The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[italstallianion]

Ditto!

 

I'd like to see two of the mid-relief guys that you mentioned. Fuentes seems like a good fit.

 

Downs, I'd like him too. But he may command too much in terms of AAV and duration.

 

And why does everyone have a hard-on for Martin? Where exactly would he fit in?

 

I understand that people are skeptical of Salty. But carrying three catchers is insane.

 

Keep in mind that Salty is out of options (I think), and that Veritek is not likely to accept a Minor league contract.

 

 

 

To expand a bit, Downs might not cost as much money because he's a type A, and teams have to give up a high draft pick to get him, so that hurts his leverage (look at Saito for example, while he was a high FA, in his contract with us, we could not offer him arbitration, so the Braves did not give up a draft pick for signing him, which allowed him to get more money. So I think that Down's AAV might not be as high as one thinks, although I do think he'll get the years, which quite frankly, I'm ok with giving to him because of his consistency and AL East experience.

 

As for Russell Martin, I'm also confused about the hype. This guy was the man a few years ago, but has seen declines in most numbers for his career. He's still young, but he's not the .290/.375/.470/.850 with 20 HR's and 20 SB's machine that he was in 2007. He's still reasonably young (27) but for the past 2 years he's hit about .250. His one saving grace in my opinion is that he is a career .294/.405/.444/.849 against lefties.

 

However, even looking further into that, he only hit .235/.353/.329/.682 against lefties last year, and .275/.413/.343/.756 in 2009. His power is down, his speed is down, pretty much everything is down. I'd rather have had Miguel Olivo than Russell Martin, especially because he signed for 2 years $7 million.

[Meh]

Any word of what Martin is looking for?

 

he wanted 4.5mill with 2 to 3 mill in incentives from the dodgers while trying to work out a deal. I'd assume since he has the Yankees-Red Sox bidding for him he'd want something like 2/10 with 5 mill in incentives.

[bsox0407]

Ditto!

 

I'd like to see two of the mid-relief guys that you mentioned. Fuentes seems like a good fit.

 

Downs, I'd like him too. But he may command too much in terms of AAV and duration.

 

And why does everyone have a hard-on for Martin? Where exactly would he fit in?

 

I understand that people are skeptical of Salty. But carrying three catchers is insane.

 

Keep in mind that Salty is out of options (I think), and that Veritek is not likely to accept a Minor league contract.

 

Salty can be sent to minors. Even though he is out of options if he is still screwed up with his thowing he wont go anyway/

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

We're not signing Martin to be 'the man', we'd be signing him because he gets on base. The Red Sox like to take chances on guys coming off big injuries, they've shown that quite a few times. This would be worth the risk, since catcher is definitely our shakiest spot right now.

[Spudboy]

Good on-base hitter, and catcher's our weak spot at the moment.

 

 

 

...oh well.

 

OK.

 

So Martin is such an obvious talent and is non-tendered. Why have the Sox agreed to terms with Tek and why have they not signed Martin?

 

And do you see the Sox reneging on their offer to Tek?

[Will617]

To expand a bit' date=' Downs might not cost as much money because he's a type A, and teams have to give up a high draft pick to get him, so that hurts his leverage (look at Saito for example, while he was a high FA, in his contract with us, we could not offer him arbitration, so the Braves did not give up a draft pick for signing him, which allowed him to get more money. So I think that Down's AAV might not be as high as one thinks, although I do think he'll get the years, which quite frankly, I'm ok with giving to him because of his consistency and AL East experience. [/quote']

 

Plus, Downs will not cost the Sox a first rounder after we signed Crawford.

[Will617]

OK.

 

So Martin is such an obvious talent and is non-tendered. Why have the Sox agreed to terms with Tek and why have they not signed Martin?

 

And do you see the Sox reneging on their offer to Tek?

 

The Sox wanted to know if Martin would be willing to play 3B and LF, in a sort of weird utility role (now offering even more positions than Bill Hall!) Given that they're pursuing him pretty hard, I'd guess that he must be willing. Given the unproven qualities of Salty, and Varitek's increasing age/injuries and declining defense, I feel like this is a deal the Sox have to make.

[italstallianion]

We're not signing Martin to be 'the man'' date=' we'd be signing him because he gets on base. The Red Sox like to take chances on guys coming off big injuries, they've shown that quite a few times. This would be worth the risk, since catcher is definitely our shakiest spot right now.[/quote']

 

 

I generally agree with that, I know that the Red Sox aren't blind enough to assume that Russell Martin will play like 2007, and it may be worth the risk, I'm just saying that this move better not be INSTEAD of getting a few good relievers for the bullpen. I'm not saying that the Red Sox shouldn't get Russell Martin, just that it can't come at the expense of what the team needs more, and that's bullpen help. If we get Martin as well as Downs/Fuentes and Guerrier/Crain/Soriano or some combination like that, then I'm happier than Dipre chasing a bunch of overweight white women.

