Yankees deal for Vazquez

[jacksonianmarch]

More durable rotation? With Buchholz and Matsuzaka in the rotation? Just for shits and giggles, here are the composite numbers from 2009...

 

Yankee rotation: 70-41 162GS 1008IP 931H 422ER 360BB 911K 3.77ERA 1.28WHIP 8.1K/9IP 2.5K/BB

Boston rotation: 54-32 119GS 743.1IP 733H 324ER 232BB 685K 3.92ERA 1.30WHIP 8.3K/9IP 2.9K/BB

 

Similar WHIP, yankees better in ERA, sox a smidge better in K/9IP and better in K/BB. But the Yankee rotation made 162 starts last yr and threw 250+ more innings. With NY's lineup and now with a pen either boasting Hughes or Joba in that setup role, this rotation is better suited for their team and is deeper. When your only question mark is your #5 hole, things are going well. Plus, with Vazquez added, we have 4 pitchers who routinely throw mid 90s and 3 guys capable of ringing up 200 guys in a season (maybe 4 by the time Joba rules are out). Now, I understand there will be a regression for Vazquez since he's coming to the AL East, but a full season out of DiceK or Buchholz will move some of those numbers northward for Boston too. But if those guys put in a full season, the sox will be happy. That's the biggest question. Can DiceK and Buchholz give them 32 starts in a season. That is something that is yet to be determined.

[jacksonianmarch]

Don't get ahead of yourself. The Yanks would have to offer Vasquez arbitration before they can get draft picks' date=' and the Yanks have let alot of Type A's and B's go without offering them arbitration and in the past 2-3 years alone, have left a lot of potential draft picks disappear. And even in the off chance that you do get the draft picks, the Yankees aren't a very good drafting team, so the picks won't necessarily help New York that much, not to mention that the Yankees will most likely lose other draft picks from signing more free agents.[/quote']

 

NY has done this because the guys they are letting go are grossly overpaid. Vazquez is getting paid 11.5million in 2010. If you have a 33 yr old pitcher who routinely throws 200IP and K's 200 batters in a season, do you think he accepts arbitration? The problem recently has been guys who make 13-16 million between Damon and Abreu with a significant drop in their earning potential.

[ORS]

This is a good move for the Yankees. They gave up a 4th OF and a little potential for a starter that is a good bet to throw 200 league average or better innings. It's probably not as good as some of the Yankee fans are suggesting here. He's had some issues with the long ball in the past, and he's moving into a home park that plays like a video game on the beginner setting. But, considering what they gave up and the current makeup of the team (GFIN), this works for them.

[jacksonianmarch]

Take a look at the numbers for Vazquez in the NL and AL. His WHIP is .02 points higher in the AL. His H/9 is identical and his K/9 is identical, but his ERA is nearly a half a run per 9IP higher. I dunno, with those peripherals, I expect some big things here

[Tyler Durden]

I don't like it! I don't like trading Melky' date=' I don't like trading Dunn for Boone f***ing Logan, and I don't like trading Vizcaino. Vazquez better pitch good this year otherwise I'm gunning for Cashman's head. I hope Melky is an All Star this year as well. This is f***ing ********. if we could have kept Dunn and Boone out of it I might like it more, but as of now I feel like Atlanta raped us. This is what Cashman was up all night doing? You've got to f***ing be kidding me! Didn't we try the Javy Vazquez thing once before? All I have to say is he better redeem himself, for real. I keep having images of Damon hitting that grand slam off him in game 7, and it's not a pretty sight.[/quote']

 

Is this post a joke?

[Tyler Durden]

Great move by the Yankees.

 

Sox still have a slight edge in the rotation, but the Yankees have a better lineup and bullpen, and overall, a better team.

[ORS]

We know, you'd expect big things from homeless people if they were wearing pinstripes.

[jacksonianmarch]

Those homeless people won a world series last yr, last I checked. And, they added more vagrant talent.

[diony]

I expect CC, AJ, Vasquez and Joba to put K/9 of 8+, that's sick.

[redsoxrules]

More durable rotation? With Buchholz and Matsuzaka in the rotation? Just for shits and giggles, here are the composite numbers from 2009...

