Moss to Vikings?

[Dojji]

You do not improve your team for this season by dealing away one of the best players of all time who still has it for a draft pick. There is no addition by subtraction talent wise. This is a MASSIVE dropoff. Does it mean the Pats will suck? Maybe not. Maybe they change their gameplan to something that fits better' date=' who knows. But they are absolutely behind the 8 ball for 2010[/quote']

 

Not too surprising that a Yankee fan fails to grasp the distinction made here. Yankees are all about going after a collection of the best possible players and generally lend little thought to the idea of team approach, team unity, team strategy, team cohesiveness, etc. It can work, but so can a less talented team that knows what it is and has the kind of players required to run a consistent, complete football strategy on the field.

[Spudboy]

Other than discarding a mal-content, how can this be viewed as an improvement?

 

Get real.

[Dojji]

Dojji' date=' that is a crock of ********[/quote']

 

Then a crock of ******** won a bunch of superbowls back at the start of this decade.

 

A group of players brought together to play a consistent style of ball, know their role and perform it are better on the whole than a group of the most talented players brought together in a situation where strategy is worked out on the fly or where some of the key players prefer a style of ball others do not thrive in. A consistent approach that favors the way the team in general prefers to play is a better way to build a good team than always going for the flashiest and best guys. No team in football understands that and has demonstrated it better than the New England Patriots. The move to bring Moss in was the right one when it was made, and enough other Pats moves have turned out to look very good in retrospect that I am all for at the very least reserving judgment on this one.

 

I rather expect the Pats to confirm my hunch on this by sniffing around and looking to bring in a running back or two off the waiver wire and seeing if they can't catch some lightning in a bottle to supplement what they already have. It may or may not work but this team has made the decision that it was time for the Moss era to end, and my suspicion is they will now return to their roots and try to dust off the old playbook and develop their younger defensive players to play in that mold.

[Dojji]

Other than discarding a mal-content, how can this be viewed as an improvement?

 

Get real.

 

There is no way on earth that removing a healthy, motivated, humble version of Moss from this team would have been a net improvement. The version that we had though, had some issues that sapped his value, I don't think it's possible to deny that.

 

I think maybe one person is saying that this improves the team in the near term if that. Even Paladios is more saying that it doesn't hurt it all that much and I'm pointing out that the team was going to need to reposition and reclaim its roots sooner or later and so they picked sooner, while there's a postseason to play for and time to get the new-look Pats ready to contend for it. You people who are constantly telling us we think Moss's departure improves the team really need to take some remedial English courses.

[Emmz]

Seriously, this team's defense isn't very good. Their defenses from 2001-2004 were the best. How long is it going to take them to rebuild to that team? Seriously.

[SCM33]

Seriously' date=' this team's defense isn't very good. Their defenses from 2001-2004 were the best. How long is it going to take them to rebuild to that team? Seriously.[/quote']

 

The defense from the championship years werent close to being "the best". They were good. They were a little better than middle of the pack.

 

You said they had hall of famers on defense.....WHO!!!!!???????

 

The ONLY hall of famers they had were maybe Ty Law and Rodney Harrison. Those teams gave up a ton of yards. They just didn't allow the other teams to score TD's.

 

Its amazing that people believe Moss was the end all of greatest WR's to ever play the game and that just because hes gone we are f***ed.....disregarding the fact we still have the BEST QB in the game.....a QB who won with ******** WR's like David Givens, Bethel Johnson, Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Chad Jackson, and Andre Davis. We won with terrible WR's and essentially zero contribution from Tight Ends. Howd that happen? Moss wasnt around back then and we still managed to put points on the board. Maybe the answer is Tom Brady. Maybe the answer is hes that F'ing good.

 

I look at the trade as an act of desperation for the Vikings. Theyre f***ed. 1-2, a 40 something year old QB and a s***** offensive line. If they dont win this year, they never will and they know it once Favre is gone. This was pure desperation by them. It was pure desperation when they begged for an over the hill QB to return.

