The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Cards are "wrecking their budget". Pujols will retire a Cardinal. They won't let him go after signing Holliday to a 7-year deal mostly to keep Pujols happy.

 

The Cardinals have inflated their salary to keep Pujols happy. They will do whatever it takes.

[Station 13]

The Red Sox release Cash, Brown and Manuel. If V-mart isn't back who catches Wakefield?

 

I'd like Martinez back anyway.

[example1]

Dipre' date=' the market value is a Posada deal. And for some reason, I thought Posada signed for $15 mil a yr. As it turns out, he signed for a little over $13 mil a yr. So, $13 mil is the number. Sorry.[/quote']

 

But definitey, absolutey not the $12m that I proposed... no.

 

I think 12 x 5 would get it done. Sox probably won't do 5, but I wouldn't be totally averse to the idea.

[WhiskeyBreath]

5 years for Martinez? No thanks.

[suns]

Maybe Martinez can come back to where he belongs

[Dipre]

Maybe Martinez can come back to where he belongs

 

Holy s***, can you please not start with this f***ing idiocy again? He's not signing with the Guardians.

[suns]

The thread title is The Official Hot Stove thread...it never said it had to be all about the red sox

[Dipre]

Head hurts. Brb, need Ibuprofen.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

If V-Mart goes to the Guardians I give permission for any mod to ban me forever. Put that in your sig.

[Keeper]

Maybe Martinez can come back to where he belongs

 

You have Carlos Santana now. I'd much rather have him than V-Mart, at this point in their careers.

[ORS]

The thread title is The Official Hot Stove thread...it never said it had to be all about the red sox

It's also in the Red Sox section of the board, meaning it's for the Sox hot-stove. There will be one in the General MLB section later to discuss the offseasons of all the other teams.

 

I'd say quit being stupid, but I'm not sure it's possible in this case.

[ORS]

Dipre' date=' the market value is a Posada deal. And for some reason, I thought Posada signed for $15 mil a yr. As it turns out, he signed for a little over $13 mil a yr. So, $13 mil is the number. Sorry.[/quote']

For player salaries, the Yankees are more like hitting the lottery than they are reflective of the actual market. Whether it be how they "honor" their remnants from the dynasty, or how they make sure they bring in new guys who are exactly what they want, they are frequently well above what the market is.

[soxfan74]

V-Mart is going to get alott of attention this offseason. Detroit just let Laird walk. Colorado has been linked already. Resigning him is not a lock.

[Dipre]

V-Mart is going to get alott of attention this offseason. Detroit just let Laird walk. Colorado has been linked already. Resigning him is not a lock.

 

Do you really think Colorado or Detroit have enough money to hand V-Mart a 3-4 year deal making around 12 mill a year? Doesn't seem like it.

 

The Tigers have a huge amount of Free Agents, need to deal with a number of arbitration cases, and need to shed payroll, trying to keep it around or below 100 million. Doesn't seem like they'll be handing a lot of 12 million dollar contracts.

 

Ditto for the Rockies, who, unless the Tigers, have a decent option in Ianetta.

 

The truth is, there is no excuse for the Red Sox not to bring back V-Mart unless they screw up the negotiations or simply don't want him back that bad. They have more resources than anybody else who may currently looking for a catcher, and the "Home-Field Advantage".

[soxfan74]

Nothing surprises me. I thought that eventually we would resign Jason Bay last season. That didn't happen obviously. I certainly had no idea that John Lackey was on the radar. That deal came from absolutely nowhere to get done. So do I think that resigning Martinez is a lock. Absolutely not.

[Dipre]

The FO had a deal in place with Bay, and pulled it back because of medical concerns, completely different scenario.

 

Nothing is a lock in baseball, but the FO has every possible advantage and the most pressing need (Production at C is hard to come by) to strike a deal with Martinez.

[Keeper]

Do you really think Colorado or Detroit have enough money to hand V-Mart a 3-4 year deal making around 12 mill a year? Doesn't seem like it.

 

The Tigers have a huge amount of Free Agents, need to deal with a number of arbitration cases, and need to shed payroll, trying to keep it around or below 100 million. Doesn't seem like they'll be handing a lot of 12 million dollar contracts.

 

The Tigers will be shedding a ton of payroll. They'll definitely be in the mix.

[Palodios]

Well, if Dipre is right, and they need to be around 100 million, with their 55 million, plus Ordonez and arbitration, they're around 80 million right there. They would be better putting that 20 million to places besides giving a long term deal to a catcher who may or may not be able to play at that position for long term.

[Dipre]

LF *or DH* (Damon), RF (Ordonez), C (Laird), 3B (Inge), SP (Bonderman). 55 million coming off payroll. 1B occupied by a premiere player. Real payroll needs to be right around 100 mill.

