Moss to Vikings?

[Emmz]

Close games are fun' date=' but I would love it if my favorite team was blowing out their opponents week in and week out. I'm not a Pats fan, but I loved watching that team play more than any other team that I wasn't a fan of.[/quote']

 

This. The Patriots were just electric. When they were at their peak, they were absolutely invincible. But they started to look more human towards the end of the regular season and the playoffs. They were no longer winning every game by scores like 45-7 or 52-0 or whatever. I predicted they would finally lose in the Super Bowl, not because they weren't good, but because they started to lose it. Also, the Giants scrapped with them in their meeting during the regular season.

[Keeper]

Holy crap' date=' never seen that before. Totally unsurprising though, Shannon Brown is a ridiculous athlete.[/quote']

 

Very impressive. MJ had a similar rejection against Ron Mercer -

[SCM33]

Remember the 2003 and 2004 Vikings? They started out 6-0 and 6-1, finished 8-8 and 9-7. So what's your point? You're pretty much convinced that this team's the best in the NFL, even though they got destroyed by the Jets, back when they had an offense too. They almost lost to the Chargers and Vikings too.

 

All roads lead back to the old ends justify the means thing.

 

They were not destroyed by the Jets. They lost the game. Its their only loss and its a loss on the road to a very good team. A team which now sits behind us in the division standings.

 

Pats still have an offense, its scaled down quite a bit, but it is an offense that is evolving.

 

Would you of guessed that they would be undefeated since Moss was traded?

Would you have guessed that they would have beat Baltimore knowing that they PASTED us on our home field WITH a healthy Moss in the lineup?

Would you have guessed that this defense is turning in to one of the better defenses against the run?

Would you have guessed that we finally have a running attack AFTER trading what was once considered our feautre back (Maroney) and Fred Taylor has missed every game but the opener?

 

There are a couple of things that you look for in a successful team. These things do not ALWAYS result in individual statistics.

 

1. Defense. The pats, while looking like swiss cheese sometimes in the secondary is improving. Their run defense is starting to be talked about in terms of the leagues best. They play a team defense which means the ends and outside LB's are setting the edge. Theyre interior D-lineman are occupying the O-lineman. Wilfork commands a double team which is allowing their linebackers to roam free and make tackles.

 

A couple of things need to improve in the secondary for them to start becoming an elite defense. The safeties need to read plays better. Part of the reason that opposing QB's are having such a high success rate is that they have a lot of time to throw the ball. The defense is starting to buy in on the team defense concept, and if everyone is doing their job, as little as it is on a individual level means that others will be allowed to make plays and hit the quarterback. The CB's are doing ok, its not their fault that WR's are running their routes, then getting open beyond their diagramed route bc of lack of pressure. The safeties are playing way too safe at this point, they need to come up and hit people, they need to make WR's pay for going across the middle. WR's are a little too comfortable right now. They ARE improving though. If safeties are playing a little safe, then maybe its time to start using them in stunt pacakges. Use them to get some pressure on the QB and let your CB's try to make plays. The linebackers, while great in the run game have a lot to be desired in the passing game. In the 3-4 defense, the OLB MUST be able to read and react to RB's and slot receivers in the flat zones. The MLB MUST be able to read and react to TE ins/outs and slants. They must be also be able to react to slant routes although the safeties also help out with the slot receiver slants.

 

2. Clock management. The Pats need to get the possession time above 30 minutes a game. They are at about 29 minutes a game right now. They need to get that up around the 32-33 minute range. Clock management is a sign of defense getting off the field and the offense moving the ball. Its also a sign of a team with a RB who is eating chunks of time of the clock. We have a RB to do that, we just need to get in to more 3rd and short situations which is an indication that we need to be more productive in the passing game on first and second downs. Its also an indication that we are taking stupid penalties and/or negetive gains with sacks or incomplete passes. We have enough players to use a more productive short game offensive approach whether it be running the ball, play action, screens or using the TE's. BGJE isnt Barry Sanders, but he isnt Maroney either. He always gains positive yards....whether its 1,2....or 5. Any of those outcomes are better than 2nd and 10 with a dead clock because of an incomplete pass 35 yards downfield.

 

3. Field position. This is an area that has hurt them this year and it should be a strength. Gostowski is killing the ball on kickoffs, but the Pats offense kills the defense at times because the opposing offense puts together a 6 play drive...only to punt the ball deep in our end. Then the offense goes 3 and out which is putting the defense right back on the field, and in s***** field position. The Pats defense then gets gassed and gives up points. The offense has to start putting together longer drives which will give the defense better field position. The defense cannot bail them out all year long, they are good and getting better but you cant rely on them all year long or they will burn out.