 

AND FOR THE LAST TIME......this Patriots team was not going to win the Super Bowl anyway....what did they really lose? They gained ANOTHER draft pick. They are reloading. They have 8 picks in the first 3 rounds next year. I refuse to say they are rebuilding, because they are continuing to win. They are reloading for the next run.

[italstallianion]

One thing to note is that the Vikings are generally a good team, so that 3rd rounder will probably be towards the back end of the round.

[Dipre]

Initially, this thread brought copious amounts of Lol and Win. But you guys have sucked the fun right out of the thread. Shame on all of you.

[WhiskeyBreath]

 

 

I look at the trade as an act of desperation for the Vikings.

 

AND FOR THE LAST TIME......this Patriots team was not going to win the Super Bowl anyway....what did they really lose? They gained ANOTHER draft pick. They are reloading. They have 8 picks in the first 3 rounds next year. I refuse to say they are rebuilding, because they are continuing to win. They are reloading for the next run.

 

Giving up a 3rd round pick for one of the best WR in the game isn't desperate, it's a bargain.

 

I agree that this years Patriots team was most likely not going to win a SB this season but who really gives a s*** about this 3rd round pick they received in return? I might be able to get excited about it if this organization has had real good success lately in the draft like some of the elite teams out there but they haven't.

 

Let's just hope Belichick doesn't doesn't trade down with this recent 3rd round pick from the Vikings or goes into retard mode again and wastes a 3rd round pick on a QB like Kevin f***ing O'Connell.

[SCM33]

Giving up a 3rd round pick for one of the best WR in the game isn't desperate, it's a bargain.

 

I agree that this years Patriots team was most likely not going to win a SB this season but who really gives a s*** about this 3rd round pick they received in return? I might be able to get excited about it if this organization has had real good success lately in the draft like some of the elite teams out there but they haven't.

 

Let's just hope Belichick doesn't doesn't trade down with this recent 3rd round pick from the Vikings or goes into retard mode again and wastes a 3rd round pick on a QB like Kevin f***ing O'Connell.

 

You can say what you want about the drafts, but look at their current defense. Their whole defense is guys who have been drafted by the Pats over the past few seasons. Are they good right now? No....they suck....but they will mature, they will learn and they will get better. Just because the drafts haven't provided immediate success does not make them a failure. The only draft that was a complete bust was the year they drafted Maroney (everybody but Gostowski is no longer on the team) in the first round.

 

I do agree and I get frustrated when they continually trade down, but I really believe that this defense.....a defense full of draft picks acquired by trading down will eventually break through.

 

Try to see the big picture. The entire defense is guys with 3 or less years. They have 8 draft picks in the first 3 rounds next season. They have a young and talented receiving corps. They have a relatively young productive offensive line. They look like they might have found a serviceable RB who is also only in his third year.They have special teams locked up with a rookie punter and an all-pro kicker. All these young parts and they are STILL winning.

 

There is a method behind the madness.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I like their last 2 drafts and I'm a fan of most of the young guys on their defense. They are just too young to be consistently good right now. Hopefully they continue to develop and become a strength to this team.

 

I have to disagree with when you said the only draft that was a complete bust was when they took Maroney in 06. 07 and 08 were busts as well. They only have Mayo and Meriweather to show from those 2 drafts.

[Emmz]

The defense from the championship years werent close to being "the best". They were good. They were a little better than middle of the pack.

 

You said they had hall of famers on defense.....WHO!!!!!???????

 

The ONLY hall of famers they had were maybe Ty Law and Rodney Harrison. Those teams gave up a ton of yards. They just didn't allow the other teams to score TD's.

 

Calm down, I said all-pro, Harrison, Law, Seymour, are all HOF players that are now gone, though.