 

How do you fit a guy who you should rotate between C, 1b, DH and is probably going to command 12 mill a year into that equation.

 

Lots of holes to fill, not a lot of money. I'll bet dollars to doughuts they fill the position internally/on the cheap with Alex Avila is either starting or in a platoon with a cheap catcher in 2011.

[example1]

Whether or not the Tigers want Martinez, the point stands that he will be coveted this off-season. The Sox will need to sign him before he hits the open market. I would be fine with them doing what it takes to keep him around. He's a plus offensive catcher with position flexability and, as such, is hard to replace.

 

As for Pujols, he should command near A-Rod money, pushing $30m per year. Until he's signed a deal with St. Louis I am fine with the Sox holding their chips just in case.

[Dipre]

Calling it now:

 

If Martinez goes elsewhere, the whining will reach the Heavens, and this time it will be warranted. There is absolutely no excuse for the Sox not to re-sign Martinez unless they have a better option in mind, and Salty is not a better option.

[BSN07]

Whether or not the Tigers want Martinez, the point stands that he will be coveted this off-season. The Sox will need to sign him before he hits the open market. I would be fine with them doing what it takes to keep him around. He's a plus offensive catcher with position flexability and, as such, is hard to replace.

 

As for Pujols, he should command near A-Rod money, pushing $30m per year. Until he's signed a deal with St. Louis I am fine with the Sox holding their chips just in case.

Can't agree more here. Listen last year I would have said Pujols reupping with the Cardinals is a 99.9% possibility. Now I would say it's 85-90%. I believe the chances of hi leaving aren't great but getting bigger the closer it get's. I don't see him signing soon. He's going to have to see what the Cardinals do this offseason. Yes they brought in Holliday. but it was for 2 reasons. 1st and foremost it was to give Albert a running mate and try to keep him happy. 2nd was in case Albert decided to leave, they would have someone to build around. But now with them bombing this season and LaRussa a ?, there seems to be a little more un settled in the St. Louis. Off course this is my opinion of course.

Calling it now:

 

If Martinez goes elsewhere, the whining will reach the Heavens, and this time it will be warranted. There is absolutely no excuse for the Sox not to re-sign Martinez unless they have a better option in mind, and Salty is not a better option.

 

I agree but I wouldn't say there is absolutely no excuse not to bring him back. Yes th Sox should try and sign him before he hits the market. But if he wants to test the waters he's going to. And when he's out there you always have to account for for a desperate GM. If someone is crazy enough to give him 6 years or 16M+ a season or whatever. I would not be mad if the FO didn't beat that offer. I want V-Mart back, but not if it means a deal like that. I'm actually iffy on 5. But not as much because he does have good flexibility in the field.

 

 

 

On a side note about V-Mart. I've been thinking it was kind of odd for the Sox "2 year" proposal got out to the public. For the most part the club is pretty good at keeping these thing internal. "Puts on tinfoil hat", is it possible the Sox leaked the low offer on purpose? Possibly to calm the market on V-Mart. Let's be honest, you look at V-Mart as a standout player in the league at a decent age and the Red Sox only offer 2 years? Maybe they are hoping some GM's may be worried about something the Red Sox know and it keeps them from going to that 5 year plateau on an offer. Then if it's all 4 year offers(which I believe the Sox goal is 3-4 years for him) the Sox can probably match any offer that comes in.

 

No I don't think this is some major coup, but just maybe a little strategic plant. Probably me just being bored and wanting the off season to start

[jacksonianmarch]

Whether or not the Tigers want Martinez, the point stands that he will be coveted this off-season. The Sox will need to sign him before he hits the open market. I would be fine with them doing what it takes to keep him around. He's a plus offensive catcher with position flexability and, as such, is hard to replace.

 

As for Pujols, he should command near A-Rod money, pushing $30m per year. Until he's signed a deal with St. Louis I am fine with the Sox holding their chips just in case.

 

You dont hold your chips for Pujols. You react if Pujols doesnt sign with StL. I definitely think every team in baseball will drop everything to at least toy with the idea of adding the most dangerous hitter of our time. Even the Yanks who have 3b and 1b locked up long term and probably need to keep that DH spot open.

