10 Ways to Fix this team

[jacksonianmarch]

Massive strawman.

 

I said you need to judge the whole body of work.

 

He has s*** the bed in some respects, but mostly, he's done a good job, as identified by the WS rings.

 

If he goes from '10 to '12 without assembling a playoff team, by all means, can his ass, but with the way this team has performed since he took the GM job, you can safely assume he's done a more than acceptable overall job with "John Henry's and the fans' money".

 

If you can find me a GM that hasn't f***ed up several times in the FA, trade market and even in spending the team's money in the draft, i'll be the first one with a "Fire Theo, bring XXX to Boston" sign outside of Fenway.

 

Whomever is the GM of the Marlins hasnt f***ed up. He hasnt had the opportunity to do so

[Dipre]

Whomever is the GM of the Marlins hasnt f***ed up. He hasnt had the opportunity to do so

 

Hahahahahaha.

 

Well done sir.

[Eck20and8]

in addition to the awful FA signings, the drafting and development is a real concern, Theo has never drafted and developed a pitcher into a long-term spot in the rotation - one reason why's he had to hit the FA market hard

 

tired of hearing about guys like Michael Bowden and Lars Anderson only to see them fizzle out, and the farm system's bare now

 

he's better than Duquette, though that's not saying much, plenty of people could have been around in 2004 and 2007

[Dipre]

in addition to the awful FA signings' date=' the drafting and development is a real concern, [b']Theo has never drafted and developed a pitcher into a long-term spot in the rotation[/b] - one reason why's he had to hit the FA market hard

 

tired of hearing about guys like Michael Bowden and Lars Anderson only to see them fizzle out, and the farm system's bare now

 

he's better than Duquette, though that's not saying much, plenty of people could have been around in 2004 and 2007

 

Jon Lester

[italstallianion]

in addition to the awful FA signings, the drafting and development is a real concern, Theo has never drafted and developed a pitcher into a long-term spot in the rotation - one reason why's he had to hit the FA market hard

 

tired of hearing about guys like Michael Bowden and Lars Anderson only to see them fizzle out, and the farm system's bare now

 

he's better than Duquette, though that's not saying much, plenty of people could have been around in 2004 and 2007

 

 

 

Lars Anderson is only 22 and hasn't played above AA and was injured last year. I'd wait awhile longer before saying that he "fizzled out". And the farm system certainly isn't bare as we still have an average to above average farm system. I forget the exact rankings but we were somewhere in the 11-14 range. Certainly not bare.

[italstallianion]

Jon Lester

 

 

And there might be a few more on the way...these things take time.

[jacksonianmarch]

The farm system isnt truly "bare" but there is a reason why it isnt as highly ranked. You have Youkilis, Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Delcarmen, and Ellsbury in the majors.

 

Guys do flame out. Bowden seems to be totally lost, Tazawa blows out an arm, etc. The sox come into seemingly every yr with one prize offensive and one prize pitching prospect. Couple problems with this bunch. The top dog on the pitching end is a HS kid in AA who isnt ready physically for the show. And the prize offensive prospect would be lucky if he's walking without a limp let alone swing a bat again after his unfortunate hemangioma resection. Soon, Rizzo will take that spot, but he isnt near the prospect Westmoreland was. The bottom line is, the sox drafted well for a few yrs with collegiate guys then went younger. It's a risky proposition, but it typically gets you the better players over the long haul. It just takes 4-5 yrs to harvest your crop instead of the 2-3 it takes for a collegiate player. Trust me, the sox 2009 draft is going to be really, really good come 2013. It just might take a long time to come to fruition. This is the nature of prospecting

[Spudboy]

in addition to the awful FA signings, the drafting and development is a real concern, Theo has never drafted and developed a pitcher into a long-term spot in the rotation - one reason why's he had to hit the FA market hard

 

tired of hearing about guys like Michael Bowden and Lars Anderson only to see them fizzle out, and the farm system's bare now

 

he's better than Duquette, though that's not saying much, plenty of people could have been around in 2004 and 2007

 

Of course you are aware that only 6% of MiLB player make it to MLB.

[Eck20and8]

Jon Lester

 

drafted by Duquette, not Theo

[italstallianion]

drafted by Duquette' date=' not Theo[/quote']

 

 

 

He was certainly developed by Theo, and considering the amount of time that Theo has been here, he's drafted and developed some very good talent. Better than that of a lot of teams.

[Dipre]

drafted by Duquette' date=' not Theo[/quote']

 

Wasn't Duquette. Lester was drafted in '02.