[BSN07]

OK.

 

So Martin is such an obvious talent and is non-tendered. Why have the Sox agreed to terms with Tek and why have they not signed Martin?

 

And do you see the Sox reneging on their offer to Tek?

 

They can keep all three on the roster. The Sox play 6 games a week at least. Each get 2 games, Russell gets one at 3B a week. This may not work all season, but in the beginning with Tek's age, Martin's health, and Salty's defensive issues, it be a good rotation. It be even better if Martin can handle 5th OF duties. Not sure on that thought. Once they get into the season maybe one becomes available via trade. Or DFA'd? None of them are making massive amounts of money.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

OK.

 

So Martin is such an obvious talent and is non-tendered. Why have the Sox agreed to terms with Tek and why have they not signed Martin?

 

He's non-tendered because of the injury concerns. When healthy, Martin gets on base. This is a good talent to have, history would indicate. The Sox don't have any rock solid catcher options at the moment, so why not roll the dice on Martin?

 

They kept Tek so if they are left holding a bag with the catcher situation, they're not in too deep of trouble there. Tek isn't too good anymore, but at the very least the pitchers are comfortable with him behind the plate and he would have an air of familiarity (would probably count for something in the clubhouse).

[italstallianion]

The Sox wanted to know if Martin would be willing to play 3B and LF' date=' in a sort of weird utility role (now offering even more positions than Bill Hall!) Given that they're pursuing him pretty hard, I'd guess that he must be willing. Given the unproven qualities of Salty, and Varitek's increasing age/injuries and declining defense, I feel like this is a deal the Sox have to make.[/quote']

 

 

I just think that they could have tried this sooner and not given Varitek $2 million before they worked this out, and then get Varitek after this attempt fails.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

They can keep all three on the roster. The Sox play 6 games a week at least. Each get 2 games' date=' Russell gets one at 3B a week. This may not work all season, but in the beginning with Tek's age, Martin's health, and Salty's defensive issues, it be a good rotation. It be even better if Martin can handle 5th OF duties. Not sure on that thought. Once they get into the season maybe one becomes available via trade. Or DFA'd? None of them are making massive amounts of money.[/quote']

This is a good point as well, I've never actually thought of Martin as anything but a catcher option.

[BSN07]

I just think that they could have tried this sooner and not given Varitek $2 million before they worked this out' date=' and then get Varitek after this attempt fails.[/quote']

 

Varitek and the Red Sox agreement was in place prior to Martin getting Non-Tendered.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Varitek and the Red Sox agreement was in place prior to Martin getting Non-Tendered.

Same day, Tek's deal was probably agreed to before they knew about Martin.

[Spudboy]

Salty can be sent to minors. Even though he is out of options if he is still screwed up with his thowing he wont go anyway/

 

So you see Salty clearing waivers?

 

It's possible. And the Sox could draw him back if some team claimed him.

 

But why? None of it would make sense given what we know to this point.

[BSN07]

Same day' date=' Tek's deal was probably agreed to before they knew about Martin.[/quote']

 

I know there where talks of a Martin trade prior to the Tek agreement. But I'm pretty sure Tek agreed before Martin became a FA. Even if was the same day. The Martin non-tender was still a bit of a surprise at the time.

[bsox0407]

Baseball Reference.

1 CF Jacoby Ellsbury (0.339/0.395)

2 2B Dustin Pedroia (0.372/0.475)

3 LF Carl Crawford (0.349/0.454)

4 1B Adrian Gonzalez (0.387/0.523)

5 3B Kevin Youkilis (0.404/0.560)

6 DH David Ortiz (0.356/0.498)

7 RF J.D. Drew (0.379/0.495)

8 C Jarrod Saltalamacchia (0.317/0.364)

9 SS Marco Scutaro (0.351/0.385)

 

...would be expected to score 5.675 RPG.

 

The simulator also suggested the best Red Sox lineup for 2011 would be:

 

1 RF J.D. Drew (0.379/0.495)

2 3B Kevin Youkilis (0.404/0.560)

3 DH David Ortiz (0.356/0.498)

4 1B Adrian Gonzalez (0.387/0.523)

5 2B Dustin Pedroia (0.372/0.475)

6 C Jarrod Saltalamacchia (0.317/0.364)

7 CF Jacoby Ellsbury (0.339/0.395)

8 LF Carl Crawford (0.349/0.454)

9 SS Marco Scutaro (0.351/0.385)

 

Which would expect to score 5.754 RPG.

