Yankees deal for Vazquez

[Yaz Sideburn]

anyone who thinks his poor results are due to him throwing an 89 mph fastball instead of a 90 mph fastball is fooling themselves. and based on his trend of decreasing velocity and his age, it should have been expected that he'd sit around 90 mph on his fastball

 

i think many yankees fans were excited about how well he did in the national league east and his war values. i heard many even make the claim that he was an ace. but it just goes to show you how different the two leagues are and value stats like war, fip, etc. can sometimes be quite innacurate in evaluating the abilities of players.

 

sometimes you just have to use common sense - if he couldn't provide league average innings in the american league in his prime why would anyone expect him to provide league average innings at age 34 when his velocity was 91 mph and decreasing

[jacksonianmarch]

No matter how much of a revisionist you wish to be, a 2.2mph dropoff is not predictable on anyone sans a player coming off shoulder surgery. And yes, his FB velocity is directly proportional to his inability in the AL East. He has always been a guy who could flash 93-95mph and sit 91. That makes his changeup at 80-82mph that much more effective. When his FB sits 89, what was a double digit difference is down to 7-9mph. That difference is absolutely essential for a pitcher. And if you look at his 2004 season with us, a dropoff in velocity as the season neared a close was directly associated with his high ERA in the second half

[Yaz Sideburn]

 

if it helps you sleep better at night, keep believing you would have been right if only he had a 90 mph fastball instead of a 89 mph fastball. god forbid you admit that you flat out misjudged the guy rather than trying to blame a freakish loss in a velocity or some undisclosed injury as the real reasons he continued to suck in the american league

 

you're worse than josh beckett trying to explain why he had a poor performance after a game

[jacksonianmarch]

I see. So when you dont have an argument you go to ********. Listen man, the stats back me up. Now Vazquez has always been a 3 solid pitch pitcher. Good FB, solid changeup and good curve. With his loss of FB velocity, his critical flaw was that he never dropped the velocity of his change like Mussina did in his final season. Therefore, the small difference in velocity set that change up to fbe batting practice. It relegated him to two pitches, and when one of them is an 89mph straight fastball, it isnt going to be pretty

[Yaz Sideburn]

the stats back you up

 

 

justify it however you want but his 5.32 era, 1.39 whip, 157.1 ip and 121 strikeouts do the opposite of backing you up. they make you dead wrong. i can't believe you're still trying to argue that trading for vazquez looked like a good move

[jacksonianmarch]

It wasnt a good move in retrospect. My point is that nobody could have predicted this severe a decline in stuff.

[Yaz Sideburn]

and my point is that he would have sucked whether his fastball was 89 mph or 90 mph as should have been predicted

[jacksonianmarch]

You keep talking about 1mph. It's 2.2mph of a dropoff, which is an average over thousands of pitches. Keep belittling it. But that is a massive dropoff.

[Yaz Sideburn]

he was a 34 year old pitcher who's fastball velocity had dropped each of the previous two years. it should have been assumed that he'd likely see a drop in velocity. the actual drop in velocity that he saw was only 1 mph different from the drop in velocity that should have reasonably been predicted for him based on his age and the rate at which his velocity had dropped the previous years

[jacksonianmarch]

This move is turning into a nightmare for NY. Vazquez sucked in NY and all we have to thank for it is Dante Bichette Jr, who remains to be seen in terms of his future. But we gave up Melky, who is now in KC and is 3rd in the AL in hits. We have up Michael Dunn, who is now a reliable lefty power reliever in Florida (he was acquired in the Uggla trade). And then we gave up the prize in the deal, Arodys Vizcaino. He's dominated the minors as a 20 yr old and was recently moved to the pen to see if he could help the club right now. They're about to find out, as he's been called up to the big club. This is looking like the Nady and Marte deal

[rlchange]

Cant see that going well for the Yanks. Their pitching is all around "okay". But they might need a pitcher to compete with the redsox, instead of sabathia sucking.