 

And, in reality, you don't develop a starting rotation staple in a couple of years. It takes time, and this team has candidates. You don't develop a rotation staple overnight.

[Gom]

The farm system isnt truly "bare" but there is a reason why it isnt as highly ranked. You have Youkilis, Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Delcarmen, and Ellsbury in the majors.

 

Guys do flame out. Bowden seems to be totally lost, Tazawa blows out an arm, etc. The sox come into seemingly every yr with one prize offensive and one prize pitching prospect. Couple problems with this bunch. The top dog on the pitching end is a HS kid in AA who isnt ready physically for the show. And the prize offensive prospect would be lucky if he's walking without a limp let alone swing a bat again after his unfortunate hemangioma resection. Soon, Rizzo will take that spot, but he isnt near the prospect Westmoreland was. The bottom line is, the sox drafted well for a few yrs with collegiate guys then went younger. It's a risky proposition, but it typically gets you the better players over the long haul. It just takes 4-5 yrs to harvest your crop instead of the 2-3 it takes for a collegiate player. Trust me, the sox 2009 draft is going to be really, really good come 2013. It just might take a long time to come to fruition. This is the nature of prospecting

The nature of prospecting is that most of these players will be nobodies.

 

The Red Sox fanbase got spoiled, seeing an impact player come up one season for 4 or 5 straight seasons. It just doesn't work that way. The Yankees had their run with Jeter, Bernie, Jorge, Andy, and Mo. Then it dried up for a decade. These things are cyclical.

[jacksonianmarch]

They are all about putting money into the farm and getting a bit lucky. Boston put money into their farm starting at the very end of the Duquette era, and it is no accident that they developed good players. If you put money into the farm, you may miss on some of the more publicized guys, but you will hit on a few guys you didnt expect. Nobody expected Youk to get to where he is, but the sox also missed on Ryan Dent and Jason Place. It happens. But if you put a better crop into the farm, you'll eventually bring out better players. NY is experiencing this now as well

[Eck20and8]

he's drafted and developed some very good talent. Better than that of a lot of teams.

 

worse than a lot too, look at Philly with Howard, Utley, Hamels, Happ

 

or the Rays, who are a draft & development machine, and have 23 yo Desmond Jennings ready to come up when Carl Crawford leaves

 

there are no bats in the system right now, and with just a few innings at AA, hardly ready to put Casey Kelly in an elite prospect class

[Dipre]

worse than a lot too, look at Philly with Howard, Utley, Hamels, Happ

 

or the Rays, who are a draft & development machine, and have 23 yo Desmond Jennings ready to come up when Carl Crawford leaves

 

there are no bats in the system right now, and with just a few innings at AA, hardly ready to put Casey Kelly in an elite prospect class

 

Happ is a middle of the rotation starter. They also had some crappy teams through the years which allowed them a better draft position.

 

The Rays had no money and put everything into the draft. Ditto on draft position.

 

The Sox have Papelbon, Delcarmen, Bard, Youkilis, Lester, Bucholz, Pedroia and Ellsbury on the ML roster.

 

I don't get the point you're trying to make. The Sox don't have many prospects on the brink right now because they've been adding them left and right to the big club, so it's only logical that a re-loading period follow such a depletion of the farm system.

[TedWilliams101]

in addition to the awful FA signings, the drafting and development is a real concern, Theo has never drafted and developed a pitcher into a long-term spot in the rotation - one reason why's he had to hit the FA market hard

 

tired of hearing about guys like Michael Bowden and Lars Anderson only to see them fizzle out, and the farm system's bare now

 

he's better than Duquette, though that's not saying much, plenty of people could have been around in 2004 and 2007

 

What are you smoking? Jon Lester is obvious, but Buchholz has a TON of talent, he may become an Ace one day. Since when did Bowden "fizzle out". Masterson is a serviceable pitcher and still has upside. You also shouldn't count out the pen arms. Bard looks really really good. Papelbon was supposed to be a starter, but when he performed so well as a closer (a DIRE need of the team), there was no reason to have him start.

 

Theo has drafted and developed a TON of talent, what do you expect, 5 Aces to come from the minors every year?

[italstallianion]

worse than a lot too, look at Philly with Howard, Utley, Hamels, Happ

 

or the Rays, who are a draft & development machine, and have 23 yo Desmond Jennings ready to come up when Carl Crawford leaves

 

there are no bats in the system right now, and with just a few innings at AA, hardly ready to put Casey Kelly in an elite prospect class

 

 

 

The Rays are a bad example because they have had a LOT of high picks (many in the top 5) which largely effects how good the player is.

