Waiver Wire 2010

[Yaz Sideburn]

beleive what you want ' date=' just wait see in the offseason[/quote']

 

i'm telling you, the yankees are not going to see lee and crawford

[Yaz Sideburn]

the red sox placed beckett, lackey and delcarmen on waivers. it's highly unlikely that they trade or release the first two but they might be able to work out a deal for delcarmen who they are likley to non-tender at the end of the year anyways

[WhiskeyBreath]

i'm telling you' date=' the yankees are not going to see lee and crawford[/quote']

 

And it won't be because they can't afford both.

[Yaz Sideburn]

And it won't be because they can't afford both.

 

can't afford/hal doens't pay to pay that much

 

whatever you call it, it doesn't make financial sense for them

[SCM33]

You ask 5 different guys what we should have done at the deadline' date=' you get 5 different responses. Our needs included a pitcher, power bat, outfielder, catcher, leadoff hitter. How many holes do you think you're going to fill at the deadline? At some point the best plan is just to play through and fix it in the offseason.[/quote']

 

Thats just an excuse. They are not that far out of it. Had they made a single friggin deal.....maybe they are 2 or 3 games out going in to a series against TB instead of 5.

 

Dont make excuses for them. They have 2 legit needs. An OF and bullpen arms. They have been using scrubs all year long and are only 5 games out. Who knows what a small piece could have provided. They are going into a 3 game series against a team who is tied for both the division and wild card lead. You are really telling me that they couldnt have done ANYTHING to make themselves better for a run knowing that they still had 12 games left to play against the teams leading the playoff races?

 

Come on man, how can that not piss you off?

[Dojji]

Thats just an excuse.

 

No, man, it's a fact. Sorry to bust your bubble, but when you can't even agree on what the top priority should be in improving the team at the deadline (I saw all of those examples from various Sox fans in this forum) then you have a flawed team and need to take it back to the drawing board.

[JimEdHOF2009]

The more and more I think about the more I think Theo spit the bit. I think they knew Damon would not come back and put the claim in there to block and if he agreed to come..bonus. They threw in the towel when they made NO move at the deadline to address glaring needs. Now they can use Damon as an excuse to the dullards. The people who have any brains can see they quit on the team.. If they hadn't we would have Scott Podsednick or Abreu as both have cleared waivers and both would help. Abreu especially as we would use him in left field next year fpr $9 mill. There has been no effort to secure a bullpen arm.. Farnsworth is having a great year and cleared weeks ago...Downs, Frasor...all would help and Toronto's demands undoubtedly have come down.. Face it..the Sox F.O. quit on them and don't think the players didn't notice.. Papi said as much around the deadline with his "We need Help"... f*** this front office.. I hope they lose the sellout streak..

[BSN07]

Boo frickity whoo. There was no single move that could have been made to to have salvaged this season. And God forbid they decide not to sell off the farm in muliple deals to try and patch a team together to chase down the 2 best teams in baseball.

 

Like I said earlier, the last time the FO supposedly "gave up" during an injury riddled season, it was followed by an off season in which they purged old contracts, shook the rosters up with key additions and won the WS. Just saying.

[a700hitter]

The more and more I think about the more I think Theo spit the bit. I think they knew Damon would not come back and put the claim in there to block and if he agreed to come..bonus. They threw in the towel when they made NO move at the deadline to address glaring needs. Now they can use Damon as an excuse to the dullards. The people who have any brains can see they quit on the team.. If they hadn't we would have Scott Podsednick or Abreu as both have cleared waivers and both would help. Abreu especially as we would use him in left field next year fpr $9 mill. There has been no effort to secure a bullpen arm.. Farnsworth is having a great year and cleared weeks ago...Downs' date=' Frasor...all would help and Toronto's demands undoubtedly have come down.. Face it..the Sox F.O. quit on them and don't think the players didn't notice.. Papi said as much around the deadline with his "We need Help"... f*** this front office.. I hope they lose the sellout streak..[/quote']I agree that the Damon claim was a move to block. We have read that the players called Damon to tell him that they'd love to have him, but I didn't read that anyone from the FO called him. If they had, maybe he'd be here.