 

The sox have other players that are more realistic to "hold chips for". Kinda like what the Yankees did prior to 2008 when they didnt go out and get Johan and held onto their guys through the season then signed CC and AJ. Cashman's patience has turned into 1 WS and at least 1 ALCS in 3 season, whereas relying on Johan would have turned us into no WS and probably no ALCS in 3 yrs

[Cyril]

With the Sox season now over' date=' it's time to see what will happen in the off season.[/quote']

 

spudy new to all this.Dont know how long the season is or anything about this sport,so i'm looking forward to learning all about it.Been has your season is over now you can follow us;)

[jacksonianmarch]

Can't agree more here. Listen last year I would have said Pujols reupping with the Cardinals is a 99.9% possibility. Now I would say it's 85-90%. I believe the chances of hi leaving aren't great but getting bigger the closer it get's. I don't see him signing soon. He's going to have to see what the Cardinals do this offseason. Yes they brought in Holliday. but it was for 2 reasons. 1st and foremost it was to give Albert a running mate and try to keep him happy. 2nd was in case Albert decided to leave, they would have someone to build around. But now with them bombing this season and LaRussa a ?, there seems to be a little more un settled in the St. Louis. Off course this is my opinion of course.

 

 

I agree but I wouldn't say there is absolutely no excuse not to bring him back. Yes th Sox should try and sign him before he hits the market. But if he wants to test the waters he's going to. And when he's out there you always have to account for for a desperate GM. If someone is crazy enough to give him 6 years or 16M+ a season or whatever. I would not be mad if the FO didn't beat that offer. I want V-Mart back, but not if it means a deal like that. I'm actually iffy on 5. But not as much because he does have good flexibility in the field.

 

 

 

On a side note about V-Mart. I've been thinking it was kind of odd for the Sox "2 year" proposal got out to the public. For the most part the club is pretty good at keeping these thing internal. "Puts on tinfoil hat", is it possible the Sox leaked the low offer on purpose? Possibly to calm the market on V-Mart. Let's be honest, you look at V-Mart as a standout player in the league at a decent age and the Red Sox only offer 2 years? Maybe they are hoping some GM's may be worried about something the Red Sox know and it keeps them from going to that 5 year plateau on an offer. Then if it's all 4 year offers(which I believe the Sox goal is 3-4 years for him) the Sox can probably match any offer that comes in.

 

No I don't think this is some major coup, but just maybe a little strategic plant. Probably me just being bored and wanting the off season to start

 

VMart leaked it IIRC, I remember him answering questions about that pretty honestly a few months back.

 

There is no strategic plant, the sox were just starting negotiations. VMart has now surpassed Posada as the #2 offensive catcher in the game behind Mauer. He is going to get paid like it. And right now, seeing as he is planning on being paid as a catcher, the sox are going to have to dish out cash and yrs to the guy, cause he is gonna get some serious offers. I know most of you guys think the sox dont have any competition here. But just look at the average catcher line for 2010. The average OPS in the bigs out of the catcher position is .699. VMart was in the .850 range and can switch hit. Just because the Yankees are not going to be in the running doesnt mean the sox are locks to retain him. He is in the driver's seat right now in terms of negotiations. He's 31 (not too old), can switch hit, can hit in the middle of the lineup and is the second best offensive catcher in baseball at a position that sees HORRIBLE offensive production.

 

Now there is what is reasonable and what is foolish. If some team that is close thinks that VMart can be the missing piece of the puzzle for the next 3-4 yrs and doesnt mind having an albatross at the backend, might offer him 5-6 yrs. But with catchers on the wrong side of 30, 4 yr deals are appropriate. I think a good offer is what Posada got, at 4yrs $52 mil. BUT, you need to see how the landscape has changed since Posada signed his deal. Joe Mauer also signed a big time contract, and if VMart looks at that contract as a trendsetter for elite offensive production from the C position, then his price just went up.

 

Think about that. Mauer signed for $23 million per yr. That is $9 million per yr more than Posada and now Martinez has surpassed him. Would it be unreasonable, in the mind of VMart to think that he should meet halfway between Posada and Mauer? Maybe in the $18 mil range? Who knows, but the fact is, the sox lose all leverage 15 days after the WS. If they don't re-up him, I have a strong feeling that he gets an offer he cannot refuse

[Palodios]

But there is a chance Pujols may be the Cleveland Lebron of St. Louis. Is one world series really enough for him? Besides Brad Penny, they're not losing much for payroll at all, and with them preparing to extend Pujols next year, I don't see them taking on too many large contracts this season. If they don't make the playoffs next year, who knows.

 

I don't see the Red Sox giving Vmart any more than 3/42, maybe with one or two player options that pop up if he catches a certain number of games. They like him, but buying high on aging catchers is a huge risk.

[soxfan74]

VMart leaked it IIRC, I remember him answering questions about that pretty honestly a few months back.

