John Lackey: Offical Bust

[example1]

I have no idea why players wouldn't want to come to Boston unless they are paid through the nose.

 

Thanks, Toucher and Rich, for that classy piece of hard-hitting commentary.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Let's give Lackey the benefit of the doubt.. He has a proven track record as a winner.. He was working with the WORST defensive catcher in the game.. No arm, game-calling skills, or receiving skills. I am glad I will not have to see Victor behind the dish. Had we let Papi walk and signed Victor as STRICTLY and EMERGENCY catcher and full-time DH I would have been happy.. He is worth more than Papi at DH as he CRUSHED lefties and usually hits well vs RHP though he stumbled a bit last year off his career avg's.

[BSN07]

I always allow for 1 transition season with FA's coming to Boston, or at least try to. I never felt Lackey was a good long term solution for the team. But hopefully he manages to be at least league average. And to be honest, you coul have a lot worse in the #4 spot in the rotation.

[mvp 78]

I always allow for 1 transition season with FA's coming to Boston' date=' or at least try to. I never felt Lackey was a good long term solution for the team. But hopefully he manages to be at least league average. And to be honest, you coul have a lot worse in the #4 spot in the rotation.[/quote']

 

He's just way overpaid for a number 4. It limits what the Sox can do otherwise.

 

If he can turn things around along with Beckett, ownership won't have to worry about ratings.

[BSN07]

He's just way overpaid for a number 4. It limits what the Sox can do otherwise.

 

If he can turn things around along with Beckett, ownership won't have to worry about ratings.

 

If the pitching staff is able to perform to career averages, they should be fine.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I have complete faith that Lackey will return to his normal level of dominance next year. Look at his second half after the ASB: 15 starts, 102 IP, 98 hits, 26 BB, 88 K, 8 HR, 3.97 ERA, 3.30 FIP, 3.38 K/BB. Those peripherals are great and are much more in line with his career totals then the first half of the season. I think he needed time to adjust and that we're going to have a very good pitcher on our hands next year.

[jacksonianmarch]

It is easy to pull shorter time periods and try to make a generalized statement about them. I think Lackey does better in 2011, not because of how he finished, but because he is a much better pitcher than what his numbers suggested. Unless there is an injury, I expect Lackey to have an ERA in the low 4's, throw 200+IP and be a good, not great SP. That is what he had been prior to 2010 and that is what I think he becomes again in 2011

[SoxSport]

If Lackey doesn't improve to #2 starter quality this year, Epstein should lose his salary bonus. They have obscene money invested in this guy for what he showed last year.

[Palodios]

I know his WHIP sucked, and his ERA left a bit to be desired, but he didn't have a horrible season. He was 8th in the league in IP, and 8th in the league in quality starts. I've been saying it since they signed him, but he's meant to be a veteran presence in the rotation who will absorb innings, get wins, and protect the young arms coming through the system. He has done all that.

 

Lackey is not the kind of guy who will either pitch like an ace or like garbage on any given game.He's usually good, and sometimes very good. He pitched fewer than 6 innings only five times all season. With a better catcher, and a better pitching coach, I see him being a very consistent part of this rotation moving forward.

[SCM33]

Only reason I bumped this thread was because of the semi-funny toucher and rich piece on him.....it has actually led to some good conversation haha.

[example1]

If Lackey doesn't improve to #2 starter quality this year' date=' Epstein should lose his salary bonus. They have obscene money invested in this guy for what he showed last year.[/quote']

 

How do you even define this? What does #2 starter quality mean? #2 on which team?

[BSN07]

I know his WHIP sucked, and his ERA left a bit to be desired, but he didn't have a horrible season. He was 8th in the league in IP, and 8th in the league in quality starts. I've been saying it since they signed him, but he's meant to be a veteran presence in the rotation who will absorb innings, get wins, and protect the young arms coming through the system. He has done all that.

 

Lackey is not the kind of guy who will either pitch like an ace or like garbage on any given game.He's usually good, and sometimes very good. He pitched fewer than 6 innings only five times all season. With a better catcher, and a better pitching coach, I see him being a very consistent part of this rotation moving forward.

 

That's reasonable. I believe the original reason I didn't like the Lackey deal is because I thought it would screw them with Beckett negotiations. But since that didn't happen I probably shouldn't hold it against him like I do. Looking passed the money the guy is a bull dog type. Bit of a meatball sometimes, but still I shouldn't hate on him as much as I do for some reason.

[Emmz]

It is easy to pull shorter time periods and try to make a generalized statement about them. I think Lackey does better in 2011' date=' not because of how he finished, but because he is a much better pitcher than what his numbers suggested. Unless there is an injury, I expect Lackey to have an ERA in the low 4's, throw 200+IP and be a good, not great SP. That is what he had been prior to 2010 and that is what I think he becomes again in 2011[/quote']

 

Consindering that his second half is "more in tune with his career" which is what Rdsxmbnt said, and that he generally wasn't even that terrible to begin with. It's not like his second half was some ridiculous unsustainable success, it's just closer to what you come to expect from Lackey by his career numbers.

[SoxFan1970]

I knew I liked you!

 

Sorry to have derailed the thread. I just couldn't resist.

 

Back to Lackey. I was quite pleased when he was signed. Although I've never liked the contract. But hey, I guess that was what it took to get someone everyone seemed to see as a very good pitcher.

 

At this point I am reluctant to call him a bust. I'd call him an extreme disappointment. A poor value. Some of the Boston media say that they expect Lackey to improve next year because he will have learned how to pitch in the AL East. I think this a very dumb assumption. I just see how a guy his age has that much to learn about his craft. I think he's been mediocre at best, against the whole league.

