The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Will617]

One player doesn't make a team an automatic contender' date=' no matter how good he is, not even Pujols, and that is specially true if said team has more question marks (specially in the pitching department) than Lady Gaga's gender.[/quote']

 

This. See A-Rod and the Rangers.

 

I don't think Mauer's contract would be a benchmark for the market for V-Mart, just as Howard's is probably not indicative of the market for power hitting first basemen. V-Mart is a substantial injury risk, the fact that he probably won't be catching in 3 years means that teams would be paying for a 1B at that point. Mauer had never displayed as much power as he did last year; in terms of wOBA, he went between .350 and .400 for his career, which is fairly similar to Posada and Martinez. However, I think Mauer's contract was part overpaying, part due to his superior defense, and partly due to his age. I think that Posada is definitely a better comp to Martinez than Mauer is, and I think that anyone would be crazy to give V-Mart 5 years and more than 12 million.

[Palodios]

This. See A-Rod and the Rangers.

 

I don't think Mauer's contract would be a benchmark for the market for V-Mart, just as Howard's is probably not indicative of the market for power hitting first basemen.

 

Batting champions make big money. Batting champions at incredibly weak positions make huge money. A 3x batting champion, 1x mvp, 2x gold glove winner who very possibly could end up being the best catcher ever (aka, the weakest offensive position in the game).... well, they make the kind of money that Mauer makes. Of all the tools Mauer has... Vmart does not have them.

 

And you didn't back up your other point-- Why is Howard not an indication for power hitting first basemen?

[example1]

I think Howard is a pretty good example of the upcoming contracts we will see for power hitting first basemen in the 2011 class. There are easy arguments for Adrian Gonzalez and Prince Fielder being more valuable players than Ryan Howard.

[BSN07]

I think Howard is a pretty good example of the upcoming contracts we will see for power hitting first basemen in the 2011 class. There are easy arguments for Adrian Gonzalez and Prince Fielder being more valuable players than Ryan Howard.

 

I read somewhere Prince has already turned down a 5 year 100M offer from the Brewers. I think it's safe to say it's going to take more the Howard's deal to get him inked. I think all of them will get 20-25M per for 5+ years. The only player I could see breaking 25M is Pujols.

[Dojji]

This is why teams need to show a little discipline and not overpay for a favorite talent. This is getting abjectly ridiculous.

[Northern Star]

This is why teams need to show a little discipline and not overpay for a favorite talent. This is getting abjectly ridiculous.

 

Agreed. When is the bubble going to burst?

[Palodios]

I think that if Fielder/Pujols/Agon leave their respective teams, they will lose a considerable amount of fans. If Howard left, I don't think it would have been the end of the world in Philly. No more World Series runs, but still pretty damn good team.

[Virgil Stallcup]

This is why teams need to show a little discipline and not overpay for a favorite talent. This is getting abjectly ridiculous.

 

The moment a few of them (outside the usual small-market suspects) do that, the Union will cry collusion.

 

I'd love to see some backbone from the owners. But it has been some time since I've seen evidence for the existence of such a vital element when it comes to this sort of thing.

[Will617]

Batting champions make big money. Batting champions at incredibly weak positions make huge money. A 3x batting champion, 1x mvp, 2x gold glove winner who very possibly could end up being the best catcher ever (aka, the weakest offensive position in the game).... well, they make the kind of money that Mauer makes. Of all the tools Mauer has... Vmart does not have them.

 

And you didn't back up your other point-- Why is Howard not an indication for power hitting first basemen?

 

Mauer didn't hit for as much power as Vmart and Posada do. The power numbers of his MVP season were definitely an aberration. His numbers are not similar to VMart and Posada's, his price tag is higher because of youth, defense, and probably partly because of his monster MVP season. He's probably the best catcher in the game now, but IMO he's overpaid and won't be the best catcher ever (see Pudge Rodriguez).

Howard is badly overpaid. I guess, now that I think about it, his contract would actually be similar to A-Gon and Fielder's, but if Fielder were 5 years older than he is now then he shouldn't be getting the same contract that Howard got.

[Dojji]

Mauer didn't hit for as much power as Vmart and Posada do.

 

Depends on how you look at power. What Mauer lacks in raw muscle he more than makes up for in consistency and gap to gap ability. As a slugger he's actually comparable in XBH and SLG, the only difference is a relative lack of homers. And it's not precisely as if Posada or V-Mart hit 25 home runs more often than they didn't, either. On the whole the MASSIVE difference in OBP MORE than exceeds the relatively small difference in relative power.

[Will617]

Mauer's wOBA (.382) is pretty close to VMart's (.360) and Posada's (.369). V-Mart suffered his two lowest wOBA marks in injury shortened seasons, so it's possible his mark could have been higher in healthy years. Overall, Mauer's power (.154 ISO career) is definitely not close to V-Mart's (.170) and Posada's (.203). So overall, Mauer is better offensively, but not by a whole lot. Most of that price tag is for defense and youth. If you think that's worth about $8 million extra, then I guess you would think that Mauer's worth his contract. I don't think that Mauer's contract would be indicative of the market.

