Waiver Wire 2010

[a700hitter]

Yeah sure glad to see that Varitek. Who is on the D.L. Ortiz who does nothing but D.H. Last but not least Wakefield who is no longer a starting pitcher want him back. Just makes you feel all warm and cozy on the inside to know all the soon to be retired players want Damon back for one more small shot at Glory before the end.

... and Tito, but he doesn't count either. I don't know why you wouldn't want to improve the batting order for the last month of the season.:dunno:

 

I guess the opposing manager from the team we are chasing doesn't count either.

[Dojji]

Not sure why Damon is such a definite improvement when Nava has better numbers and Damon's defense has completely disintegrated.

 

Never acquire a player based on how good he used to be. Ever.

[a700hitter]

Not sure why Damon is such a definite improvement when Nava has better numbers and Damon's defense has completely disintegrated.

 

Never acquire a player based on how good he used to be. Ever.

Because Damon still has superior skills to Nava.

[Yaz Sideburn]

i think there are 2 reasons why damon is saying he's not sure if he'll come back to boston

 

1. he wants financial incentive to return

2. he doesn't think the red sox actually want him, and just did this to block him from going to tampa bay or new york

 

i have a hard time believing he actually enjoys playing in detroit

[a700hitter]

i think there are 2 reasons why damon is saying he's not sure if he'll come back to boston

 

1. he wants financial incentive to return

2. he doesn't think the red sox actually want him, and just did this to block him from going to tampa bay or new york

 

i have a hard time believing he actually enjoys playing in detroit

He has some bitterness about the way things ended. He probably wants to be wooed.

[Dojji]

Because Damon still has superior skills to Nava.

 

No he doesn't.

 

There, see what I did? I provided just as much supporting evidence as you and asserted the opposite conclusion. Now the next person who wants to make an assertion along these lines had better come in here with supporting evidence if he doesn't want to look like a babbling idiot.

[a700hitter]

No he doesn't.

 

There, see what I did? I provided just as much supporting evidence as you and asserted the opposite conclusion. Now the next person who wants to make an assertion along these lines had better come in here with supporting evidence if he doesn't want to look like a babbling idiot.

It is just such a ridiculous comparison. Damon runs faster and steals bases, has more power and catches flies better than Nava. It is just a ridiculous notion. There is a reason why the Sox put in a claim for him to block him from Tampa or the Yanks. He's still good. He's not great, but making out a lineup card, I think you would be hard pressed to find a manager who would pencil in Nava over Damon this season. I know that you feel that you discovered Nava and take some sort of pride in that, but he is at best a marginal major leaguer who will be lucky to play on a major league roster for parts of the next 2 to 3 years.

[ORS]

Where are you getting the "more power" part? Nothing in their play this year suggests that's the case.

[a700hitter]

No he doesn't.

 

There, see what I did? I provided just as much supporting evidence as you and asserted the opposite conclusion. Now the next person who wants to make an assertion along these lines had better come in here with supporting evidence if he doesn't want to look like a babbling idiot.

What evidence have you presented? Do you have splits on the times from home to first, home to second and first to third for both players? Has Nava demonstrated the ability to steal bases? Nava has 1 major league Home Run. Is that what you are going to use as a basis for your conclusion that he has more power than Damon? He doesn't. What are you basing the fielding comparisons on... a small sample size of Nava in LF? He breaks very late on balls consistently. What have you got as support? 120 ABs where he is barely comparable and his numbers are still sliding from his hot start. He is this generations Morgan Burkhart. Look him up. Burkhart had a better power swing, but other than that they are the same guy. I expect that Nava's career will follow the same trajectory as Burkhart's and not even approach Damon's worst season.

[Dojji]

Damon has stolen a whopping 9 bases this year, so while he still has his good timing, the once-vaunted speed is no longer a major factor.

 

Nava has a higher OBP and higher SLG than Damon. Neither one is a big home run hitter, but Nava puts the bat on the ball well better than Johnny Damon still does, even if he doesn't do it as well as Damon once did (but no longer does).

 

Nava knows how to throw a baseball more than 5 feet on the fly, giving him a decisive defensive advantage.