 

Those 3 things are the name of the game. If you execute defense and field position the points will come. When you kill the clock the other team has less opportunity to score. Get used to 10 or less point wins, this is the way we did it in the past and it looks like this is the way we are reloading with to win in the future.

[yankees228]

Very impressive. MJ had a similar rejection against Ron Mercer -

 

Wow, he pinned him and caught it clean with two hands. Amazing.

[TheKilo]

You're all absolutely ridiculous. The 2007/2008 Patriots are the best team any of you will get to watch during your lifetimes. That team would have dismantled any of the Patriots Super Bowl winning teams 9 times out of 10. Just because they lost the Super Bowl on the flukiest play I've ever seen in my life does not mean they are any lesser of a team than the Super Bowl winning teams are.

[YanksHater213]

Numbers wise, sure. But we didn't win s*** and that counts for a lot in my book. It was a fun and magical year but you don't win the Super Bowl and you are not one of the best ever.

 

Also, SCM I think the time of possession numbers would have looked much better in the Vikings and Ravens games had we not dropped into deep zones so much in the second halves. We were taking away the big play which effectively made us depend on the other team making mistakes underneath. I agree though on the whole, we need the ball longer.

[Dojji]

They just made a radical change to the nature and character of their team, I don't think even BB should be reasonably expected to rewrite/restore the old playbook in 3 games, so what he's done in quickly getting them back to the old Patriots way well enough to win games against decent teams is fairly impressive.

[TheKilo]

Numbers wise, sure. But we didn't win s*** and that counts for a lot in my book. It was a fun and magical year but you don't win the Super Bowl and you are not one of the best ever.

 

Also, SCM I think the time of possession numbers would have looked much better in the Vikings and Ravens games had we not dropped into deep zones so much in the second halves. We were taking away the big play which effectively made us depend on the other team making mistakes underneath. I agree though on the whole, we need the ball longer.

 

That's such crap and you know it. If you had Vegas give odds on who would be cavorts between that team and the other three Pats Super Bowl Winning teams I guarantee the 07/08 Pats would be favored by close to a touchdown.

 

Just because Edgar Renteria has two hits that helped teams win the world series doesn't mean I want him as the Sox's starting SS Next season.

[YanksHater213]

That's such crap and you know it. If you had Vegas give odds on who would be cavorts between that team and the other three Pats Super Bowl Winning teams I guarantee the 07/08 Pats would be favored by close to a touchdown.

 

Just because Edgar Renteria has two hits that helped teams win the world series doesn't mean I want him as the Sox's starting SS Next season.

 

You know who the 07/08 Pats kind of reminded me of?

 

The 01/02 Rams...

[yankees228]

You're all absolutely ridiculous. The 2007/2008 Patriots are the best team any of you will get to watch during your lifetimes. That team would have dismantled any of the Patriots Super Bowl winning teams 9 times out of 10. Just because they lost the Super Bowl on the flukiest play I've ever seen in my life does not mean they are any lesser of a team than the Super Bowl winning teams are.

 

Obviously I was thrilled with how that Super Bowl ended, but I remember saying to someone that even though they didn't win the SB, the 2007/08 Pats are one of the greatest if not the greatest NFL team of all time. Of course that made the Giants' victory even sweeter.

 

One game, one flukey ending, doesn't change how good a team actually was. Just by happenstance, the Pats' one loss that year happened to come in the Super Bowl, instead of some meaningless mid-season game.

[yankees228]

You know who the 07/08 Pats kind of reminded me of?

 

The 01/02 Rams...

 

I think there are two key differences. The Rams had a much better running game, while the Pats had a much better overall defense.

 

But is your point that neither team was built to win at the end?

[italstallianion]

Did anyone else see that the owner of the restaurant that catered the food that Randy Moss ripped on, was shown on ESPN? I can't believe that he'd agree to be on TV about that type of incident. He was practically in tears about how Randy Moss insulted his food.

[YanksHater213]

I think there are two key differences. The Rams had a much better running game, while the Pats had a much better overall defense.

 

But is your point that neither team was built to win at the end?

 

They were teams that solely relied on offense to win their games, rather than having a defense to lean on.

[yankees228]

They were teams that solely relied on offense to win their games' date=' rather than having a defense to lean on.[/quote']

 

2007/08 Patriots' Defensive Rankings:

 

Points Per Game: 4th

Yards Per Game: 4th

 

Not to mention, going into the SB, they had just come off an AFC Championship Game where their defense really won it for them.

