Yankees deal for Vazquez

[diony]

He was below average two years and above average one year.

 

He had and ERA+ of 98, 126 and 98 in '06,'07 and '08.

 

He had a WAR of almost 5.0 in those 3 years with FIPs in the 3.80 range.

[jacksonianmarch]

Vazquez is one of two pitchers to post a WAR of 4.5 or higher since 2006. Halladay being the other one. BUT HE SUCKS!!!

[Dipre]

He had a WAR of almost 5.0 in those 3 years with FIPs in the 3.80 range.

 

According to WAR, the 2008 version of Josh Beckett was 0.2 wins more valuable than Javier Vasquez, even though Beckett, peripherals and all, was much more effective.

 

WAR uses FIP as a baseline for its SP valuations, and in Vasquez' case, his pretty peripherals don't add up to his actual on-field production.

 

WAR proves you right, but color me skeptical.

[jacksonianmarch]

No tool is perfect. But when you combine pristine peripherals with a beautiful FIP, you have to at least be skeptical about the ERA. In 2009, the peripherals matched his performance. I dont expect that to happen to the same degree in 2010, but he really has been a very good pitcher for a long, long time. We just happened to get him at a time when his arm tired for half a season and we shipped him away. I think all of his stats point towards him being rather successful, and we might be talking about him signing an extension rather than leaving via FA

[Dipre]

When he's effective in the AL, and his "pristine" FIP translates to him not giving up runs by the buttload, you can talk about extensions.

[jacksonianmarch]

The good thing is, we have a yr to figure that out. That's the beauty of this deal. As long as he toes the rubber in 2010, he'll retain his Type A status (based on his incredible 2009), and if he isnt solid, then we let him walk for 2 draft picks. We essentially get to audition one of the most underappreciated starters in baseball for a yr and get compensation if he doesnt cut it

[Dipre]

The good thing is' date=' we have a yr to figure that out. That's the beauty of this deal. As long as he toes the rubber in 2010, he'll retain his Type A status (based on his incredible 2009), and if he isnt solid, then we let him walk for 2 draft picks. [b']We essentially get to audition one of the most underappreciated starters in baseball for a yr and get compensation if he doesnt cut it[/b]

 

Really?

[jacksonianmarch]

You dont think he's underappreciated? A guy who takes the bump consistently and gives above average to great performances yr after yr?

[Dipre]

You dont think he's underappreciated? A guy who takes the bump consistently and gives above average to great performances yr after yr?

 

Nope.

 

He is what he is.

[Imperial59]

You dont think he's underappreciated? A guy who takes the bump consistently and gives above average to great performances yr after yr?

 

He's given an above average performance in the AL once in four seasons.

[jacksonianmarch]

according to your skewed standards. FIP takes away all biases.

[Imperial59]

He had a WAR of almost 5.0 in those 3 years with FIPs in the 3.80 range.

 

He's posted a WAR of 5 once in 4 years in the American League. But keep on pickin those cherries.

[jacksonianmarch]

But he posted a WAR of 4.5+ per yr over the last 4 seasons. Only one other pitcher in baseball has done that. And that's Halladay

[Imperial59]

according to your skewed standards. FIP takes away all biases.

 

Can you offer any logical argument why Vazquez, who has underperformed his FIP by 0.36 points over his almost 2,500 major league innings will perform up to his FIP next year? He'll be pitching for a team that had a -4.9 UZR/150 and a -18.5 UZR last year and he'll be pitching in the most friendly home run hitting park in the majors as a pitcher as a guy who's given up 1.2 HR/9 in his career.

[Imperial59]

But he posted a WAR of 4.5+ per yr over the last 4 seasons. Only one other pitcher in baseball has done that. And that's Halladay

 

Do you think he's comparable to Halladay?

[Dipre]

Do you think he's comparable to Halladay?

 

That's exactly my point.

[jacksonianmarch]

Do you think he's comparable to Halladay?

 

Not at all. He's just durable and effective. That's the point that you keep trying to gloss over

[Dipre]

Not at all. He's just durable and effective. That's the point that you keep trying to gloss over

 

How can you be effective if you're giving up runs by the buttload?

 

That's the point you keep trying to gloss over.

 

You can't blame it all on the White Sox team defense.

[Imperial59]

Not at all. He's just durable and effective. That's the point that you keep trying to gloss over

 

Gloss over?

 

I've provided every stat I can think of to show how he's been no more effective than a league average starter in the AL. Sure, he'll give you 200 innings. But wouldn't you rather have the bullpen in there if he's going to be giving up more than a run every other inning on average as he has in the American League over his career?

[diony]

Do you think he's comparable to Halladay?

 

No, but he was a steal.

[Dipre]

No' date=' but he was a steal.[/quote']

 

No one has discounted that.

 

And you just kicked your own argument in the balls by the way.

[Spudboy]

Do you think he's comparable to Halladay?

 

Actually, he has more quality starts than any other active starting MLB pitcher 2000-2009. Including Halliday.

 

Still, I think the guy will get lit-up in the AL East. I hope so, anyways.

[diony]

No one has discounted that.

 

And you just kicked your own argument in the balls by the way.

 

I never compared him to Halladay.

[Dipre]

I never compared him to Halladay.

 

I apologize.

 

Jacko kicked your argument in the face by doing so.

[diony]

I apologize.

 

Jacko kicked your argument in the face by doing so.

He didn't compare Vazquez with Halladay either. Come on, focus on the post, not the poster.

[Dipre]

Vazquez is one of two pitchers to post a WAR of 4.5 or higher since 2006. Halladay being the other one. BUT HE SUCKS!!!

 

He didn't compare Vazquez with Halladay either. Come on' date=' focus on the post, not the poster.[/quote']

 

Reading comprehension is essential.

[jacksonianmarch]

They mustnt teach basic reasoning in the Dominican. I said that Vazquez and Halladay were the only ones to post a 4.5+ WAR since 2006. I never said that Vazquez was as good as Halladay. Cmon man, you are just getting more and more ridiculous with each passing day

[Dipre]

They mustnt teach basic reasoning in the Dominican. I said that Vazquez and Halladay were the only ones to post a 4.5+ WAR since 2006. I never said that Vazquez was as good as Halladay. Cmon man' date=' you are just getting more and more ridiculous with each passing day[/quote']

 

No.

 

It's basic Jacko reasoning. You drop that little nugget in there, then deny your "attempt to compare" or your "saying x is better than y".

 

It's a common tactic.

 

Funny thing, that we here in the Dominican seem to avoid bias a lot better than you big-country folk.

[jacksonianmarch]

You know nothing about common tactics aside from your own high horse and projection of what you think onto others.

[Imperial59]

They mustnt teach basic reasoning in the Dominican. I said that Vazquez and Halladay were the only ones to post a 4.5+ WAR since 2006. I never said that Vazquez was as good as Halladay. Cmon man' date=' you are just getting more and more ridiculous with each passing day[/quote']

 

Do really need to bait and insult other members this much?