 

Nava is also a fair bet to maintain or improve on his offensive skills with playing time. Damon, at best, is what he is, at worst, well he is a 36 year old with a high dependence on speed, those really don't age all that well.

[a700hitter]

Damon has stolen a whopping 9 bases this year, so while he still has his good timing, the once-vaunted speed is no longer a major factor.

 

Nava has a higher OBP and higher SLG than Damon. Neither one is a big home run hitter, but Nava puts the bat on the ball well better than Johnny Damon still does, even if he doesn't do it as well as Damon once did (but no longer does).

 

Nava knows how to throw a baseball more than 5 feet on the fly, giving him a decisive defensive advantage.

 

Nava is also a fair bet to maintain or improve on his offensive skills with playing time. Damon, at best, is what he is, at worst, well he is a 36 year old with a high dependence on speed, those really don't age all that well.

....and again you are basing this on 100 ABs? Brian Daubach looked like a perennial All Star in his first 100 ABs, and Daubach's career is 100 times better than anything Nava could dream about. You need to come to grips with the fact that he is a small player with a very limited skill set. He had a nice story and he's got a few great memories. I was at the game when he hit the Grand Salami. It was a thrill, but he is little more than a AAA guy who can come up in an emergency. That's his ceiling. There's also a reason why contending teams such as the Yanks and Tampa want to add Damon down the stretch. Do you think that it's because they think that players like Nava and McDonald are better than Damon? Both teams have Nava and McDonald types in their organization. I wonder why they want him?

[Dojji]

and what kind of career is Damon looking forward to from this point?

 

Yeah I thought so. Kinda pointless to bring up projections when they flatter neither player.

 

You need to come to grips with the fact that he is a small player with a very limited skill set.

 

I'll take a "limited" skillset gladly when it focuses as much on excellent contact skills as Nava's does. A contact hitter with line drive gap power and decent defense in left over the monolith of awesomeness that is a 36 year old Johnny Damon trying to hit in a park built for the guy he was 10 years ago? Sign me up.

 

Especially because unlike Damon, Nava is actually going to be here next year, and may benefit from the experience.

[italstallianion]

I'd only be interested in Damon if we can get the draft pick out of him. If not, then f*** it. Damon isn't going to put us into the playoffs, and we don't need him. And he won't be here the following year anyway, so we'd be better suited to give the young guys experience.

[a700hitter]

and what kind of career is Damon looking forward to from this point?

 

Yeah I thought so. Kinda pointless to bring up projections when they flatter neither player.

I guess you are missing the point that we only care about how Damon will do in the next month and possibly the playoffs.

 

 

I'll take a "limited" skillset gladly when it focuses as much on excellent contact skills as Nava's does. A contact hitter with line drive gap power and decent defense in left over the monolith of awesomeness that is a 36 year old Johnny Damon trying to hit in a park built for the guy he was 10 years ago? Sign me up.

Nava is a marginal major leaguer. If we need to send a player to the minors before we expand the roster, he'll be the first one out the door. Damon, for at least the next month or so, is a major league player who brings more to the table than Nava for the next couple of months. That's all the FO will care about if Damon comes--- the next 2 months. This is not a move for the future. It's a here and now move, a rent-a-player move. Damon will immediately improve this lineup. Nava has been pretty useless since the middle of July. The bloom is off his rose. He's a bush leaguer.

[Dojji]

That bush leaguer is still outhitting the epic stud that is 36 year old Johnny Damon on the year, and he's been doing it with patchy playing time that prevents him from finding consistency.

 

Nava deserves a chance to see what he does over a couple weels of consistently starting in LF before we even seriously think about giving up on the guy. Especially because his season numbers even with spotty time are, frankly, not too freaking bad.

[redsoxrules]

I wonder if the Yankee's or the Rays will take a chance and go for Manny

[a700hitter]

That bush leaguer is still outhitting the epic stud that is 36 year old Johnny Damon on the year, and he's been doing it with patchy playing time that prevents him from finding consistency.

 

Nava deserves a chance to see what he does over a couple weels of consistently starting in LF before we even seriously think about giving up on the guy. Especially because his season numbers even with spotty time are, frankly, not too freaking bad.

