7/15 @ Tampa Bay

[FredLynn]

That's too bad' date=' because Salty is just an average catcher on his best day.[/quote']

 

I understand that, but I don't think that Lavarnay is even considered average right now. He is a work in progress. If he can become average defensively then I agree with you, he can't get here fast enough

[a700hitter]

I understand that' date=' but I don't think that Lavarnay is even considered average right now. He is a work in progress. If he can become average defensively then I agree with you, he can't get here fast enough[/quote']Then we had better be looking elsewhere for a catcher.

[AtWork]

If we only had a better right fielder, we wouldn't be losing by 5 runs. Our pitching is fine.

 

P.S. - Is anyone really surprised that Miller's results have finally matched his peripherals?

[Dojji]

Lavarnway's skills as a catcher are underrated IMHO. A worse problem is that he just isn't getting a lot of reps in Pawtucket. It seems clear that they're grooming him for a Matthew LeCroy role more than a starting catcher role.

[FredLynn]

He got that number IN PAWTUCKET. You know, the league Miller was flat out dominating?

 

For God's sake, do you think a guy who's putching to a mid 4's ERA for the FREAKING PAWSOX is going to put up the same numbers in Boston?

 

Please be sane .

 

Tony Pena, Jr. is a better option than Kevin Millwood.

 

It doesn't have to be Millwood. It just can't be Miller time any more. He got bombed his last two times out. And the Rays are not even a strong offensive team. He hasn't corrected his control problems, and you just can't pitch that way.

[boston22407]

 

Carl 1st Ab Tonight

[Dojji]

Then we had better be looking elsewhere for a catcher.

 

Yes, let's wave the magic wand of get-a-catcher. That will fix everything.

 

You realize that in order to "get a catcher" someone actually has to have one to give up. You aren't going to find a guy much better than Salty that way.

 

Sooner or later you're going to have to get accept the fact that Varitek spoiled us for years, and that Salty, by the ordinary standards everyone else uses for what a catcher is, is a prefectly acceptable big league catcher. There simply aren't guys out there to acquire that are much better than Salty right now.

[Dojji]

If we only had a better right fielder, we wouldn't be losing by 5 runs. Our pitching is fine.

 

P.S. - Is anyone really surprised that Miller's results have finally matched his peripherals?

 

Nope. And I still say that by and large Miller has been a positive for the Sox. He just had a bad outing against a pretty decent lineup tonight. Happens to every young pitcher from time to time. Heck you knew Lester was good because he had a knack for wriggling out of these, and he still got lit up from time to time.

[d-money]

The only good thing about all this is that the yankees are losing as well.Need Lackey to put up a solid start tomorrow.

[FredLynn]

Here is a recent scouting report on Lavarnway:

 

Well below-average speed. Rough overall catching skills. Limited range behind the dish and slow reactions. Tends to stab at offerings along with catching hand drifting when framing offerings. Average blocking skills, with need to improve how he controls balls bouncing out in front of him and fluidity of footwork. Has made strides with his catch-and-release mechanics since joining the organization. Hard worker and dedicated to honing craft. Despite improvements, catching skills are limited. Will need to increase defensive versatility. Projects as DH/bat off the bench at the major league level.

[a700hitter]

Yes, let's wave the magic wand of get-a-catcher. That will fix everything.

 

You realize that in order to "get a catcher" someone actually has to have one to give up. You aren't going to find a guy much better than Salty that way.

 

Sooner or later you're going to have to get accept the fact that Varitek spoiled us for years, and that Salty, by the ordinary standards everyone else uses for what a catcher is, is a prefectly acceptable big league catcher. There simply aren't guys out there to acquire that are much better than Salty right now.

I'm happy if he hits .250

[Dojji]

Here is a recent scouting report on Lavarnway:

 

Well below-average speed. Rough overall catching skills. Limited range behind the dish and slow reactions. Tends to stab at offerings along with catching hand drifting when framing offerings. Average blocking skills, with need to improve how he controls balls bouncing out in front of him and fluidity of footwork. Has made strides with his catch-and-release mechanics since joining the organization. Hard worker and dedicated to honing craft. Despite improvements, catching skills are limited. Will need to increase defensive versatility. Projects as DH/bat off the bench at the major league level.

 

And that's overly harsh. His catching skills are raw and he has some bad habits, but he's also showing a good arm, and has the bat to make up for some mistakes behind the dish.

 

I've never believed that framing pitches was that big a deal, and blocking pitches never struck me as a problem a catcher couldn't hit their way around unless they were just absurdly bad at it. Worse, they aren't really giving him the repetitions to improve in the minors, which for a guy who could project to be a catcher, I consider a cardinal sin. Don't make up your mind beyond the ability of a player to prove you wrong. That's just absurd.

[Dojji]

I'm happy if he hits .250

 

At least 18 teams in this league would be over the moon ecstatic if their catcher hit .250. Especially if there were as much power behind it as Salty's flashed so far.

[FredLynn]

Nope. And I still say that by and large Miller has been a positive for the Sox. He just had a bad outing against a pretty decent lineup tonight. Happens to every young pitcher from time to time. Heck you knew Lester was good because he had a knack for wriggling out of these' date=' and he still got lit up from time to time.[/quote']

 

His ERA as of now is about 5.69. His last two outings have been horrible. He is still wild. I understand that you think that he is not the worst option we have, but IMO its time to give someone else a chance to do better.