[ORS]

I don't think there's any question that they didn't make a push for pieces this trade deadline. The angry types are acting like they are hip to some special insight into the situation there. No, it's obvious they've decided to stand pat. There's no pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. It's plain as day.

 

So, if we can move beyond the back patting, we can talk about the real issue. Should they have traded some of their minor league talent for reinforcements?

 

I don't think they should have. With Beckett and Lackey being so awful, and now with Pedroia and Youk out, I think they are a fatally flawed team, regardless of how they have been able to stay within striking distance. An OF and/or another effective RP would just be a coat of polish on the turd. While those types of moves would get them closer to the dance, and maybe even into it, I don't think they make them serious contenders to win the dance.

[jacksonianmarch]

can't afford/hal doens't pay to pay that much

 

whatever you call it, it doesn't make financial sense for them

 

Hal has a limit, that much is for certain. But that limit depends on what is coming off the books in coming yrs.

 

After 2010-

Jeter- $18.9 mil AAV

Pettitte- $11.75 mil AAV

Vazquez- $11.5 mil AAV

Rivera- $15 mil AAV

Berkman- $4 million off the books from Yankees perspective (include $2 mil buyout)

Wood- $1.5 million off the books from Yankees perspective

Thames- $800K AAV

Kearns- $800K AAV

 

$64.25 million AAV off the books

 

Positions left open-

SS, CL, SP, SP

 

Probable replacements:

SS- Jeter- proposed deal $15 mil AAV

CL- Rivera- proposed deal $15 mil AAV

SP- Lee- proposed deal $21 mil AAV

SP- Nova- league minimum

 

That leaves a total of $12.85 million for other odds and ends to break even, maybe a pen arm, maybe resigning Thames or Kearns.

 

 

After 2011-

Posada- $13.1 million AAV

Igawa- $4 million AAV

Marte- $4 million AAV

 

Positions left open-

C, LHRP

 

Probable replacements-

 

Catcher- Montero/Romine- league minimum

LHRP- Logan vs internal

 

 

After 2012-

Swisher- $7.8 mil AAV

Granderson- $8.1 mil AAV (assuming $13 mil option declined)

 

This is projecting out too far.

 

 

Regardless, this offseason is going to be expensive. We have 2 icons coming up on free agency that do not have viable alternatives in house or on the market in Rivera and Jeter. We have 2 rotation slots opening up, one that should be filled internally and one that will need to be filled externally. We have a Yankee target on the market in Crawford, but no place to put him in our order, unless we find a taker for Granderson.

 

Regardless, the Yankees said they were done spending, then they signed Teixeira after 2008 and it won them a world series. Never count them out for a free agent until the player has signed. I would be surprised if the Yankees went out and got Crawford, dont get me wrong, but I wont put it past them. Hal and the FO like to make the team sound like it is out of money, then they make a big money move. It always seems to happen.

[a700hitter]

There was no single move that could have been made to to have salvaged this season.

I disagree with this completely. In my opinion, if you are in a close race that gets decided by a handful of games, a single move can be enough to put you over the top, and it doesn't have to be a move that gets you a star player that costs you the farm. In many of these close games, a key hit can change the outcome. A good inning from a bullpen guy can win you a game. Will the acquired guy be directly responsible for the additional victories? No, he might not even get one game winning hit, but the team will be improved. If we had plugged the black hole that is Kevin Cash when Varitek first got injured, maybe the guy in front or in back of him gets pitched to differently. With Cash in the lineup, you could essentially pitch around the two guys in front of him, because he can't get the ball out of the infield. I'm just using Cash as an example, but I firmly believe that a single acquisition could make the difference. One player can change the whole dynamic of a game and a team.

 

Do you remember 2006? Yes we had a ton of injuries and the team fell apart, but the Yankees were not in any better shape in late July 2006. They got Abreu, and that guy dismantled us in the 5 game series at Fenway in the middle of August knocking the Sox from 1 1/2 games back to 6 1/2 games back in a single series. He was a big difference maker, and he did not cost the Yanks their farm system.

[a700hitter]

So, if we can move beyond the back patting, we can talk about the real issue. Should they have traded some of their minor league talent for reinforcements?

 

Stop with the condescending "angry types" and "back patting" talk. Make a point for once without including an insult. Stop characterizing the posters and just make your points.