I don't think he is being traded, so he'll have his shot next spring. Right now, I'd prefer a seasoned professional in the lineup when the season is on the line over the next couple of weeks.

[a700hitter]

I wonder if the Yankee's or the Rays will take a chance and go for Manny

That would be really interesting.

[Yaz Sideburn]

i think damon's in for a rude awakening. he just said he thinks the tigers are still in it and it sounds like he thinks he's going to play a big role on the team. he said he's going to talk to the team's management and if they plan on going with the young guys instead of him, it's a "no brainer" which i assume means that he'll come to boston

[Yaz Sideburn]

I wonder if the Yankee's or the Rays will take a chance and go for Manny

 

it doesn't look like it. the white sox just said that they'd put in a claim on him if he goes on waivers and that would block him from going to the yankees or rays

[ORS]

700's primary defense of Damon has been, "Nava won't amount to anything". Not a strong selling point. If you need to focus on how much you think the other guy will be a bust, that kind of suggests there isn't much good to say about your guy, and with Damon as your guy, that's understandable.

[ORS]

I don't think he is being traded' date=' so he'll have his shot next spring. [b']Right now[/b], I'd prefer a seasoned professional in the lineup when the season is on the line over the next couple of weeks.

Please, the part in bold is the only way you ever come down on this issue. "Now" has nothing to do with it. Now, then, always, and forever.

[Yaz Sideburn]

johnny damon would do 3 things. he would play better defense than nava, he would be a better leadoff hitter and he would net us a draft pick if we offer him arbitration at the end of the year. he's a point away from becoming a type a free agent as well

[JimEdHOF2009]

I can guarantee you this.. Detroit wants Damon gone.. Boston wants him..and he will not be in the lineup tonight for Detroit. Johnny Damon is 9-16 vs. Felix Hernandez with a ridiculous 1.611 OPS... He will be batting leadoff vs. Hernandez as the Sox go for the sweep they desperately need.

[Divinity]

If Damon ends up with the Red Sox and Manny goes to the White Sox they'll be facing each other next week.

[a700hitter]

Please' date=' the part in bold is the only way you ever come down on this issue. "Now" has nothing to do with it. Now, then, always, and forever.[/quote']Who plays today is not a "now" issue. Who plays for the next month is not a "now" issue. Nava will still be here, so whatever little future he has will not be affected. Who do you right into your lineup card tonight, Nava or Damon? I asked you this earlier. Did you answer?

[ORS]

I think an arbitration offer to Damon is a risky proposal. I think the market will be shy of more than a 2-year deal, and given that he hits like a CF but needs to play LF, I'd be very surprised if it was for more than $6M a year. With arb, he'd make the same or more than he does now. And being a type-A wouldn't help, because I doubt teams would be interested in losing their first round pick for him.

 

I agree that he'd play better defense, but I don't see any guarantee of more offense.

 

If he's free (by that I mean he only costs the remainder of his contract), sure, take him. Otherwise, don't bother.

[italstallianion]

johnny damon would do 3 things. he would play better defense than nava' date=' he would be a better leadoff hitter and he would net us a draft pick if we offer him arbitration at the end of the year. [b']he's a point away from becoming a type a free agent as well[/b]

 

 

That might actually hurt us because it will be less likely that he signs with a team if that team has to give up a draft pick in order to get him.

[ORS]

Who plays today is not a "now" issue. Who plays for the next month is not a "now" issue. Nava will still be here' date=' so whatever little future he has will not be affected. Who do you right into your lineup card tonight, Nava or Damon? I asked you this earlier. Did you answer?[/quote']

Nava.

 

And yes, those are "now" issues. I never suggested they weren't. I'm saying your preference for an experienced veteran is dogma. Now or later never makes a difference.

[Yaz Sideburn]

damon's not going to hit for power but it would make quite a difference to get scutaro out of the leadoff spot. it would also allow lowrie to hit second so we could put ortiz 3rd and move drew down in the order

 

damon - .272/.358/.410

lowrie - .299/.413/.517

ortiz - .267/.371/.544

martinez - .281/.332/.441

beltre - .325/.364/.558

drew - .261/.352/.457

lowell - .229/.304/.375

scutaro - .276/.337/.377

mcdonald - .271/.338/.435