David Ortiz performance thread.

[SCM33]

Tons of threads about Ortiz out there, none of which seem to keep the boards interest. Lets keep this thread strictly evaluating his game to game performance, and the amount of time left before he is released, or his role is reduced.

 

4/30/2010:

Mercy.

[a700hitter]

Tons of threads about Ortiz out there, none of which seem to keep the boards interest. Lets keep this thread strictly evaluating his game to game performance, and the amount of time left before he is released, or his role is reduced.

 

4/30/2010:

Mercy.

His role has already been reduced. He is in a platoon with Lowell. He's not going to get released.

[Gom]

It's amazing that people still pine for the old Ortiz. The guy build a career on drugs. He never was a good hitter before the drugs, and now is not a good hitter after the drugs. He's finished.

[a700hitter]

It's amazing that people still pine for the old Ortiz. The guy build a career on drugs. He never was a good hitter before the drugs' date=' and now is not a good hitter after the drugs. He's finished.[/quote']This is just stupid.

[italstallianion]

This is just stupid.

 

 

 

I agree, he should have used "built" instead of "build"

[example1]

Past performance aside, there is nothing dangerous about him as a hitter right now. The guy can't hit good FBs (he can foul them off) and he's baffled by offspeed pitches. This team is too talent-rich to let itself coast along in its current form. As much as I like him, Ortiz has been disasterously bad.

[Dojji]

Thanks for 2004 and 2007 big guy. When you were good, you were really good, and you retroactively earned your salary this year by giiving us some of the best seasons a Red Sox hitter ever had, and you played a tremendous role in both of the rings the Sox earned in my lifetime. But everything comes to an end sometime and it looks like it's your time. We'll always love what you were, but you're sapping your legacy with every at bat. Time to move on and go build schools in the Dominican or something, and let us remember the good times.

[a700hitter]

I think he is going to have a big night tonight.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I think he is going to have a big night tonight.

 

back away from the crack pipe..he is finished.

 

He is fouling off average MLB fastballs right down the middle of the plate...when he was David Ortiz..those balls would have been deposited into the bleachers. We cannot afford to wait any longer...TB and NYY are not going to "FALL BACK" to us.. the Sox are going to have to go catch them. Lackey and Lester seemed to have righted their ships...Clay has been good right along.. If Dice and Beckett pitch like I think they will.. we will have the best 1-5 in baseball...and possibly the best set-up closer combo... that being said, we NEED a big bat. Ortiz's poor performance is killing Youks, Vmart.. there is no penalty for walking them or giving them crappy pitches to hack at.. Youks is "less" selective this year than any year I have seen him.. everyone is trying to do more than they should because we have a GAPING abyss in the 5-hole. There is no JASON BAY to cover for Ortiz's poor performance. If we wait until the trade deadline we are going to be 10 games behind Tampa and New York even with our pitching because we cannot score enough runs.

 

It is time young Theo. Time to forget about run prevention, Beltre, and everything else and get this lineup the big bopper it so desperately needs. Dunn, Konerko, I really don't care.. get someone who can hit 30-plus Hr's and drive in 100-plus.. now.

[a700hitter]

back away from the crack pipe..he is finished.

 

He is fouling off average MLB fastballs right down the middle of the plate...when he was David Ortiz..those balls would have been deposited into the bleachers. We cannot afford to wait any longer...TB and NYY are not going to "FALL BACK" to us.. the Sox are going to have to go catch them. Lackey and Lester seemed to have righted their ships...Clay has been good right along.. If Dice and Beckett pitch like I think they will.. we will have the best 1-5 in baseball...and possibly the best set-up closer combo... that being said, we NEED a big bat. Ortiz's poor performance is killing Youks, Vmart.. there is no penalty for walking them or giving them crappy pitches to hack at.. Youks is "less" selective this year than any year I have seen him.. everyone is trying to do more than they should because we have a GAPING abyss in the 5-hole. There is no JASON BAY to cover for Ortiz's poor performance. If we wait until the trade deadline we are going to be 10 games behind Tampa and New York even with our pitching because we cannot score enough runs.

 

It is time young Theo. Time to forget about run prevention, Beltre, and everything else and get this lineup the big bopper it so desperately needs. Dunn, Konerko, I really don't care.. get someone who can hit 30-plus Hr's and drive in 100-plus.. now.

Ortiz looked the same way last year. He'll come out of this, but the question is whether they can afford to wait. Unlike last year, there is no Bay to pick up the slack. Drew has been slumping too until last night. They are in danger of falling out of this race from giving away games, not from Ortiz's or Drew's slumps or cold pitching. They gave away three games that I can think of. Let's start with last night's game in which Beltre was on a mission to donate the game to the Orioles. He made mistakes in the field and two on the bases. Forgetting the number of outs and getting caught stealing 3rd for the 3rd out is unforgivable.

