Andy Pettitte to retire...

[a700hitter]

I'll say this on Schilling. Sometimes a HoF bid is better when you go out at the right time. The last pitch he threw was in a winning effort in Game 2 of the World Series. If there is ever a good way to end a career, winning a World Series game on the way to a sweep is that. It's better than trying to come back when you don't have it and leaving on a very sour note like many HoF pitchers do. And it cements his reputation as a dominant playoff pitcher far better than any other way that career could have ended.

 

That 2008 contract and the medical thing? That'll be forgotten. Just one of those things where crap happens. I'm glad he went out when he did, he was near the edge of losing his stuff anyway and I had no real illusions that he'd be dominant in 2008 no matter what happened. As it is, other than a few dedicated haters he ensured he'll be remembered fondly.

IMO Curt Schilling is a baseball god. He came to Boston saying he was coming to break an 86 year old curse, and he delivered and helped the team to two championships-- the only two thus far in my long lifetime. Very few players or coaches can make good on such a boast. Isn't that right, Rex Ryan.

[DirtDog]

Maybe swindle wasn't the perfect wording but I was just pointing out that he tried to give it another go. It's not like he retired off into the sunset after 07 world series. Honestly only he knows for sure if he was really hurt. Plenty of guys in professional sports go through physicals or tests and pass, sign a big contract and then it is found out they were injured later.

 

And you're right. Since he never threw a pitch in 2008, if will never be in the record books, and people will forget it ever happened.

[TeddyBallGame9]

Oh come on. Really?

 

Manny Ramirez in all likelihood used them during his sox career. David Ortiz used them. Nomar used them. Damon was linked to them. Mo Vaughn used them. Jeremy Giambi used them. Gabe Kapler has been linked to them. Manny Alexander used them. Jose Canseco used them.

 

The RedSox are just as much linked to steroid usage, if not more than most teams in all of baseball.

 

Andy Pettitte was a lot of things, bad guy is not one of them.

 

He was a rat? Yeah, on Roger Clemens....a complete shitbag who only cared about himself. Roger Clemens, a guy who asked me for 10 bucks for an autograph at a practically EMPTY fenway park in 1993 when I was 10 years old.

 

Play fair, rid your mind of anything that had to do with steroid usage, admissions, denials or whatever the criteria, and Pettitte was a good guy, and an awesome competitor.

 

Thank you. Andy Pettitte = class act.

[TeddyBallGame9]

 

 

Pettitte claimed to have turned to Jesus for guidance when he left the Yankees for Houston. He claimed he went to Houston to be close to his family. Yet, only a few short years later his family somehow must have relocated east, because he returned to the Yankees for big bucks. Those decisions had everything to do with money and nothing to do with Jesus or family. That makes him a phony and a hypocrite. I can't stomach religious hypocrisy.

 

 

NO human being is perfect. Why is it so terrible for Pettitte to turn to Jesus for guidance, comfort and peace? Many people do it every day.

[bsox0407]

Sad for Baseball to see such a great pitcher go. But Great for the Sox. Finally he will be done killing us.

[a700hitter]

NO human being is perfect. Why is it so terrible for Pettitte to turn to Jesus for guidance' date=' comfort and peace? Many people do it every day.[/quote']I have no problem with people turning to Jesus. I have problems with religious hypocrites, and Pettitte is a religious hypocrite IMO. You can love him if you want, but you will never convince me that he is a man of good character.

[a700hitter]

Character and integrity means doing the right thing when no one is looking. Andy P stuck needles in his ass to cheat. I won't crucify him for that cause many players were cheating at the time. However, he held himself out as a man of high religious and moral character while doing it. He continued to lie about it even after he got caught until the stakes were raised by the Congressional inquiry. That's not character or integrity.

[Palodios]

How many significant players have outright admitted to using steroids, at all?

[DirtDog]

Alex Rodriguez and Mark McGwire are the only ones I'm aware of. I'm pretty sure Jose Canseco has too, but I don't think he held a press conference or anything.

[italstallianion]

and don't forget how long and arduous it was for McGwire to finally admit it.

[Keeper]

Admitting it after you've already been caught doesn't take any balls. Palmeiro was caught and yet he still denies it. Now, that takes balls.

[a700hitter]

How many significant players have outright admitted to using steroids' date=' at all?[/quote']How many ratted out their best friend? Answer: None

 

Correction: 1 guy did it-- the classy scumbag religious hypocrite lying Pettitte=no integrity.

[TeddyBallGame9]

How many ratted out their best friend? Answer: None

 

Correction: 1 guy did it-- the classy scumbag religious hypocrite lying Pettitte=no integrity.

 

Whatever.

[a700hitter]

I just think that you should judge people by what they did, not on a crafted public persona. When the lights and cameras were off and the pressure and the heat got turned up, he showed no character. The fact that he made no waves in the clubhouse and was a gentleman during interviews is irrelevant. That is just phony-ass PR stuff.

[Emmz]

Admitting you did steroids when you get caught is preventing damage control, not being a class act. And yes, I do agree that regardless, you shouldn't rat your friends out, even if it is a piece of s*** like Roger Clemens, who probably deserved it (I know I thought it was sweet). I just think it's more justifiable to rat out someone like Clemens, who probably would have thrown Pettite and his family under a bus to save his ass.

