The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[SoxSport]

I think the Sox are in on both Martin and Crawford--age under 30 probably being a factor.

 

Watching Jeter on MLB.com, Steinbrenner's abrasive comments did not go well with him. Can't blame him for what he's done in NY. You can see how Hank's father rubbed a few people the wrong way.

 

Tito just came on again with Millar. Tito would look good in a Santa Claus outfit. You can see why the players like him. Just one of the guys.

[a700hitter]

Ryan Ludwick Drawing Trade Interest

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 7 at 10:46pm CST]

 

Ryan Ludwick is generating trade interest, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The Red Sox, Tigers, Orioles and Dodgers are among the teams that have checked in, according to the reporters. At this point - just 48 hours after trading Adrian Gonzalez - the Padres seem reluctant to part with Ludwick.

Ludwick? Yuk.

[a700hitter]

Red Sox Considering Carlos Beltran

By Tim Dierkes [December 7 at 10:49pm CST]

 

10:49pm: The Mets and Red Sox met to discuss Beltran tonight, according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (on Twitter).

[italstallianion]

Did I miss something?

[example1]

Beltran would be a smart move for the right pieces. They could even take on a good chunk of his salary. I like that he would be a FA after next season too. Increased flexability is a good thing and I love avoiding that Crawford contract with a switch hitter who has consistently put up more productive seasons. He's older and less-likely to get to his peak again, but even mediocre Beltran is 3-4 WAR.

[jacksonianmarch]

Thought it was interesting the little bit about Varitek not officially being signed yet. Could you imagine if they signed Martin and basically told Varitek his services wouldn't be needed anymore after supposedly agreeing to a deal for the next year? Doubt it would happen' date=' but don't see why we would have 3 catchers on the roster either.[/quote']

 

There are plenty of hot stove deals that take a week plus to finalize due to physicals and secondary stuff. They agreed with Vtek, if they go back on their word with on of their icons, it would be damaging from a negotiating standpoint

[BSN07]

Excellent. Things are starting to look up in recent weeks. I don't talk all that much about the Giants (except I did today briefly) in the catch-all NFL Thread because there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest' date=' but I also didn't know there were other Giants fans on the site lol.[/quote']

 

Go to TalkPats.com. On Sundays there is a lot of activity and good conversation on all teams, not just the Pats. During the week it can be a little slow there. But if we can get some new blood in there, especially some more non Pats fans it could really get going. I thought the site wasn't going to make it to this season, but we have some new members and it's hanging in there now

[The Celtbot]

There are plenty of hot stove deals that take a week plus to finalize due to physicals and secondary stuff. They agreed with Vtek' date=' if they go back on their word with on of their icons, it would be damaging from a negotiating standpoint[/quote']

 

I agree with you, yet they are still showing interest in a 3rd catcher. Unless they plan on using Varitek in a trade or putting Salty in the minors to start the year.

[BSN07]

I agree with you' date=' yet they are still showing interest in a 3rd catcher. Unless they plan on using Varitek in a trade or putting Salty in the minors to start the year.[/quote']

 

They can carry all 3 if need be. Martin may not be 100% at the start and may need time. Once he gets back he can catch a couple times a week and maybe play 3B once or twice a week. They could also try and sneak Salty through waivers and get him to AAA(Ideal, I like Salty, like to see him have consistent playing time for his development, that's best done in AAA). Or they could hold onto all three and hope to deal one later on.

 

(If they carry all 3)

 

Starters

C- Salty

1B- Agon

2B- Pedroia

SS- Scutaro

3B- Youk

LF-*

CF- Ellsbury

RF- Drew

DH- Ortiz

 

Bench

 

Lowrie(Utility)

Cameron(4th OF/DH)

Martin(C/3B/1B/5th OF?)

Tek(C/Coach)

 

 

SP

 

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Lackey

Dice-K

 

BP

Pap

Bard

Wake

Doubront

*

*

 

And the last spot can be another BP arm or Bench player, from the looks of it as constituted, a LHH might be the best addition for the bench. So it is possible to do and still have a good bench.