[bsox0407]

So you see Salty clearing waivers?

 

It's possible. And the Sox could draw him back if some team claimed him.

 

But why? None of it would make sense given what we know to this point.

 

We figure that Tek will retire after this year. Wagner isnt ready. So i think if we get martin we have tek for a year as back up then Salty. If he doesnt go crazy. Then If that happens we have Wagner.

[Spudboy]

We're not signing Martin to be 'the man'' date=' we'd be signing him because he gets on base. The Red Sox like to take chances on guys coming off big injuries, they've shown that quite a few times. This would be worth the risk, since catcher is definitely our shakiest spot right now.[/quote']

 

I understand what you are saying. But what do the Sox need 3 MLB catchers for?

[a700hitter]

If Theo was able to pull off Jose Reyes + Russell Martin + reliever (Guerrier?)' date=' holy f***ing s***.[/quote']Are there any Jose Reyes to the Sox rumors floating around. That would be great.

[italstallianion]

I understand what you are saying. But what do the Sox need 3 MLB catchers for?

 

 

I'd look at it as "3 people who can catch" rather than 3 catchers. I'd imagine that Salty and Martin could play 1st (only if needed) and that Martin could play 3rd base. In addition, Varitek and Martin could really hit LHP's and Varitek is known for having hot starts and ice cold finishes, so maybe we can start Varitek for the first month or two and then retire him. It might be a bit to help us against lefties by allowing us to play Pedroia, Youk, Scutaro/Lowrie, Varitek, Martin, and Gonzalez as a lefty that can hit lefties.

[Spudboy]

The Sox wanted to know if Martin would be willing to play 3B and LF' date=' in a sort of weird utility role (now offering even more positions than Bill Hall!) Given that they're pursuing him pretty hard, I'd guess that he must be willing. Given the unproven qualities of Salty, and Varitek's increasing age/injuries and declining defense, I feel like this is a deal the Sox have to make.[/quote']

 

Really? Martin has played (from what I've heard) about 600 games. Only 12 of them not as a catcher. How does he translate to a utility player? Especially with a questionable hip moving to positions that require greater mobility?

[BSN07]

I get 5.62 with Scuataro and Martin and 5.64 if you replace Lowrie for Scutaro with the line ups I suggested earlier.

 

The top scoring lineup with martin in the lineup was 5.859

[Will617]

Really? Martin has played (from what I've heard) about 600 games. Only 12 of them not as a catcher. How does he translate to a utility player? Especially with a questionable hip moving to positions that require greater mobility?

 

Idk. He used to have very good mobility for a catcher. Theo and the Sox medical staff have seen the medical results, I haven't. If they're right, then I think this is an ideal signing. If they're wrong, well...worse things have happened than carrying 3 catchers.

[italstallianion]

I could use the Baseball Reference feature to help build my fantasy team. Haha.

 

Is there a link for the feature?

[BSN07]

Are there any Jose Reyes to the Sox rumors floating around. That would be great.

 

I don't anticipate anymore large expenditures this off season. And Reyes at 11M is. Considering the talent you would have to send NY's way, and is it only a one year rental or do they risk extending him? Reyes is a great player when healthy. No question. But can he stay health consistently? Or is he ok with sitting a few times a week for Lowrie to help keep him fit? Reyes would be a great addition. But I think there is a lot more to it then just adding him. Not even sure if the Sox have that much left to spend, considering they need BP help.

 

I would like to hear they are involved with the Marlins for Nunez.

[BSN07]

I could use the Baseball Reference feature to help build my fantasy team. Haha.

 

Is there a link for the feature?

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py

[Spudboy]

They can keep all three on the roster. The Sox play 6 games a week at least. Each get 2 games' date=' Russell gets one at 3B a week. This may not work all season, but in the beginning with Tek's age, Martin's health, and Salty's defensive issues, it be a good rotation. It be even better if Martin can handle 5th OF duties. Not sure on that thought. Once they get into the season maybe one becomes available via trade. Or DFA'd? None of them are making massive amounts of money.[/quote']

 

I just don't see the Sox carrying three catchers.

 

What part of the 25 man roster would you suggest sacrificing to do this?

 

Will the Sox go with 11 pitchers and 14 positional players?

[BigPapiEnFuego]

According to Gordon Edes the Red Sox have made an offer to Russell Martin

[sheffieldcelt]

The time has come gentlemen

 

It time to start betting on boston to win ALE, AL and WS

 

 

 

Excellent squad once addition or 2 to the bullpen

 

 

Can't wait ti get hold of the yankee's