 

As far as trading him? That won't happen. Unless the Sox are prepared to eat a s*** load of his contract.

 

If any Sox starting pitcher gets moved this off-season, it will be Dice. He's affordable.

 

Dice +1 to the Dodgers for Eithier. That could happen.

[SoxFan1970]

I agree with your thinking Spud. Hopefully he can bounce back for our benefit and be at least what he was for the Angels.

 

And Dice-K +1 to Dodgers is what i've been thinking for awhile. Would love to see Eithier in RF.

 

I've heard that he and Pedroia are best friends from their college days and they live close to eachother and hang out. That could help make for an easy transition.

 

I'd take Eithier over Werth.

[BSN07]

Dice-K +1 for Either? That's a bit optimistic. Like the idea though.

[a700hitter]

Dice-K +1 for Either? That's a bit optimistic. Like the idea though.

What if the +1 is Kalish?

[SoxFan1970]

What if the +1 is Kalish?

 

I think i may pass if Kalish is the +1. I think he is going to be good.

 

Would like to see him as our centerfielder for the next 5-6 years min.

 

I'm sure if we are going to get Agon it will be a trade and Ellsbury will be included, so Kalish would fit in nicely in CF.

[BSN07]

What if the +1 is Kalish?

I'm ok if it's Kalish. But that should take Ellsbury off the market. But I still would be surprised if LAD let him go for that. They are spending money and don't seem to be a team that is sending "selling" signals

I think i may pass if Kalish is the +1. I think he is going to be good.

 

Would like to see him as our centerfielder for the next 5-6 years min.

 

I'm sure if we are going to get Agon it will be a trade and Ellsbury will be included, so Kalish would fit in nicely in CF.

 

The Sox won't need to trade that much for Agon. SD won't trade him until they are out. At that time they are looking at a deal similar to what LAA paid for Tex. Not what Atlanta paid. LAA got a 1/2 year or so of Tex for Casey Kotchman and a prospect. The time for a big haul for Agon has passed IMO. I would not be surprised if they held onto him for the duration of the season and collected the picks for him. Let's not forget Hoyer is a Theo disciple. He will high draft picks probably more so then what he may be looking at come deadline time. Of course there is always the chance of a desperate GM that might overpay. Other then that I think they collect the picks.

[Will617]

The Sox won't need to trade that much for Agon. SD won't trade him until they are out. At that time they are looking at a deal similar to what LAA paid for Tex. Not what Atlanta paid. LAA got a 1/2 year or so of Tex for Casey Kotchman and a prospect. The time for a big haul for Agon has passed IMO. I would not be surprised if they held onto him for the duration of the season and collected the picks for him. Let's not forget Hoyer is a Theo disciple. He will high draft picks probably more so then what he may be looking at come deadline time. Of course there is always the chance of a desperate GM that might overpay. Other then that I think they collect the picks.

 

I think that GMs overall value draft picks more than they did a few years ago. I don't have any evidence to support this, it's just a feeling I get. Not that it would ultimately change the package for Agon by a huge amount.

[redsoxrules]

this Thread needs a bump

 

 

JOHN LACKEY SUCKS

 

 

Can he possibly suck even more at this point ?

[SCM33]

this Thread needs a bump

 

 

JOHN LACKEY SUCKS

 

 

Can he possibly suck even more at this point ?

 

Nope, hes been about as bad as you can be.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

 

There is a thread for everything. Anyways...

 

Since joining the Red Sox these are John Lackey’s numbers…:

 

16-15, .516*W/L Record

 

4.76 ERA

 

247.2 IP, 174*K’s

 

6.3*K/9 IP…

 

——

 

So that means that since leaving the Angels his ERA has almost gone up a full run, his win loss record down .60+ points and he is averaging 1 less strikeout per 9 innings pitched…. overrated.

[SCM33]

I think the saddest part about Lackey, is that I dont think he was ever really that good.

 

Is anyone truly shocked at how bad hes been?

 

Hes always been pretty average AND he was pitching in the AL West, a pitchers heaven.

[Emmz]

Everyone always seemed to think he was some kind of ace. He never was, he was really just a solid pitcher who was good for a mid-to-upper-3s ERA.

[yeszir]

And it's so sad to watch him pitch because he's out there and you know he THINKS he's good.....but he's not.

[a700hitter]

Everyone always seemed to think he was some kind of ace. He never was' date=' he was really just a solid pitcher who was good for a mid-to-upper-3s ERA.[/quote']People here have their heads explode when someone evaluates a pitcher based on win-loss record, but a starting pitcher who won 15 games only once while pitching for a perennial playoff team wit a strong bullpen is not an ace. Now that we have the opportunity to see all of his starts everyone is coming to the same conclusion. The FO should have known better.

[Palodios]

You know what, I'd take 4 runs over 6 innings from a #4 starter. The extra five runs go to Francona, not Lackey.

[redsoxrules]

You know what' date='[b'] I'd take 4 runs over 6 innings from a #4 starter[/b]. The extra five runs go to Francona, not Lackey.

 

seriously ? you know that equals an ERA of 6

 

so you're totaly fine paying Lackey 85 MIL to be the 4th starter and have an ERA of 6 ?

[Palodios]

seriously ? you know that equals an ERA of 6

 

so you're totaly fine paying Lackey 85 MIL to be the 4th starter and have an ERA of 6 ?

 

I'm fully aware of what that means. Its a lot of money for a *expletive* starter. But after the *expletive*show we saw last night for the first six innings, when I looked at the box score, saw 3-4, Lackey pitching 6 innings, I was okay with that because we saw exactly how little Lackey had last night, and he battled through it and atleast kept the game close. Francona blew that game, not Lackey.