 

Yankee rotation: 70-41 162GS 1008IP 931H 422ER 360BB 911K 3.77ERA 1.28WHIP 8.1K/9IP 2.5K/BB

Boston rotation: 54-32 119GS 743.1IP 733H 324ER 232BB 685K 3.92ERA 1.30WHIP 8.3K/9IP 2.9K/BB

 

Similar WHIP, yankees better in ERA, sox a smidge better in K/9IP and better in K/BB. But the Yankee rotation made 162 starts last yr and threw 250+ more innings. With NY's lineup and now with a pen either boasting Hughes or Joba in that setup role, this rotation is better suited for their team and is deeper. When your only question mark is your #5 hole, things are going well. Plus, with Vazquez added, we have 4 pitchers who routinely throw mid 90s and 3 guys capable of ringing up 200 guys in a season (maybe 4 by the time Joba rules are out). Now, I understand there will be a regression for Vazquez since he's coming to the AL East, but a full season out of DiceK or Buchholz will move some of those numbers northward for Boston too. But if those guys put in a full season, the sox will be happy. That's the biggest question. Can DiceK and Buchholz give them 32 starts in a season. That is something that is yet to be determined.

 

 

you are aware that the Sox added Lackey right ?

 

last year the Sox only had 2 reliable starters. Lester & beckett

 

next year you add Lackey .... Dicek who will be in fit condition this time around and Buchholz will start the season as a starter

[Keeper]

The only guarantee you have with Vazquez is that he'll eat up innings. But for his stuff, this guy is a huge underachiever. He gave up 1.5 HR/9 when he was on the Yankees in 2004. Expect more of that at that launching pad you call a baseball park.

[diony]

The only guarantee you have with Vazquez is that he'll eat up innings. But for his stuff' date=' this guy is a [b']h[/b]uge underachiever. He gave up 1.5 HR/9 when he was on the Yankees in 2004. Expect more of that at that launching pad you call a baseball park.

 

A huge underachiever with great peripherals. One of the most consistent and solid pitchers in baseball, underachiever.

[Tyler Durden]

Vazquez is pretty much a lock for 200 innings, 200 strike outs (which you need in Yankee Stadium), less than 2 walks every 9 innings, and 12-15 wins.

 

Who cares what his ERA (my guess 4.20ish) or whatever stat is as a 4th starter, at the end of the day this guys to be eating some valuable innings and winning ball games.

 

Solid solid solid move.

[Keeper]

Yes, his peripherals have always been great (except HR/9). Consistent? I'll give you that. He has consistently underachieved.

[yankees228]

It all depends on which Javier Vazquez the Yankees get. I would lean towards the 2008 model, though not quite as bad. For reference, here are his past two years:

 

2008 (White Sox): 4.67 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 3.28 K/BB, 8.6 K/9

2009 (Braves): 2.87 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, 5.41 K/BB, 9.8 K/9

 

He's going to be a good #3 and will be worth what the Yankees gave up. I don't think Melky is anything more than a fringe starter. Arodys Vizcaino may end up being the best player in this deal--he has great stuff.

 

While he 2008 ERA was rather high, his FIP was 3.74 and his xFIP was 3.85. In my opinion, he was better than he 2008 numbers indicated.

 

Since 2006, his WAR ratings have been...

 

4.8

5.1

4.8

6.6

 

In the AL East, I don't expect Vazquez to duplicate his 2009 season, but he should slide right in as an excellent number three, or even number two starter.

 

In my opinion, this was a fantastic deal for the Yankees. They get Vazquez for one year, at an affordable salary (when you consider what he has been worth the last four years), and with his contract, and Pettitte's contract expiring after this year, they're primed to dip into the 2010 free agent class.

 

It's important to keep in mind that, even if the Yankees don't make any more moves, Brett Gardner is as good, if not better than Melky. Cabrera's WAR last year was 1.4, while Gardner's was 2.1.

 

I don't know much about the prospect, so I really can't comment on him, but I understand he is a long way from the big leagues, with a lot of upside. He's probably the biggest casualty of the deal.

[TheMino007]

Vazquez was garbage during his one year in NY, his ERA was 4.90 and he gave up 30 home runs. Imagine him in the new Yankees Stadium. Yanks got desperate on this move, and it won't pay off. He's won't have a good a year as Dice-K or Buchholz. It does however, open up the LF spot for the Yankees, so it would make sense for them to pursue Jason Bay or Matt Holliday.