 

There is no strategic plant, the sox were just starting negotiations. VMart has now surpassed Posada as the #2 offensive catcher in the game behind Mauer. He is going to get paid like it. And right now, seeing as he is planning on being paid as a catcher, the sox are going to have to dish out cash and yrs to the guy, cause he is gonna get some serious offers. I know most of you guys think the sox dont have any competition here. But just look at the average catcher line for 2010. The average OPS in the bigs out of the catcher position is .699. VMart was in the .850 range and can switch hit. Just because the Yankees are not going to be in the running doesnt mean the sox are locks to retain him. He is in the driver's seat right now in terms of negotiations. He's 31 (not too old), can switch hit, can hit in the middle of the lineup and is the second best offensive catcher in baseball at a position that sees HORRIBLE offensive production.

 

Now there is what is reasonable and what is foolish. If some team that is close thinks that VMart can be the missing piece of the puzzle for the next 3-4 yrs and doesnt mind having an albatross at the backend, might offer him 5-6 yrs. But with catchers on the wrong side of 30, 4 yr deals are appropriate. I think a good offer is what Posada got, at 4yrs $52 mil. BUT, you need to see how the landscape has changed since Posada signed his deal. Joe Mauer also signed a big time contract, and if VMart looks at that contract as a trendsetter for elite offensive production from the C position, then his price just went up.

 

Think about that. Mauer signed for $23 million per yr. That is $9 million per yr more than Posada and now Martinez has surpassed him. Would it be unreasonable, in the mind of VMart to think that he should meet halfway between Posada and Mauer? Maybe in the $18 mil range? Who knows, but the fact is, the sox lose all leverage 15 days after the WS. If they don't re-up him, I have a strong feeling that he gets an offer he cannot refuse

 

What exactly makes you think that the Yankees will not be in the running? The Yankees are always in the running. I do believe that you're exactly right about losing leverage. Right now the sox are low balling his offers. Two years was a slap in the face to Martinez. He will hit the open market. I don't think the Sox will resign him. Someone else will go over the top and overpay.

[Dipre]

VMart has now surpassed Posada as the #2 offensive catcher in the game behind Mauer. He is going to get paid like it. And right now, seeing as he is planning on being paid as a catcher, the sox are going to have to dish out cash and yrs to the guy, cause he is gonna get some serious offers. I know most of you guys think the sox dont have any competition here. But just look at the average catcher line for 2010. The average OPS in the bigs out of the catcher position is .699. VMart was in the .850 range and can switch hit. Just because the Yankees are not going to be in the running doesnt mean the sox are locks to retain him. He is in the driver's seat right now in terms of negotiations. He's 31 (not too old), can switch hit, can hit in the middle of the lineup and is the second best offensive catcher in baseball at a position that sees HORRIBLE offensive production.

 

Now there is what is reasonable and what is foolish. If some team that is close thinks that VMart can be the missing piece of the puzzle for the next 3-4 yrs and doesnt mind having an albatross at the backend, might offer him 5-6 yrs. But with catchers on the wrong side of 30, 4 yr deals are appropriate. I think a good offer is what Posada got, at 4yrs $52 mil. BUT, you need to see how the landscape has changed since Posada signed his deal. Joe Mauer also signed a big time contract, and if VMart looks at that contract as a trendsetter for elite offensive production from the C position, then his price just went up.

 

Think about that. Mauer signed for $23 million per yr. That is $9 million per yr more than Posada and now Martinez has surpassed him. Would it be unreasonable, in the mind of VMart to think that he should meet halfway between Posada and Mauer? Maybe in the $18 mil range? Who knows, but the fact is, the sox lose all leverage 15 days after the WS. If they don't re-up him, I have a strong feeling that he gets an offer he cannot refuse

 

I guessed the rest of this post as soon as i read the first line.

 

Funny how now you decide to admit V-Mart's a better hitter than Posada.

 

Anyone got the chart handy?

[BSN07]

Couple things from Cafardo,

 

Nick Cafardo of The Boston Globe spoke to nearly a dozen scouts and executives and found that there would be substantial interest in Daisuke Matsuzaka if the Red Sox made the righthander available in a trade this offseason.

 

As far as teams that could have potential interest in Dice-K, Cafardo names the Mariners, Mets, Dodgers, Brewers, Rangers, and Tigers. Here are the rest of his rumors

 

There's talk that the Red Sox might go after Yu Darvish if he's posted this winter, and there is a little bit of a New England connection there: Darvish's father attended school in the area.

 

Teams in need of a second baseman are very interested in Jed Lowrie, though at least one scout thinks he can stick at shortstop.

[redsoxrules]

Giving V-mart a deal for 12 mil a year is fine if he's the catcher

BUT , if he's only going to catch 100 games then its a bad investment as his value at 1b and dh sucks big time for 12 mil

 

I cant see theo giving V-mart more than a 3 year deal or above 10 MIL