[BSN07]

The Royals boast baseball's best farm system, deep with impact bats and power arms, but the timetable for those prospects might not match up with their best player, starter Zack Greinke. Because of that, ESPN's Buster Olney reports (Insider req'd) that the team intends to listen to "any and all" offers for the righthander, who has two years and $27MM left on his contract before free agency.

 

If the Sox move Dice-K, I would hope they would attempt to land Grienke.

[soxfan74]

If the Sox move Dice-K' date=' I would hope they would attempt to land Grienke.[/quote']

 

Kansas City is supposed to be listening. That would be the way to go. Obviously would have to probably give up Kelly. Greinke is young enough so it would be worth it.

[BSN07]

Kansas City is supposed to be listening. That would be the way to go. Obviously would have to probably give up Kelly. Greinke is young enough so it would be worth it.

 

Yes it's probably going to be fairly expensive prospect wise. Good thing is though that the Royals are going to want talent that is a couple years away. And the Sox have plenty of that.

 

Lester

Buchholz

Grienke

Beckett

Lackey

 

Drool...

[Dipre]

Replace an expensive, massive headcase for another expensive, massive headcase who is twice as likely to break down under the pressure of a city like Boston.

[ORS]

Replace an expensive' date=' massive headcase for another expensive, massive headcase who is twice as likely to break down under the pressure of a city like Boston.[/quote']

While some of that may be true, although general assumptions about makeup (ie "headcase" comments) are fairly self-serving, Greinke has better stuff during soft-toss warmup than the 8-pitch wonder does.

[a700hitter]

Replace an expensive' date=' massive headcase for another expensive, massive headcase who is twice as likely to break down under the pressure of a city like Boston.[/quote']Was he diagnosed with anything other than an anxiety disorder? I'm not a medical professional, but that is probably one of the more manageable conditions. Bi-polar disease and schizophrenia are recurring conditions. Votto had a depression/anxiety condition last season, and I would take him on my team any day. Greinke has great stuff. Dice K's stuff is questionable as is the health of his shoulder. Also, Dice K is not a head case as much as he is a pampered prima dona.

[jacksonianmarch]

Greinke has social anxiety disorder and agoraphobia. He has trouble with crowds, he has trouble with open spaces and he has severe anxiety. He already said that New York and Boston might not be good for him

[a700hitter]

Greinke has social anxiety disorder and agoraphobia. He has trouble with crowds' date=' he has trouble with open spaces and he has severe anxiety. He already said that New York and Boston might not be good for him[/quote']We'll ask the crowd to be quiet on the days he pitches just like it is when Dice K pitches the bases loaded every inning.

[jacksonianmarch]

To be honest with you, ANY change of scenery from KC would be a major concern. Think about it, his anxiety in KC crippled a yr for him. Imagine how it would be in Boston. He could theoretically "hide" in NYC, but in Boston, he'd be the center of attention and there is nowhere to hide. Boston, IMO, would be his worst nightmare, followed closely by NY

[a700hitter]

To be honest with you' date=' ANY change of scenery from KC would be a major concern. Think about it, his anxiety in KC crippled a yr for him. Imagine how it would be in Boston. He could theoretically "hide" in NYC, but in Boston, he'd be the center of attention and there is nowhere to hide. Boston, IMO, would be his worst nightmare, followed closely by NY[/quote']I'd let him pitch drunk. He'd still be better than Dice K.

[Keeper]

Greinke in a big market has disaster written all over it. I wouldn't even entertain thoughts of trying to acquire him.

[Spudboy]

Greinke in a big market has disaster written all over it. I wouldn't even entertain thoughts of trying to acquire him.

 

It would have Piersall written all over it.

[a700hitter]

It would have Piersall written all over it.

Piersall's Red Sox career wasn't half bad.

[BSN07]

To be honest with you' date=' ANY change of scenery from KC would be a major concern. Think about it, his anxiety in KC crippled a yr for him. Imagine how it would be in Boston. He could theoretically "hide" in NYC, but in Boston, he'd be the center of attention and there is nowhere to hide. Boston, IMO, would be his worst nightmare, followed closely by NY[/quote']

 

Why would he be the center of attention? No one would expect him to be the Ace. He be # 4 or #5. NY he's probably #2. Or is it because there is less people in the stands at NYS and that's how he could "hide"?

[jacksonianmarch]

It's all about the city. It's pretty easy to hide in NYC since it is humongous. In Boston, the fans are a little bit crazier and it is smaller, hence less places to "hide".

[Spudboy]

Piersall's Red Sox career wasn't half bad.

 

True.

[arbitrary]

Given his disorder I'm sure he's perfected the art of hiding/avoidance.

[Spudboy]

Given his disorder I'm sure he's perfected the art of hiding/avoidance.

 

It doesn't work that way. The fact that he's been able to achieve success in MLB is remarkable. Joking about it shows bad taste and ignorance.

[ORS]

It doesn't work that way. The fact that he's been able to achieve success in MLB is remarkable. Joking about it shows bad taste and ignorance.

So does assuming the severity of it in regards to his ability to play baseball in Boston.

 

Let the head shrinkers worry about his condition in Boston. As far as talent goes, I want him here.