[yankees228]

I really don't think it's fair to cite what Vazquez did in 2004 as evidence that this isn't a good deal.

[Tyler Durden]

I really don't think it's fair to cite what Vazquez did in 2004 as evidence that this isn't a good deal.

 

He was an All-Star in the first half, had arms problems in the 2nd half.

 

By the way, check out Josh Becket's first year numbers in Boston.

[yankees228]

I get that his career home run rate, which is already subpar, might become even worse at NYS, but that is hardly enough to justify calling this a bad deal.

[TheMino007]

He'll get lit up in the AL East, espically pitching at home. He's a pitcher who has benefited greatly from pitching in the NL. Luckily, the Yanks didn't give up anything really.

[yankees228]

He'll get lit up in the AL East' date=' espically pitching at home. He's a pitcher who has benefited greatly from pitching in the NL. Luckily, the Yanks didn't give up anything really.[/quote']

 

He benefitted last year from pitching in the NL, but, in his three years in Chicago, he posted WAR ratings of 4.8, 5.1, and 4.8? I guess that counts for nothing. Not the AL East, but still very impressive.

[Tyler Durden]

Home runs isn't a big deal with Vazquez because he strikes a lot of guys out and he doesn't walk guys...

[Dipre]

Javier Vasquez is a fantastic addition for the Yankees, specially at the cost.

 

He's going to provide innings and keep them in ballgames. Anyone who argues otherwise is speaking out of pure bias.

[yankees228]

Javier Vasquez is a fantastic addition for the Yankees, specially at the cost.

 

He's going to provide innings and keep them in ballgames. Anyone who argues otherwise is speaking out of pure bias.

 

WHAT?!?! He struggled in the second half of the 2004 season! How can this possibly be a good move?

[Dipre]

WHAT?!?! He struggled in the second half of the 2004 season! How can this possibly be a good move?

 

The fact is, the Yankees are getting the #4 starter for their rotation. And even if he posts an ERA in the 4.50 range, he'll pitch at least 180 innings and average a K per inning and win 13-16 ballgames. Pretty damn good for a #4 if ya ask me.

[diony]

Home runs isn't a big deal with Vazquez because he strikes a lot of guys out and he doesn't walk guys...

 

Agree 100%, his career FIP is 3.83 which is 0.36 points lower than his career ERA, which means the HRs don't affect his numbers really much, for the reasons you mention.

 

Even if his HR/9 skyrockets from a career 1.16 HR/9 to a 1.50 HR/9, we'd still be talking of about an 4ish ERA, which is what everyone is expecting.

 

Great move.

[diony]

The fact is' date=' the Yankees are getting the #4 starter for their rotation. And even if he posts an ERA in the 4.50 range, he'll pitch at least [b']180[/b] innings and average a K per inning and win 13-16 ballgames. Pretty damn good for a #4 if ya ask me.

 

200.

[Dipre]

Agree 100%, his career FIP is 3.83 which is 0.36 points lower than his career ERA, which means the HRs don't affect his numbers really much, for the reasons you mention.

 

Even if his HR/9 skyrockets from a career 1.16 HR/9 to a 1.50 HR/9, we'd still be talking of about an 4ish ERA, which is what everyone is expecting.

 

Great move.

 

His xFIP, which in my opinion is more reliable than FIP, because it eliminates an over-valuing of Homeruns lists him even lower at 3.64.

 

It's a great improvement in terms of both rotation and bullpen for a very reasonable cost.

[Tyler Durden]

The fact is' date=' the Yankees are getting the #4 starter for their rotation. And even if he posts an ERA in the 4.50 range, he'll pitch at least 180 innings and average a K per inning and win 13-16 ballgames. Pretty damn good for a #4 if ya ask me.[/quote']

 

Exactly. Couldn't of said it better myself.

[ORS]

Yes' date=' his peripherals have always been great (except HR/9). Consistent? I'll give you that. He has consistently underachieved.[/quote']

When I watch him pitch it's like he never developed between the ears beyond the age of 13. He pitches to strike people out....all of them. He consistently makes mistakes with pitches trying to throw the perfect pitch for the strikeout. If you could put Jamie Moyer's head on his body, you'd have a bonafide ace.