 

Its amazing that people believe Moss was the end all of greatest WR's to ever play the game and that just because hes gone we are f***ed.....disregarding the fact we still have the BEST QB in the game.....a QB who won with ******** WR's like David Givens, Bethel Johnson, Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Chad Jackson, and Andre Davis. We won with terrible WR's and essentially zero contribution from Tight Ends. Howd that happen? Moss wasnt around back then and we still managed to put points on the board. Maybe the answer is Tom Brady. Maybe the answer is hes that F'ing good.

 

LOL, he won Super Bowls by low scores, because of the defense. You're delusional as hell dude.

 

I look at the trade as an act of desperation for the Vikings. Theyre f***ed. 1-2, a 40 something year old QB and a s***** offensive line. If they dont win this year, they never will and they know it once Favre is gone. This was pure desperation by them. It was pure desperation when they begged for an over the hill QB to return.

 

LOL again, they gave up a 3rd round pick, it's a steal of a move. Over the hill? You mean the guy who had 30+ TDs, 4000 yards, a 66% completion rate, and 7 INTs last season? Get over your fits of pro-Boston rage.

 

AND FOR THE LAST TIME......this Patriots team was not going to win the Super Bowl anyway....what did they really lose? They gained ANOTHER draft pick. They are reloading. They have 8 picks in the first 3 rounds next year. I refuse to say they are rebuilding, because they are continuing to win. They are reloading for the next run.

 

Lol, reloading with a 3rd round draft choice in exchange for one of the league's top receivers?

[SCM33]

I like their last 2 drafts and I'm a fan of most of the young guys on their defense. They are just too young to be consistently good right now. Hopefully they continue to develop and become a strength to this team.

 

I have to disagree with when you said the only draft that was a complete bust was when they took Maroney in 06. 07 and 08 were busts as well. They only have Mayo and Meriweather to show from those 2 drafts.

 

Those 2 drafts produced 2 starters on their defense. Those 2 players have the potential to be impact players. Both players have the opportunity to be leaders on that defense. I dont think they were busts.

 

The Maroney draft was a disaster.

[Emmz]

You can say what you want about the drafts, but look at their current defense. Their whole defense is guys who have been drafted by the Pats over the past few seasons. Are they good right now? No....they suck....but they will mature, they will learn and they will get better. Just because the drafts haven't provided immediate success does not make them a failure. The only draft that was a complete bust was the year they drafted Maroney (everybody but Gostowski is no longer on the team) in the first round.

 

I do agree and I get frustrated when they continually trade down, but I really believe that this defense.....a defense full of draft picks acquired by trading down will eventually break through.

 

Try to see the big picture. The entire defense is guys with 3 or less years. They have 8 draft picks in the first 3 rounds next season. They have a young and talented receiving corps. They have a relatively young productive offensive line. They look like they might have found a serviceable RB who is also only in his third year.They have special teams locked up with a rookie punter and an all-pro kicker. All these young parts and they are STILL winning.

 

There is a method behind the madness.

 

Lol, you seriously think that this defense that sucks ass is going to evolve into the top defense in the NFL, like it was mostly from 2001-2007? Seriously?

[Emmz]

Those 2 drafts produced 2 starters on their defense. Those 2 players have the potential to be impact players. Both players have the opportunity to be leaders on that defense. I dont think they were busts.

 

The Maroney draft was a disaster.

 

You think everyone's an impact player dude, you're counting on too many loose ends for me to take your argument seriously.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Those 2 drafts produced 2 starters on their defense. Those 2 players have the potential to be impact players. Both players have the opportunity to be leaders on that defense. I dont think they were busts.

 

The Maroney draft was a disaster.

 

Yeah, thats my point. ONLY 2 starters and Meriweather isn't that great to begin with. At least it looks like they are starting to hit on more draft choices. I'd love to see Bill target an elite talent in the draft and trade up for him if he knows they won't fall to him in the first round.

[SCM33]

They also had one of the best defensive units in NFL history during that time.