[ORS]

Stop with the condescending "angry types" and "back patting" talk. Make a point for once without including an insult. Stop characterizing the posters and just make your points.

Piss off. The "angry types" have explicitly stated their anger. I'm only stating fact.

 

The "back patting" is exactly what's happening, and is it not insulting when they categorize everyone else as fools the FO has tricked?

 

It's funny how you don't ask them to quit with the generalizations and characterizations. You are a real piece of work. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.

[a700hitter]

Piss off. The "angry types" have explicitly stated their anger. I'm only stating fact.

 

The "back patting" is exactly what's happening, and is it not insulting when they categorize everyone else as fools the FO has tricked?

 

It's funny how you don't ask them to quit with the generalizations and characterizations. You are a real piece of work. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Just stop. I do ask the others to stop when they engage in the same type of behavior. Just make your point and stop with the put downs. Honestly, you make great points, and your points are interesting. You don't need the other stuff.

[ORS]

Just stop. I do ask the others to stop when they engage in the same type of behavior. Just make your point and stop with the put downs. Honestly' date=' you make great points, and your points are interesting. You don't need the other stuff.[/quote']

Please, don't give me this "turn the other cheek" nonsense. You don't do it. They castigated large sections of the fanbase as fools, and I exposed the foolishness of what they were doing.

 

The posts you find insulting are responses to other insults, be they direct or implied. I have no problem keeping my posts about the topic of discussion, but I'm not going to turn the other cheek, and I don't expect anyone else to.

[a700hitter]

Please, don't give me this "turn the other cheek" nonsense. You don't do it. They castigated large sections of the fanbase as fools, and I exposed the foolishness of what they were doing.

 

The posts you find insulting are responses to other insults, be they direct or implied. I have no problem keeping my posts about the topic of discussion, but I'm not going to turn the other cheek, and I don't expect anyone else to.

Whose angry now? As you point out, you were not insulting me, so I have no dog in this fight, and I'm not looking to fight with you. We've both been here a long time, and I'm always interested to read what you have to say. Your points and opinions stand fine on their own. The other stuff just detracts. That's all I'm saying. I should've done it in a PM. I apologize to you and everyone else for cluttering the thread.

[MDF3530]

White Sox waiver claim on Manny accepted

[Yaz Sideburn]

to be fair, part of the reason the front office didn't do anything this offseason is becuase we didn't appear to need offensive help prior to the deadline. ellsbury was healthy, v-mart had just come off the dl and pedroia was on his way back. it wasn't until after the deadline that youkilis got hurt, ellsbury and cameron's seasons ended and pedroia went back on the dl

 

the only move i would have liked to see would be to trade for a bullpen arm

[SCM33]

Brian Fuentes was traded to the twins for a minor league player to be named later.

 

Why were we not in on those talks? I guess they are ok with waiting for Oki to come back and stink the joint out. I guess watching the incredible MDC made management think we were ok without him. Burning out Bard and having him pitch every single night makes much more sense.

 

Sigh........could of had another solid arm to dispatch along with Bard and Papelbon at the end of games, and the FO sits on their thumbs which are in the cocked position up their ass.

 

4 games out from the AL east, wildcard and the fourth best winning percentage in ALL OF BASEBALL and the FO still will do NOTHING to help them. These guys deserve better with all theyve been through.

[a700hitter]

Brian Fuentes was traded to the twins for a minor league player to be named later.

 

Why were we not in on those talks? I guess they are ok with waiting for Oki to come back and stink the joint out. I guess watching the incredible MDC made management think we were ok without him. Burning out Bard and having him pitch every single night makes much more sense.

 

Sigh........could of had another solid arm to dispatch along with Bard and Papelbon at the end of games, and the FO sits on their thumbs which are in the cocked position up their ass.

 

4 games out from the AL east, wildcard and the fourth best winning percentage in ALL OF BASEBALL and the FO still will do NOTHING to help them. These guys deserve better with all theyve been through.

Wow! They have added Capps and Fuentes-- two closers from other teams, and the Twins are small market.

[SCM33]

Wow! They have added Capps and Fuentes-- two closers from other teams' date=' and the Twins are small market.[/quote']

 

Very frustrating. A team with a smaller payroll, a smaller market, a smaller fan base, less money to play around with......is doing everything they can to advance this year.