[YanksHater213]

You really can't say that we relied on our defense to win games though, no matter what the numbers said. We were winning games by 4 touchdowns. We were not winning games with our defense. Teams who rely on offense (01-02 Rams, 07-08 Pats, all those Colts teams until they won) do not nearly do as well as teams who rely on their defense.

[yankees228]

You really can't say that we relied on our defense to win games though' date=' no matter what the numbers said. We were winning games by 4 touchdowns. We were not winning games with our defense. Teams who rely on offense (01-02 Rams, 07-08 Pats, all those Colts teams until they won) do not nearly do as well as teams who rely on their defense.[/quote']

 

So are you essentially saying that the Pats would have benefitted from a weaker offense because it would have tested the defense more during the regular season?

[YanksHater213]

I don't think our defense was as ready as they could be for that Giants game. Plus our offense was way too cocky and not ready for a defense like the Giants. I mean, we all remember Brady's quote that went to the effect of something like "really, you're only giving us 14 points?"

 

We weren't tested enough that year defensively to be ready for that game (not breaking up Boss' retarded catch, Samuel's INT gaffe that would have won it, etc).

[yankees228]

I don't think our defense was as ready as they could be for that Giants game. Plus our offense was way too cocky and not ready for a defense like the Giants. I mean, we all remember Brady's quote that went to the effect of something like "really, you're only giving us 14 points?"

 

We weren't tested enough that year defensively to be ready for that game (not breaking up Boss' retarded catch, Samuel's INT gaffe that would have won it, etc).

 

Boss' big catch was a pretty clean and well executed skinny post. I assume you're talking about Tyree's catch, which I think is just more luck than anything. Speaking directly to your point, Tyree was going up to catch that ball with Rodney Harrison, and I don't think a case can be made that Harrison didn't make a play on the ball because he's not a 'tested' defensive player.

 

I guess your general point is that the Pats were hurt by a certain complacency that developed over the course of winning 18 straight games, many of them by wide margins. I don't think I buy that, especially considering they had to win close games in the AFC Divisional Round and Conference Championship (with, as I already mentioned, the latter being won by the defense). I'm not sure we can pinpoint an overall reason why they lost that game, and I tend to think the Giants just played a slightly better game that day, and got a few key breaks.

 

But I understand what you're saying, we just see this thing a bit differently.

[Palodios]

Not really tested? They beat the Giants earlier in the 2007 season.

[YanksHater213]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5754088

 

He knows what he's talking about.

[boston22407]

Citing a source close to Randy Moss, Ian Rapoport of the Boston Herald reports that Moss would be willing to sit out the remainder of the season if he dislikes the team that claims him off waivers.

Moss reportedly "wants a ring" from the team that claims him. Moss' agent, Joel Segal, has likely made the receiver's feelings known throughout the league. Obviously, it's going to be a prohibitive factor for less competitive clubs. According to Rapoport, Moss visited the Jets' facility on Tuesday because "He sees their potential and realizes their lack of deep threat." Moss apparently isn't a big Braylon Edwards fan. For what it's worth, Bodog.com has the Rams as the favorites for Moss at 7/2. He'll be officially claimed at 4ET.

[boston22407]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5754088

 

He knows what he's talking about.

 

i usually don't like him,but kudos to him

[boston22407]

it seems like more and more that he wants to come back to NE,i would bring him in if he shuts the f*** up and plays the game and helps bring a Ring back to Ne this year,and don't re-sign him next year ,but alot of people are saying the rams and dolphins ,lets be real people rams are good but i cant see them getting to the Superbowl, and moss has too much respect for Ne to go play for dolphins or even the Jets ,a hour left in till 4 so we shall see then

[BSN07]

No one is mentioning the 3M left on his deal. That's not chump change. It's gonna make a lot of teams shy away IMO.

[boston22407]

No one is mentioning the 3M left on his deal. That's not chump change. It's gonna make a lot of teams shy away IMO.

 

that's what im saying no one is going to pick him up on the wavier wire s***,and min going to have to pay him the 3m and someone will sign him to a contract for less then 1 mill

[italstallianion]

Maybe the Pats should sign him again.

[TheKilo]

No one is mentioning the 3M left on his deal. That's not chump change. It's gonna make a lot of teams shy away IMO.

 

Uncapped year

[Flynnatic10]

Adam Schefter says moss to Titans.

[boston22407]

he is NOT going to want to go there,do u really think they have a good chance to win a superbowl ??

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Titans aren't that bad of a team.