Yankees deal for Vazquez

[jacksonianmarch]

This is actually a good post. Garland could have definitely got the job done and wouldn't and have cost any prospects. Only money. And we all know the Yankees have no problem spending money. He's doesn't have Vazquez's stuff or upside' date=' but he's an innings eater with a good sinker. A dependable guy to have at the back end of a rotation.[/quote']

 

again, you are looking at ERA to solely evaluate a pitcher. Garland's peripherals suck. He doesnt strike out anyone, he gives up a ton of hits and a fair share of BB's. If you like FIP, Garland has consistently been in the 5 range for his final couple of yrs in the AL. Vazquez, OTOH, has had about the same peripherals in the NL as he has had in the AL. His FIP's for Chicago had all been in the 3 range. The yankees are going by the blueprint that won them a world series. Power and OBP out of the lineup and power and durability out of the rotation.

[ORS]

Garland was not in the 5 range. That said, the point about peripherals is both correct and funny. Correct for the obvious reasons. Funny because you argued the opposite for so long about CMW. I don't know if you've learned from your ignorance of the past, or is this is your usual flip-flopping, but I'll remember you said this moving forward when the next low-K guy comes up from your farm system.

[jacksonianmarch]

It was different for Wang since he was an extreme groundball pitcher. Extreme GB pitchers will give up more hits, strike out less batters, yet keep their ERA's a bit better. Garland isnt, he's a guy with a career GO/AO less than 1(actually in the 0.8 range). So, a flyball pitcher who doesnt K people and gives up a lot of hits is not a good play for NY.

[Dipre]

It was different for Wang since he was an extreme groundball pitcher. Extreme GB pitchers will give up more hits' date=' strike out less batters, yet keep their ERA's a bit better. Garland isnt, he's a guy with a career GO/AO less than 1(actually in the 0.8 range). So, a flyball pitcher who doesnt K people and gives up a lot of hits is not a good play for NY.[/quote']

 

Garland's career GB/FB is 1.29, Wang's is 2.70. While Wang is still much more a groundball pitcher, you shouldn't lie about Garland's stats.

[jacksonianmarch]

check the link Dipre.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4235

 

It cuts off his first few seasons, but gives you an idea where he has been recently

[Dipre]

check the link Dipre.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4235

 

It cuts off his first few seasons, but gives you an idea where he has been recently

 

Jon Garland Stats Fangraphs.

 

I'll believe Fangraphs.

[Mr Crunchy]

Gee I prayed and prayed and prayed and finally they brought back the man who made all our dreams possible, lets bow our heads in prayer that the Yankess brought back one of their biggest playoff failures in history for the 2010 campaign. Heres the NY Daily News version of the biggest disasters in Yankee history, Vasquez checks in at only #7...

 

Javier Vazquez

Acquired in trade with Expos on Dec. 16, 2003, for Nick Johnson, Randy Choate and Juan Rivera

At the time of the deal, Nick Johnson is still considered a future superstar by Yankee brass, but he's worth dealing for Vazquez, who's coming off a 241-strikeout season. His lone year in the Bronx fails to live up to that standard - as 150 Ks and a 4.91 ERA can attest - but he earns all-time bust status in the '04 ALCS against the Red Sox. Vazquez twice enters ballgames in relief of Kevin Brown. He manages to win a blowout despite a poor effort in Game 3 but walks five and allows three earned runs in two innings in Game 7, failing to stop the bleeding as the Bosox triumph.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/big_apple_baseballs_most_disastrous_pickups/big_apple_baseballs_most_disastrous_pickups.html#ixzz0aWXpJuEK

Gee I never knew the Yanks purchased Kei Igawa for a mere 20sumthin million either.

How does Brian Cashman still have a job? I couldve offered Sabbathia Texeira and Burnett the same money Cashman did and I wouldnt be as expensive and now they dump Cabrerra for this s*** bag?

They never get it in NY, they stumble around and pay thru the ass but they still dont get it.

[Dipre]

Jon Garland Stats Fangraphs.