 

All time? Yeah...you said it.

 

I love how you live in Minnesota, but you are going to tell me how they won championships. Like I wasnt the one watching the games. Like I wasnt the one following the team.

 

Do me a favor, look at time of possession during the championship years. Tell me how long the defense was on the field. Then tell me how many yards the defense gave up in comparison to other NFL teams. They were at the bottom, and they werent on the field all that long.

 

....and they are reloading. You disregarded the fact that they now have 8 draft picks in the first 3 rounds next year. One of which by trading a WR who wasnt going to be here past the end of the season anyway.

 

Emmz, I will not focus on what your team will do and I do apologize if you thought I was attacking you. I am more concerned about what the Pats will do this season and in future seasons. I wish the best of luck to your team. I am sorry and did not mean to anger you. I think the interests of both of our teams may have taken the original purpose of the thread off the tracks.

[SCM33]

You think everyone's an impact player dude' date=' you're counting on too many loose ends for me to take your argument seriously.[/quote']

 

When did I say anybody was an impact player? Show me once I said that.

 

I said potential.

[Emmz]

All time? Yeah...you said it.

 

I love how you live in Minnesota, but you are going to tell me how they won championships. Like I wasnt the one watching the games. Like I wasnt the one following the team.

 

Do me a favor, look at time of possession during the championship years. Tell me how long the defense was on the field. Then tell me how many yards the defense gave up in comparison to other NFL teams. They were at the bottom, and they werent on the field all that long.

 

....and they are reloading. You disregarded the fact that they now have 8 draft picks in the first 3 rounds next year. One of which by trading a WR who wasnt going to be here past the end of the season anyway.

 

Emmz, I will not focus on what your team will do and I do apologize if you thought I was attacking you. I am more concerned about what the Pats will do this season and in future seasons. I wish the best of luck to your team. I am sorry and did not mean to anger you. I think the interests of both of our teams may have taken the original purpose of the thread off the tracks.

 

I just think you could be a little more respectful and realistic. The 2001-2004 Patriots DID field what many consider one of the best defensive units in NFL history. They had 6 all-pros on their squad, if you don't think they're elite, you're out of your mind, they held the Rams, one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history, to nothing for most of the game. The Pats built a strong possession offense on short pass receivers and power running backs, not unlike the Steelers of, well, the past 40 years. Their defense was a wall, I don't see how you can dispute that.

[WhiskeyBreath]

The 2001-2004 Patriots DID field what many consider one of the best defensive units in NFL

 

:what:

[Emmz]

:what:

 

They were 1 or 2 in total defense for most of 2001-2007, 2003 they had 3 1st team all-pros in that season, along with 3 others who were 1st team all-pro in previous seasons. They were 1st in total every defensive statistic, and went 14-2 while only averaging 22 ppg.

[redsoxrules]

The defense from the championship years werent close to being "the best". They were good. They were a little better than middle of the pack.

 

You said they had hall of famers on defense.....WHO!!!!!???????

 

The ONLY hall of famers they had were maybe Ty Law and Rodney Harrison. Those teams gave up a ton of yards. They just didn't allow the other teams to score TD's.

 

Its amazing that people believe Moss was the end all of greatest WR's to ever play the game and that just because hes gone we are f***ed.....disregarding the fact we still have the BEST QB in the game.....a QB who won with ******** WR's like David Givens, Bethel Johnson, Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Chad Jackson, and Andre Davis. We won with terrible WR's and essentially zero contribution from Tight Ends. Howd that happen? Moss wasnt around back then and we still managed to put points on the board. Maybe the answer is Tom Brady. Maybe the answer is hes that F'ing good.

 

I look at the trade as an act of desperation for the Vikings. Theyre f***ed. 1-2, a 40 something year old QB and a s***** offensive line. If they dont win this year, they never will and they know it once Favre is gone. This was pure desperation by them. It was pure desperation when they begged for an over the hill QB to return.