 

They gave away two games to Tampa. There was the Friday night where the idiot 3B coach sent Youk to his death at home with no one out. Scutaro made an error and Beltre lost a ground ball in the lights that was scored a hit. I have no problem with Beltre losing the ball in the lights, but it was a Baltimore chop. When he lost it in the lights, he should have tried to knock it down to keep the ball in the IF so the runner from second didn't score. Instead he jerked away from it like it was a hand grenade and the ball bounced slowly into the OF allowing the run to score. Again stupidity. If that harmless high chopper had hit him on his thick skull, the ball would have been the worse for it, but he chose to olay it like a retard. Apologies to Gov. Palin.

 

In Saturday's game, Cameron gave the game away in the first inning with a ridiculous error leading to 4 runs. We can survive the slumps and the cold pitching, but the errors and stupidity have been killing us.

 

As for getting a big bopper at this point, who has the crack pipe now. There will be no big bopper available until it is too late this season, if then. There were two big boppers available this winter-- one desperately wanted to stay with us. The other was Holliday. We opted for neither, but decided to go for a 37 yr old CF, who, in his prime, wasn't half the hitter that Holliday is. His season has been a train wreck so far. We also went for a brainless third baseman to clog up the IF rotation and force VMart to catch every game giving all AL base runners a free pass for second base. Don't be expecting any big bopper soon.

[Gom]

Thanks for 2004 and 2007 big guy. When you were good' date=' you were really good, and you retroactively earned your salary this year by giiving us some of the best seasons a Red Sox hitter ever had, and you played a tremendous role in both of the rings the Sox earned in my lifetime. But everything comes to an end sometime and it looks like it's your time. We'll always love what you were, but you're sapping your legacy with every at bat. Time to move on and go build schools in the Dominican or something, and let us remember the good times.[/quote']

 

The most logical thing said by a Red Sox fan about Ortiz. Kudos.

[a700hitter]

The most logical thing said by a Red Sox fan about Ortiz. Kudos.

Yes, logic and Doji are synonymous when it comes to Red Sox issues.

[Gom]

Apologies to Gov. Palin.

Never.

In Saturday's game, Cameron gave the game away in the first inning with a ridiculous error leading to 4 runs. We can survive the slumps and the cold pitching, but the errors and stupidity have been killing us.

I understand baseball's scoring rules. However, it is kind of ******** if you ask me. A guy makes an error, and a run scores because of it, fine. However, If he gives up three hits to follow it and they score three more runs, all of them are unearned. That's a ridiculous rule, if you ask me. Cameron made the error, fine. What about the hitters after that?

 

This is not a knock on the pitcher, just on the rule. After a phenomenal catch that saves two runs, you don't chalk up the runs to the pitcher saying "well, he shouldn't have caught that ball anyways". Just my two cents anyways.

who has the crack pipe now.

The Red Sox FO and their sheep on this board.

 

Seriously, going after a defensive team when you play in a band box is not the best course of action. The premise behind UZR is excellent, but the formulation and dissemination of the data is faulty, which is why the statistic is useless. Not because of the premise, but because of the application of the data...and I may be giving it to much credit.

 

Also, if you are going to build a team on defense and run prevention, it is a waste of resources to keep the worst catcher in baseball at "run prevention".

 

I think at this point, those that were debating me about the importance of a catcher behind the plate are eating TONS of s*** right now, and downing it with cases of SHUT THE f*** UP. If they feel to argue some more, pllease refer to GOM's Fearless Predictions, number 7. Here is the link if you need it.

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/general-baseball-forum/13981-goms-fearless-predictions.html

 

:thumbsup:

 

a700, you are not in this group. You've been harping the same case as me for a while.

[ORS]

Gom, I've dropped the issue with you because despite being shown conclusively the errors in the basis for your argument, you still ring the same out of tune bell. Don't mistake a lack of engagement for concession of the point. Most of us are just tired of your s***.

[example1]

While I appreciate a700s point about the defense and bullpen having blown a number of games, I still think a big piece of the problem rests on Ortiz... or, to put it another way, the problem is with not having a guy who can kill other teams offensively when they did in the past. It isn't Ortiz per-se, but rather the lack of the role that he is supposed to play. That may be a FO issue, it may be a timing issue (i.e., they can't get rid of/replace Ortiz quickly enough) and it is certainly a performance issue (the entire offense has started off poorly).

 

I don't expect him to bounce back. He may bounce back, but I don't expect it. As others have said, he's missing on average MLB fastballs and struggling to foul off offspeed stuff. He hasn't driven the ball in a long time and doesn't do it consistently.

