujols factor.

[SoxFanForsyth]

This will definitely happen unless A. There is something seriously wrong with him' date=' or B. There is something seriously wrong with the Cardinals FO. That option is insanely good for Wainwright's talent level.[/quote']

 

Yeah it's a super cheap option. Originally I thought it was a 16mm option, but it's 12mm. Going by the 4x WAR = FA Value, he is worth approximately $24mm in FA money, so they'd be getting him for half price.

 

I was thinking about Carpenter, who's club option is for $15mm. That's the one that will be interesting. If the Cards don't exercise that, they can probably negotiate a little closer with Pujols.

[Palodios]

I would love to see the Sox in some heated talks with Oakland this offseason. They have three high quality starting pitchers who are all relatively cheap. It would probably take a package of Kalish, maybe Lowrie, plus another good hitting prospect, but Oakland could definitely use the boost in offense, big time.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

As much as it goes against many of the forum, I think Wakefield pitches in Boston until he decides he doesnt want to anymore.

 

This man is retiring a RedSox, whether we like it or not.....whether he decides to play next year or not.

 

He will not wear another uniform, and Theo wont let him.

 

He'll definitely retire a Red Sox, no doubt there. And I agree Theo will bring him back until Wake decides to hang 'em up, but the question is in what capacity will he be back? I think if he is back next year it will be in the same role that he was brought back for this year. Plan A, he's the long reliever out of the pen and Plan B or C if things don't shake out well with the rotation, he's a starter until someone gets healthy or something. He isn't going to be penciled into a rotation spot. He hasn't been since 2009. I think Dojji is trying to say "sign papelbon, nevermind the 5th spot of the rotation that's what Wake is for" but that doesn't seem likely to me.

[Palodios]

I could very easily seeing him taking April and May off next year, and the Red Sox signing him midway through the season when one starter, plus Weiland, plus Doubront all go down/prove ineffective.

[redsoxbeatz]

Damn. When I see it written out like that makes me really wonder if CC deserved 20/yr. :/ I hope he returns to his 7.5 WAR in coming seasons.

 

Pedey deserves at least 12, Ells too.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Who cares what they're getting paid? I just hope he contributes.

[SoxSport]

Who cares what they're getting paid? I just hope he contributes.

 

Yes and no. I guess you could say the same thing about steroids. Who cares? I just hope he contributes.

 

Maybe the answer is, in the end, we all wind up paying their salaries. The Red Sox just decide where the money will be spent.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yes and no. I guess you could say the same thing about steroids. Who cares? I just hope he contributes.

 

Maybe the answer is, in the end, we all wind up paying their salaries. The Red Sox just decide where the money will be spent.

 

Huh?? How is cheating anything like the salary?? That makes zero sense. Look - you worry about the contracts in the offseason. At this point, his $142mm is a sunk cost. Can't do anything about it. At the time that the contract was made, Crawford was coming off a couple seasons where he was a top 6 WAR player in the MLB. In 2010, he was 2nd in WAR in the MLB. Was it a bad contract? Sure. But don't beat a dead horse. The money is paid. You can be pissed that he's not performing consistent with his career trends, that's one thing, but don't value him based on his contract, that's stupid. Value him based on his talent and past performance.

[a700hitter]

Huh?? How is cheating anything like the salary?? That makes zero sense. Look - you worry about the contracts in the offseason. At this point' date=' his $142mm is a sunk cost. Can't do anything about it. At the time that the contract was made, Crawford was coming off a couple seasons where he was a top 6 WAR player in the MLB. In 2010, he was 2nd in WAR in the MLB. Was it a bad contract? Sure. But don't beat a dead horse. The money is paid. You can be pissed that he's not performing consistent with his career trends, that's one thing, but don't value him based on his contract, that's stupid. Value him based on his talent and past performance.[/quote']I don't get this thread at all. Financials? What are we forensic accountants? How could any of us even pretend to know anything about the Red Sox finances. For 4 years, people here were insisting that Dice K really didn't cost $104 million and that we were receiving a revenue stream from Japan as a result of that deal. That has finally been debunked by Red Sox management. Can we have a meaningful discussion of Red Sox finances by people who have no knowledge and no access to the facts and more than half the people on this site probably don't manage their own checkbooks? I don't think so. If this is some sort of early Hot Stove thread, then call it that.

[BeepBeepYoureDumb]

Yes and no. I guess you could say the same thing about steroids. Who cares? I just hope he contributes.

 

Maybe the answer is, in the end, we all wind up paying their salaries. The Red Sox just decide where the money will be spent.

 

I don't see the steroid connection at all. I'm not being apathetic when I say who cares, I'm trying to make a point. We actually don't pay their salaries, as fans all that should matter to us is the standings. The Sox won't be held back by a bad contract, we're not rooting for the Nationals here, if they want to go and sign somebody to a huge deal again this offseason they probably can. One underperforming player on a big contract doesn't matter to the Red Sox.

[Palodios]

I don't see the steroid connection at all. I'm not being apathetic when I say who cares' date=' I'm trying to make a point. We actually don't pay their salaries, as fans all that should matter to us is the standings. The Sox won't be held back by a bad contract, [b']we're not rooting for the Nationals here,[/b] if they want to go and sign somebody to a huge deal again this offseason they probably can. One underperforming player on a big contract doesn't matter to the Red Sox.

 

My buddy in D.C is paying $5 for tickets though

[mvp 78]

I don't get this thread at all. Financials? What are we forensic accountants? How could any of us even pretend to know anything about the Red Sox finances. For 4 years' date=' people here were insisting that Dice K really didn't cost $104 million and that we were receiving a revenue stream from Japan as a result of that deal. That has finally been debunked by Red Sox management. Can we have a meaningful discussion of Red Sox finances by people who have no knowledge and no access to the facts and more than half the people on this site probably don't manage their own checkbooks? I don't think so. If this is some sort of early Hot Stove thread, then call it that.[/quote']

 

Actually, there's going to be a subsequent event footnote disclosure regarding Wake's 2012 status in the 2011 Sox Financial Statements. I'm not sure how this will apply to the 2012 F/S just yet...

[SoxFanForsyth]

Actually' date=' there's going to be a subsequent event footnote disclosure regarding Wake's 2012 status in the 2011 Sox Financial Statements. I'm not sure how this will apply to the 2012 F/S just yet...[/quote']

 

FAS 165 specifically states that you do not have to disclose any information regarding a contract status for players over the age of 65. I think Wakefield is exempt from the footnote.