 

Do most teams keep 11 or 12 pitchers normally on the roster?

[BSN07]

Ludwick? Yuk.

 

He would be an ok option for LF next season.

 

He may not put up 2008 number, but he will probably enjoy a nice spike in offense like most RHH do playing at Fenway.

[Palodios]

I have no desire to see this team deal with Hoyer again. We did what we needed to do, but going back to him is going to be very expensive because Hoyer knows he'll lose face if he trades two of his best hitters to his old team.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ludwick is a guy I'd hold onto if I were Hoyer. That team is completely devoid of power right now with Ludwick being the only offensive threat on the team. If he deals Ludwick, then the Pads would be in full out rebuild mode, which wouldnt look good one year after the team missed the playoffs on the last day of the season

[Dojji]

Padres announced that they were in rebuild mode when they dealt Gonzales. The only question is whether they tank or bridge. I hate tanking, so I hope they keep Ludwick and look for other veterans to bridge.

[Interestedobserver]

Saw this message on another board about Beltran

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Red Sox are looking for an outfielder and continue to talk to the Mets about OF Carlos Beltran

 

“The relationship between Beltran and the Mets is not great,” Gammons said. “He’s not going to play in the outfield for 150 games, and there are still hard feelings between Ownership and Scott Boras because of the operation Beltran had a year ago.”

 

Gammons believes the Mets would like to move Beltran and roughly $10 million to help free up money that can be used to acquire pitching.

 

According to Gammons, the Mets expressed interest in Red Sox SS Marco Scutaro and RHP Daisuke Matsuza, but, he says, “I don’t think the Red Sox will do that.”

 

Nevertheless, Gammons does think it is a possibility that Beltran would accept a deal to Boston, where he would play left field and get to DH against left-handed pitching.

 

Now I think it makes sense for both teams for Beltran to go to the Red Sox. However, very little after that of what Gammons said has any coherence.

 

The Mets want to dump Beltran because the relationship has soured and with Beltran's knees, he's better off where he can DH part time. Beltran has no real trade value at his salary. If the Mets trade him they're looking at a salary dump. They're not looking to eat salary or to take back Scutaro or Dice K.

 

If the Mets do eat salary, which they probably have to do, they'd be looking for real talent back. Probably in the form of a couple of decent prospects. The more salary they eat, the better the prospects.

[Palodios]

So... the Mets want the Sox to take off a crap contract, and give them prospects? Sounds like a good deal to me.

[a700hitter]

Russell Martin Rumors: Wednesday

By Tim Dierkes [December 8 at 9:23am CST]

 

Recently non-tendered catcher Russell Martin is drawing plenty of interest on the open market; here's the latest. He's recovering from a hip fracture, but teams have already examined his medical records.

 

* The Dodgers' final offer to Martin was $4.2MM plus $1.5-1.7MM in incentives based on games played, reports Yahoo's Steve Henson. Henson says letting Martin go was a gut-wrenching decision for GM Ned Colletti. Will he match the amount he turned down from the Dodgers?

* Teams are now making offers to Martin's agent Matt Colleran, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney, and the Yankees and Red Sox are in the center of the mix. Gordon Edes' source says the Red Sox are making a strong push.

[a700hitter]

Reminder to the FO:

 

Sign Carl Crawford!!!

 

A lineup with Crawford and AGon would be all kinds of awesome. As for aging speedsters, Rickey Henderson stayed really good for a long time.

[Dojji]

Good. I would love to pick Martin up. He's got a very rare combination of talents for a catcher. If he can get healthy he could turn into an incredible asset, even if the injury does take his baserunning down a notch. As long as it doesn't affect his pop time once he comes back we're good.

[Interestedobserver]

So... the Mets want the Sox to take off a crap contract' date=' and give them prospects? Sounds like a good deal to me.[/quote']

 

That's not what I said. I said if the Mets send Beltran to Boston, they're looking for salary relief. They don't want bad contracts back. If the Mets pay part of Beltran's salary, then it isn't a bad contract. The more they pay, the better prospects they get in return.