 

The season is either going to slip away in the first half, or they're going to have to do something about this problem. i think they need to address BOTH the offense and the bullpen. They are nowhere near as strong in the pen as they were last year and it is hurting them.

 

Part of me doesn't mind seeing them struggle because I think it will motivate the FO to do something more drastic than if they were on track to win 95 games and still be "not good enough". In 2008 and 2009 I was confident that they would make the playoffs and that they were also not close to the best team in baseball. If they expect the infusion of young talent to have any foundation on which to build, they are going to need to be aggressive and get some bonafide mashers into the lineup to supplement their great pitching.

[YeAuldBroade]

Yes' date=' logic and Doji are synonymous when it comes to Red Sox issues.[/quote']

Good Lord, now I know you're a lost cause.

[a700hitter]

While I appreciate a700s point about the defense and bullpen having blown a number of games' date=' I still think a big piece of the problem rests on Ortiz... or, to put it another way, the problem is with not having a guy who can kill other teams offensively when they did in the past. It isn't Ortiz per-se, but rather the lack of the role that he is supposed to play. That may be a FO issue, it may be a timing issue (i.e., they can't get rid of/replace Ortiz quickly enough) and it is certainly a performance issue (the entire offense has started off poorly).[/quote']I didn't throw any stones at the bullpen, just at the defense and the stupid play. The bullpen needs to improve, and I have stated that. However, a bullpen can gel as the season progresses. On the other hand, there is no excuse for bad D and stupid play. Ortiz is a big problem, and I said from the beginning that not resigning Bay or signing Holliday or another big bat was going to put a tremendous amount of importance on Ortiz's performance. In short, if he isn't something close to a force in the middle of the lineup, the Sox are screwed, because there is no one else to take up the slack.

 

I don't expect him to bounce back. He may bounce back' date=' but I don't expect it. As others have said, he's missing on average MLB fastballs and struggling to foul off offspeed stuff. He hasn't driven the ball in a long time and doesn't do it consistently. [/quote']I'm pretty sure that you had the same opinion last year. One of these years you will be right. Maybe this is the year. I feel the same as I did last year. When the weather warms up, his bat will get hot and he'll hit them in bunches like he did last year. About three-quarters of this board thought I was nuts when I predicted it last year. The difference this year is that there is no room for the team to wait patiently. If he slumps through may, the season will be over. They might have to pull the plug on him and cut down his PT to try to score runs in May and stay in the race. If he gets enough PT, he will be a productive power hitter, but he may not get the PT because the team can't afford the time.

[redsoxrules]

ORTIZ FINISHED WITH A 796 OPS LAST YEAR EVEN WHEN HE HAD THOSE GOOD MOMENTS

 

do you want another year of that ?

[a700hitter]

ORTIZ FINISHED WITH A 796 OPS LAST YEAR EVEN WHEN HE HAD THOSE GOOD MOMENTS

 

do you want another year of that ?

I could live with that. There were some pretty good hitters around that .800 mark. I might sign up for that right now.

[YAZMAN]

Papi misses Manny.

[YeAuldBroade]

Tough. Then it's time for him to pull up his big girl panties and learn to cross the street by himself.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Papi misses Manny.

 

This. He needs protection.

[a700hitter]

I think he is going to have a big night tonight.

^This

[Palodios]

^This

 

[a700hitter]

I think he is going to have a big night tonight.

^ This again.

[Spudboy]

^ This again.

 

Never question an old dude's instincts.

[a700hitter]

Never question an old dude's instincts.

But they will.

[Dipre]

Gom' date=' I've dropped the issue with you because despite being shown conclusively the errors in the basis for your argument, you still ring the same out of tune bell. Don't mistake a lack of engagement for concession of the point. Most of us are just tired of your s***.[/quote']

 

One thousand times this.

[a700hitter]

You can't draw any conclusions from one game. I am on record saying that I think Ortiz will get hot and hit consistently for power. I'm not sure about when he'll break out, or if they will stick with him until he does. If he starts popping the ball out of the park on a regular basis Tito needs to move him behind Youk and move You to the 3 hole. You want your big bopper having as many chances as possible with men on base. Two and three run HRs really hurt, and he'll get plenty of shots at them with Pedrois and Youk setting the table. That's right, If he starts going deep, he needs to be in the 4th slot with the table setters in front of him and VMart and Drew protecting him.

[Spudboy]

It will be tough for Ortiz to break out sitting on the bench. People criticized "Francoma" last year for sticking with the guy. This year, the team is not wining and may not be able to sustain having a nonproductive bat in the everyday line-up.