 

They have JJ Hardy playng SS, Span in CF. Cuddyer in RF, a 39 year old DH, Pavano as an ACE, an injured premiere closer, and a bunch of no name overachieving arms in the bullpen.....but their FO believes in them. They are still trying to get better. The twins have holes and are still trying to improve themselves.

 

The Sox? They (the players) are doing the best they can with zero help from the selfish owners who care about nothing but the almighty dollar. What a gross operation.

[a700hitter]

Very frustrating. A team with a smaller payroll, a smaller market, a smaller fan base, less money to play around with......is doing everything they can to advance this year.

 

They have JJ Hardy playng SS, Span in CF. Cuddyer in RF, a 39 year old DH, Pavano as an ACE, an injured premiere closer, and a bunch of no name overachieving arms in the bullpen.....but their FO believes in them. They are still trying to get better. The twins have holes and are still trying to improve themselves.

 

The Sox? They (the players) are doing the best they can with zero help from the selfish owners who care about nothing but the almighty dollar. What a gross operation.

The BS public relations cover story has always been that the price was too high and we don't want to sacrifice the future. What have the Twins given up for Capps and Fuentes. Fuentes was landed for a Player to be named later. That doesn't sound like a devastation for the Twins farm system. A lot of players moved to contenders, and did any of them really have too high of a price tag? I think they banked on getting players back from injury in time to help and they miscalculated. This season was not a lost cause. One or two acquisitions could have made a huge difference without paying too steep a price. The FO flubbed it this season. That's my opinion.

[Emmz]

Lol. The Twins only this year have been aggressive. During the Carl Pohlad era we got very little help from the FO. I can't remember how many times we stuck to our guns, and did nothing. Now we're making splashes in free agency, making deals during the season, etc.

 

But even last year we really didn't do anything. This offseason we were expected to let Joe Mauer go. That's how notoriously cheap we were.

[db41]

Let's not fall in love with the Twins here. The Sox and Twins have identical records and we play a much tougher schedule.

[ORS]

The BS public relations cover story has always been that the price was too high and we don't want to sacrifice the future. What have the Twins given up for Capps and Fuentes. Fuentes was landed for a Player to be named later. That doesn't sound like a devastation for the Twins farm system. A lot of players moved to contenders' date=' and did any of them really have too high of a price tag? I think they banked on getting players back from injury in time to help and they miscalculated. This season was not a lost cause. One or two acquisitions could have made a huge difference without paying too steep a price. The FO flubbed it this season. That's my opinion.[/quote']

The Twins gave up their #2 prospect, catcher Wilson Ramos, for Capps. Let's not act like it's nothing.

 

We don't know what Fuentes cost until they announce the PTBNL.

[Dipre]

I personally don't see the logic in making a strong prospect investment on a relief pitcher given their volatile nature (See Gagne,Eric) and even less when it's done in a move that may or may not actually help this team make the playoffs. I'm one of the more optimistic guys, but the truth is, this team is flawed because of Beckett and Lackey's ineffectiveness as well as missing the two best hitters in this lineup. They may pull off a miracle and make the playoffs with what they have, and who knows what may happen from there, but standing pat at the deadline was probably the right thing to do.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hell might freeze over, but I agree Dipre. You cannot lose your #1-#3 hitters AND have what was supposed to be your #2 and #3 pitchers s*** the bed.

[a700hitter]

The Twins gave up their #2 prospect, catcher Wilson Ramos, for Capps. Let's not act like it's nothing.

 

We don't know what Fuentes cost until they announce the PTBNL.

That's a very reasonable cost for a 26 year old top closer who doesn't hit the FA market until 2012. I don't think that is a bad cost, especially since that prospect is a catcher and he has nowhere to go in the Twins organization behind Mauer. At most he would be a backup catcher for the Twins. Turning your potential backup catcher into a starting 26 year old closer is a pretty good deal. As you pointed out we don't know who will be the PTBNL, but Fuentes is a really quality bullpen arm.

[ORS]

Reasonable cost? I'd be pissed if the Sox traded away their #2 prospect for someone like Matt Capps.