 

ie, for no salary relief, Boston sends back a couple of low a guys who can run fast. As the Mets take on more salary, Boston sends back guys who can actually play.

[Palodios]

This team has roughly 30 million left to spend. Olivo is starting to make more and more sense as the Yankees seem primed to get Crawford-- getting an elite arm at C is much more important than ten stolen bases.

[Palodios]

That's not what I said. I said if the Mets send Beltran to Boston, they're looking for salary relief. They don't want bad contracts back. If the Mets pay part of Beltran's salary, then it isn't a bad contract. The more they pay, the better prospects they get in return.

 

ie, for no salary relief, Boston sends back a couple of low a guys who can run fast. As the Mets take on more salary, Boston sends back guys who can actually play.

 

That means the same thing. Either the Sox pay a lot in talent, or a lot in money-- or a moderate amount in both. Ordonez seems like a better option.

[Interestedobserver]

I don't think the Mets are interested in paying Beltran to play for the Red Sox.

[BSN07]

Reminder to the FO:

 

Sign Carl Crawford!!!

 

A lineup with Crawford and AGon would be all kinds of awesome. As for aging speedsters, Rickey Henderson stayed really good for a long time.

 

Ricky Henderson didn't play the on turf. But Vlad and and Andre Dawson did. How where those knees in their 30's?

[SoxSport]

The Red Sox should be in any mix involving the Yankees that makes any sense for them, if only to keep the Yankees from having the whole pie--which they are wont to do. I don't know if the Angels are enough of a buffer. They should be in the mix with Lee, too.

 

Adding Lee would free them up to trade Dice-K, and would have a bigger impact than adding Crawford or anybody else. It would practically guarantee them dominance over the Yankees, who are vulnerable to LHd pitching. Hello Theo. 7 years.

[Mikon]

The Red Sox should be in any mix involving the Yankees that makes any sense for them, if only to keep the Yankees from having the whole pie--which they are wont to do. I don't know if the Angels are enough of a buffer. They should be in the mix with Lee, too.

 

Adding Lee would free them up to trade Dice-K, and would have a bigger impact than adding Crawford or anybody else. It would practically guarantee them dominance over the Yankees, who are vulnerable to LHd pitching. Hello Theo. 7 years.

 

This is just the way I see things: we already have a pretty good lineup for infield and outfield, going after Cliff Lee we solve part of our problems with the bullpen, we cause a major problem for the Yankees and we even have the chance to trade Dasiuke Matsuzaka. It's almost a "win win" situation.

 

And, in fact, this is actually what I'm betting, as Crawford seems unrealistic and is probably the one and only player that would add something to our already well balanced lineup.

[Dipre]

Reminder to the FO:

 

Don't get Carl Crawford.

 

It's not about overpaying for a shiny toy with platoon issues, but setting up a roster that has the chance to win now and in the future.

 

Get Lee and Ordonez instead.

[redsoxrules]

Reminder to the FO:

 

Sign Carl Crawford!!!

 

A lineup with Crawford and AGon would be all kinds of awesome. As for aging speedsters, Rickey Henderson stayed really good for a long time.

 

Carl crawford is miles away from henderson

[Palodios]

Get Lee and Ordonez instead.

 

Weren't we just arguing about salary implications yesterday? If they don't want to spend on Beltran, Ordonez is just as expensive.

[Dipre]

Weren't we just arguing about salary implications yesterday? If they don't want to spend on Beltran' date=' Ordonez is just as expensive.[/quote']

 

Beltran's 2011 salary: 18. 5 million.

 

Ordonez 2011 salary: A whole hell of a lot less than 18.5 million.

 

Not that difficult. Even with the Mets chipping in money Ordonez would come cheaper than him.

 

You were the one arguing to send players and create holes to get Beltran when you can just use less money and get Ordonez. I'm just sayin'.

[Palodios]

I was talking about getting creative-- something this FO has been known to do. Ordonez will cost atleast 10, maybe as much as 12-- the Sox wouldn't pay more than 12 on Beltran-- they'd make the Mets eat atleast 6. How is this any different?