 

AND FOR THE LAST TIME......this Patriots team was not going to win the Super Bowl anyway....what did they really lose? They gained ANOTHER draft pick. They are reloading. They have 8 picks in the first 3 rounds next year. I refuse to say they are rebuilding, because they are continuing to win. They are reloading for the next run.

 

best QB in the game ?

not even close

 

aside from 2007 and 2009 , brady has been average or just above average at best .

we'll see just how good he is now that moss is no longer on the team .

[YanksHater213]

He was average at best when he was 9-0 or whatever it was in his first playoff games? He was average at best when he was putting through game winning drive after game winning drive with marginal playmakers as receivers?

 

I could go on, but I would be beating a dead horse. Calling the 2nd best quarterback of the decade "just above average" is just a joke, and you don't deserve to have any football posts you make henceforth seriously.

[boston22407]

best QB in the game ?

not even close

 

aside from 2007 and 2009 , brady has been average or just above average at best .

we'll see just how good he is now that moss is no longer on the team .

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

let me get some of that s*** you just smoked

[boston22407]

According to Charley Casserly of CBS, Randy Moss and Tom Brady had to be separated in the locker room recently after getting into a heated argument.

The real impetus for the Patriots' surprising willingness to deal Moss? Brady reportedly told Moss to cut his beard, at which point Moss told Brady to cut his hair because he looks like a girl. If the story is true, it's hard to blame Moss for telling Brady to essentially mind his own business. The Pats had no choice but to side with their franchise QB, though, to keep peace in the locker room.

[a700hitter]

According to Charley Casserly of CBS, Randy Moss and Tom Brady had to be separated in the locker room recently after getting into a heated argument.

The real impetus for the Patriots' surprising willingness to deal Moss? Brady reportedly told Moss to cut his beard, at which point Moss told Brady to cut his hair because he looks like a girl. If the story is true, it's hard to blame Moss for telling Brady to essentially mind his own business. The Pats had no choice but to side with their franchise QB, though, to keep peace in the locker room.

Brady does look like a twit with that haircut. The team should have an intervention with him about that. It's embarrassing.

[Keeper]

He does look like a sissy now.

[SCM33]

best QB in the game ?

not even close

 

aside from 2007 and 2009 , brady has been average or just above average at best .

we'll see just how good he is now that moss is no longer on the team .

 

Average?

 

Really?

[redsoxrules]

He was average at best when he was 9-0 or whatever it was in his first playoff games? He was average at best when he was putting through game winning drive after game winning drive with marginal playmakers as receivers?

 

I could go on, but I would be beating a dead horse. Calling the 2nd best quarterback of the decade "just above average" is just a joke, and you don't deserve to have any football posts you make henceforth seriously.

 

 

so the pats won their first SB because of the passing of Brady ?

a whole 575 yards passing with 1 f***ing TD pass in the 3 post season game ? I dont f***ing think so

the Pats won their first SB thanks to their defense and the leg of Vinaterri

 

and dont get me started on the tuck rule in that game VS the Raiders

 

did you know that Brady ranks 183 of 219 in YPA lifetime ?( yards per pass attempts )

Brady is a short pass QB thrower .

Brady throws a shorter pass, on average than 95 percent of the QB's who ever played the game

 

aside from when he's had moss , he cant throw the ball downfield when he needs to .

always plays the safe short pass so he dosent make a mistake .

in the early years he'd get stopped short and Vinaterri had to bail him out .

that s*** wont fly anymore now that the defense is not what it used to be .

 

look at how Matt cassel did in 2008 compared to what he's doing now

now that moss is gone Brady will be back to average as he was prior to 2007 in witch he had never threw for 30 TD in a season and had ONLY 1 year with over 4000 yards passing

 

 

 

Brady gets all of his credit for the 3 SB wins period .

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

This thread is starting to get good.

 

Grabs popcorn*