[yankees228]

a700, you're acting as if Pettitte blew the whistle on Clemens. He was already named and a great deal of proof supplied by his former trainer (and others) was already on the table. Pettitte simply added another small piece of evidence, hardly a 'make or break' thing for Clemens.

[bsox0407]

a700' date=' you're acting as if Pettitte blew the whistle on Clemens. He was already named and a great deal of proof supplied by his former trainer (and others) was already on the table. Pettitte simply added another small piece of evidence, hardly a 'make or break' thing for Clemens.[/quote']

 

However his former trainer's testimony at the time was far from credible.

[Emmz]

if anything, that makes it even worse for Pettite, that he really didn't have to rat his friend out, but he did. Like I said, don't care that he did it, but I don't think it shows class.

[yankees228]

However his former trainer's testimony at the time was far from credible.

 

Sure, but that doesn't counter my point that we shouldn't speak as if Pettitte blew the whistle on Clemens.

 

So, just to be clear, essentially you guys (the ones who think Pettitte is wrong by offering up evidence on Clemens) think that Pettitte should have lied to the congressional committee.

[Divinity]

Andy Pettitte used human growth hormone to recover from an elbow injury in 2002, he said he tried HGH on two occasions, stressing he did it to heal faster and not enhance his performance. He emphasized he never used steroids.

 

HGH wasn't banned by baseball until January 2005 and still isn't tested for in MLB to this day.

[Emmz]

According to who?

[yankees228]

Emmz, in response to me or Divinity?

[Emmz]

Divinity.

 

It's from Pettite's big PR statement when he got busted. It's called damage control.

[Divinity]

I believe half of it is true, I think he never used steroids only HGH, when the drug wasn't even banned in baseball.

 

He wasn't pumping the juice into his arm to increase power and velocity. He was using "legal at the time" means to improve his chances of getting back to work faster.

[a700hitter]

a700' date=' you're acting as if Pettitte blew the whistle on Clemens. He was already named and a great deal of proof supplied by his former trainer (and others) was already on the table. Pettitte simply added another small piece of evidence, hardly a 'make or break' thing for Clemens.[/quote']Other than the testimony of the trainer, who Clemens was trying to discredit and financially bankrupt, Pettitte and his wife are the only other witnesses regarding Clemen's perjury. Pettitte is the only other eyewitness to his Clemens PED use. Pettitte could have invoked his 5th amendment right against self incrimination, but that would have severely damaged his career, so he sold out his best friend. He did it like such a coward too. He was too cowardly to give his statement to Congress at the hearings and look Clemens in the face. Instead he cut the deal to swear out affidavits.

[yankees228]

Other than the testimony of the trainer' date=' who Clemens was trying to discredit and financially bankrupt, Pettitte and his wife are the only other witnesses regarding Clemen's perjury. Pettitte is the only other eyewitness to his Clemens PED use. Pettitte could have invoked his 5th amendment right against self incrimination, but that would have severely damaged his career, so he sold out his best friend. He did it like such a coward too. He was too cowardly to give his statement to Congress at the hearings and look Clemens in the face. Instead he cut the deal to swear out affidavits.[/quote']

 

Or he did it because he wanted to be forthright with Congress. How do you know his motivation?

[a700hitter]

Divinity.

 

It's from Pettite's big PR statement when he got busted. It's called damage control.

Also, the statement was a lie. That was his statement after the Mitchell Report. He admitted to using it twice, and that turned out to be a lie. When Congress subpoenaed him, he recalled additional times that he used.

 

As for the "i only used it to recover from injury and get back on the field" argument, that is the main purpose of roids and HGH-- to allow the athlete to be able to train more with better recovery periods. If they tried to train as hard without the juice, they would injure themselves or suffer from fatigue. He was a cheater, and his rationalization is a very lame attempt at an excuse. He was taking it to get an edge and heal faster.

[yankees228]

Now on the topic of steroids, using steroids is using steroids, regardless of the purpose. But steroid use means nothing to me, so it doesn't affect my opinion of Andy Pettitte, or any other player.

[a700hitter]

Or he did it because he wanted to be forthright with Congress. How do you know his motivation?

His motivation can be inferred from the circumstances. It is only my opinion, and only Pettitte knows the truth. If he was a forthright guy, he would have been completely forthright in his statement after the Mitchell Report, but he wasn't. He said that he only used it the two times mentioned in the Mitchell Report. He was forthright when Congress called, because his lawyer told him the consequences of lying. Then and only then did he remember additional times where he used HGH. Unfortunately for Clemens, his attorney could not convince him of the severity of the consequences.

[yankees228]

His motivation can be inferred from the circumstances. It is only my opinion' date=' and only Pettitte knows the truth. If he was a forthright guy, he would have been completely forthright in his statement after the Mitchell Report, but he wasn't. He said that he only used it the two times mentioned in the Mitchell Report. He was forthright when Congress called, because his lawyer told him the consequences of lying. Then and only then did he remember additional times where he used HGH. Unfortunately for Clemens, his attorney could not convince him of the severity of the consequences.[/quote']

 

Sure, but that's entirely conjecture. After the Mitchell reported he omitted mentioning his steroid use in later years, but it's certainly possible that once Congress subpoenaed him, he used it as an opportunity to correct his previous error because he felt he did the wrong thing in 2008. Now obviously we're speaking in the realm of opinion, so talking in uncertain terms is obviously welcome, and you could very well be right. But in my opinion, formulating an opinion on something that may or may not be accurate isn't justified.