[SoxSport]

Maddon's GP: walks, walks, walks.

Tito's GP: Do your thing, guys.

 

Miller will live or die on his heat. Stop pussying this kid.

 

This club is in trouble without Lester and Buchholz.

[Dojji]

His ERA took a jump because of one bad start in a small sample size. Did you really think he was any bet at all to finish the season with an ERA south of 4? That would have been incredibly fluky.

 

And giving someone else a chance to do better involves losing Miller. We'd have to waive him, and too many people are anxious for pitching depth. I don't doubt we'll see Doubront at some point, and maybe Miller continues to pitch poorly and forces our hand, but he hasn't done it yet, and there's no sense in rushing into throwing value away.

[a700hitter]

At least 18 teams in this league would be over the moon ecstatic if their catcher hit .250. Especially if there were as much power behind it as Salty's flashed so far.

I said that I would be happy if he hit .250. Do you think I was lying?

[Cocos Disciples]

Not surprised at all by this outcome. It's time for Beckett and Lester to be back and healthy.

 

Oh well, try the reverse lock again tomorrow.

[Cocos Disciples]

I said that I would be happy if he hit .250. Do you think I was lying?

 

He's hitting .251. Are you happy with Salty?

[FredLynn]

And that's overly harsh. His catching skills are raw and he has some bad habits, but he's also showing a good arm, and has the bat to make up for some mistakes behind the dish.

 

I've never believed that framing pitches was that big a deal, and blocking pitches never struck me as a problem a catcher couldn't hit their way around unless they were just absurdly bad at it. Worse, they aren't really giving him the repetitions to improve in the minors, which for a guy who could project to be a catcher, I consider a cardinal sin. Don't make up your mind beyond the ability of a player to prove you wrong. That's just absurd.

 

On the other hand, if you are right and they aren't going to give him the reps at Pawtucket, then he WILL never be a ML catcher, at least in our organization. Thats something they really should be doing, given the paucity of catchers around that can hit a baseball.

Catching is largely a defensive position in the ML. Besides Mauer, who really is good at catching and hitting-I mean with an OPS of the league average or better? Not many. You gotta be able to defend behind the plate.

[BornToRun]

Not surprised at all by this outcome. It's time for Beckett and Lester to be back and healthy.

 

Oh well, try the reverse lock again tomorrow.

 

f***ing Shields pitching. I'm more worried about that than Lackey toeing the rubber. Hopefully Beckett can at least nab Sunday's game for us and then we get to embarrass Baltimore again.

[FredLynn]

His ERA took a jump because of one bad start in a small sample size. Did you really think he was any bet at all to finish the season with an ERA south of 4? That would have been incredibly fluky.

 

And giving someone else a chance to do better involves losing Miller. We'd have to waive him, and too many people are anxious for pitching depth. I don't doubt we'll see Doubront at some point, and maybe Miller continues to pitch poorly and forces our hand, but he hasn't done it yet, and there's no sense in rushing into throwing value away.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that there are other alternatives that deserve a shot.

[AtWork]

Nope. And I still say that by and large Miller has been a positive for the Sox. He just had a bad outing against a pretty decent lineup tonight. Happens to every young pitcher from time to time. Heck you knew Lester was good because he had a knack for wriggling out of these' date=' and he still got lit up from time to time.[/quote']

 

He has a 5.68 ERA and a 1.82 WHIP. His career ERA is 5.68 and his career WHIP is 1.73. Nothing's changed.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'd also like an explanation from ESPN.com on how the wind at the Trop is at -1 MPH.

[SoxSport]

I don't like what I see with Miller.

He's a Randy Johnson type 95 lefty.

Seems like they are making him throw 90 to throw strikes.

But he ain't throwin' strikes.

[AtWork]

His ERA took a jump because of one bad start in a small sample size. Did you really think he was any bet at all to finish the season with an ERA south of 4? That would have been incredibly fluky.

 

And giving someone else a chance to do better involves losing Miller. We'd have to waive him, and too many people are anxious for pitching depth. I don't doubt we'll see Doubront at some point, and maybe Miller continues to pitch poorly and forces our hand, but he hasn't done it yet, and there's no sense in rushing into throwing value away.

 

What about his 1.48 WHIP coming into tonight (same as Daisuke this year). That didn't jump just because of tonight.

[Dojji]

Not many really good two way catchers. Buster Posey and Brian McCann, along with Mauer who you mentioned, are the ones I can recall off the top of my head.

 

Teams are obsessive about protecting any catcher who can hit by moving him to a "safer" position, in order to preserve their bats, which I think is part of what is destroying Lavarnway's chances. I consider that a mistake. If a guy can hit and play a premium position, ride him out if you have to. Let 'im gol.

[a700hitter]

He's hitting .251. Are you happy with Salty?

If I would be happy if he hits .250 and he is hitting .251, what do you think?

[FredLynn]

I'd also like an explanation from ESPN.com on how the wind at the Trop is at -1 MPH.

 

They serve lots of bean burritos at the concession stands.

[a700hitter]

They serve lots of bean burritos at the concession stands.

:lol: Plus, lots of retirees.