 

There are many problems with the Red Sox that you can rip on, but you're claims about the Sox system are largely unfounded.

[Spudboy]

worse than a lot too, look at Philly with Howard, Utley, Hamels, Happ

or the Rays, who are a draft & development machine, and have 23 yo Desmond Jennings ready to come up when Carl Crawford leaves

 

there are no bats in the system right now, and with just a few innings at AA, hardly ready to put Casey Kelly in an elite prospect class

 

And there are others coming up too.

[TedWilliams101]

worse than a lot too, look at Philly with Howard, Utley, Hamels, Happ

 

or the Rays, who are a draft & development machine, and have 23 yo Desmond Jennings ready to come up when Carl Crawford leaves

 

there are no bats in the system right now, and with just a few innings at AA, hardly ready to put Casey Kelly in an elite prospect class

 

Hanley Ramirez. You forget that the big market teams tend to trade their prospects for key elite players. If we stockpiled our talent, we could have put together an amazing team by now, but we might have struggled for a few "rebuilding" years. That's the difference between teams like the Red Sox and Rays. The Red Sox are built to compete year in year out, the Rays aren't.

[italstallianion]

Hanley Ramirez. You forget that the big market teams tend to trade their prospects for key elite players. If we stockpiled our talent' date=' we could have put together an amazing team by now, but we might have struggled for a few "rebuilding" years. That's the difference between teams like the Red Sox and Rays. The Red Sox are built to compete year in year out, the Rays aren't.[/quote']

 

 

 

AND, he's also forgetting the fact that teams like the Sox and Yankees end up signing a lot of FA's that cost us draft picks, so that we end up without a lot of top picks in our drafts.

[jacksonianmarch]

and that some bonus baby HSers would rather go somewhere they can rise the ranks faster. See: Gerrit Cole. ARRGH!!

[yankees228]

AND' date=' he's also forgetting the fact that teams like the Sox and Yankees end up signing a lot of FA's that cost us draft picks, so that we end up without a lot of top picks in our drafts.[/quote']

 

And even with that fact, the Red Sox have done a good job. There are legitimate gripes that people can have about Theo, without a doubt, but I just don't think the draft and the farm system are included.

[Palodios]

When was the last time they did well with free agents? All of the latest big contracts-- Daisuke, Lowell, Lugo, Smoltz, and so on have been big failures. When it comes to big free agents the front office fails to pay them or keep them happy.

 

Look at 2009-- With all the money the team has, only two difference makers came from outside of the organization-- Bay and Beckett, but the price for both was incredibly steep.

 

I have no problem with how the farm system has been handled, but with free agency, the last two or three years have been resounding failures.

[TedWilliams101]

When was the last time they did well with free agents? All of the latest big contracts-- Daisuke, Lowell, Lugo, Smoltz, and so on have been big failures. When it comes to big free agents the front office fails to pay them or keep them happy.

 

Look at 2009-- With all the money the team has, only two difference makers came from outside of the organization-- Bay and Beckett, but the price for both was incredibly steep.

 

I have no problem with how the farm system has been handled, but with free agency, the last two or three years have been resounding failures.

 

Lowell was a FA? Really? I thought he came with Beckett.... He earned his extension. Smoltz was a big contract? Really?....

 

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Palodios]

Lowell was a FA? Really? I thought he came with Beckett.... He earned his extension. Smoltz was a big contract? Really?....

 

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

No, I do know where Lowell came from and how the whole situation is working, you took my post wayyy too literally, please don't be a dick. The point is that the majority of players coming from outside of the organization have been a waste of money.

[YeAuldBroade]

No' date=' I do know where Lowell came from and how the whole situation is working, you took my post wayyy too literally, please don't be a dick. The point is that the majority of players coming from outside of the organization have been a waste of money.[/quote']

...and the difference between the Sox and every other team in MLB is????? I'll wait.

[Palodios]

...and the difference between the Sox and every other team in MLB is????? I'll wait.

 

The difference is that we have a top front office that doesn't make mistakes... oh wait.

[Dipre]

The difference is that we have a top front office that doesn't make mistakes... oh wait.

 

You have a valid point, but exxagerating it makes it lose validity.

[Eck20and8]

Jon Lester is obvious

 

Red Sox History Lesson 101: Theo did not draft Jon Lester

[Dipre]

Red Sox History Lesson 101: Theo did not draft Jon Lester

 

Red Sox history lesson 102: You dont only have to draft players, but you also have to develop them. The Theo regime developed Jon Lster.

 

Red Sox history lesson 103: Rotation mainstays dont grow on trees.