 

I'll believe Fangraphs.

 

Mlb.com agrees with fangraphs:

 

Jon Garland: 1.18 career GB/FB%.

 

Wang: 2.34 career GB/FB%.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/12/yankees_counter.html

 

Lol at Jacko and others who really believed the Yankees would lower their payroll to roughly $185 million. They will likely open the season again north of $200 million

[yankees228]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/12/yankees_counter.html

 

Lol at Jacko and others who really believed the Yankees would lower their payroll to roughly $185 million. They will likely open the season again north of $200 million

 

The problem is that the Yankees never said they would lower their payroll to $185 million. That was purely speculation by Buster Olney after the Yankees organization meetings. Brian Cashman had never said what the budget was, all he has ever said was that they had a number, and it was less than last year's payroll. It's one thing for you not to remember the source of a quote, but it's really too bad that boston.com is going to insinuate the Yankees, in any way, have lied, when they haven't.

[riverside sluggers]

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/04/yankees-reportedly-looking-to-cut-payroll/

 

Correction, according to lohud, it came from ESPN. Not boston.com

[yankees228]

Also, what a horrendous article, for another reason. The Yankees, from the beginning of the offseason (and even after the Pettitte signing), have said they wanted to address three issues.

 

1. Outfield

2. Designated Hitter

3. Starting Pitching

 

It's almost comical that what is supposed to be a reputable source would simply ignore this, and just claim that this was a counter move, as if the Yankees only traded for Vazquez because the Red Sox signed Lackey. I don't know much about boston.com, but judging by this article, they should probably stick to writing about the local teams.

[yankees228]

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/04/yankees-reportedly-looking-to-cut-payroll/

 

Correction, according to lohud, it came from ESPN. Not boston.com

 

I never said it came from boston.com. I said it came from Buster Olney, not the Yankees. If you look at any quotes from people in the know, whether it's Cashman or Hal Steinbrenner, they keep toeing the same line. They have a number, they plan on sticking by that number, and it's less than last year. They have said nothing about a specific number. That is either Olney speculating (which I believe I read in tweet), or some anonymous source within the Yankees' organization. Lets stick to the facts.

[yankees228]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/yankees-cutting-payroll.html

 

Read the tweets in this post. It is so clearly, little more than speculation.

[Plumpamania]

Personally I welcome back Javier to New York, as a bust in any major game (please review Ozzie's comments as well as Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS)...He's a flyball / strike out pitcher who will get destroyed in the new Yankee Stadium. In 2004 his K's were down playing in the AL East and that was even before Tampa Bay started to excel. Vazquez will be a bigger bust this year than he was in 2004. /congrats.

[Dipre]

Personally I welcome back Javier to New York' date=' as a bust in any major game (please review Ozzie's comments as well as Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS)...He's a flyball / strike out pitcher who will get destroyed in the new Yankee Stadium. In 2004 his K's were down playing in the AL East and that was even before Tampa Bay started to excel. Vazquez will be a bigger bust this year than he was in 2004. /congrats.[/quote']

 

Javier Vasquez is not a flyball pitcher. He's a GB/K pitcher who's homer prone because he throws too many meatballs looking for K's.

 

His career GB/FB is 0.98, meaning he has induced almost as many groundballs as flyouts. I believe his HR/FB to be a more telling stattistic, since it's usually hovering around the 10-11% mark, and that's not very good.

[Imperial59]

Take a look at the numbers for Vazquez in the NL and AL. His WHIP is .02 points higher in the AL. His H/9 is identical and his K/9 is identical' date=' but his ERA is nearly a half a run per 9IP higher. I dunno, with those peripherals, I expect some big things here[/quote']

 

Did you seriously just make those numbers up? His WHIP last year in the NL dropped by 0.20 points, not .02 points compared to his AL averages over 4 years. It dropped by more like 0.30 points compared to his last year in the AL. Either way, that's a HUGE difference.

 

His H/9 dropped from 9.2 to 7.4 when he went to the NL last year. His K/9 jumped up more than a K/9 (more than 30 of his strikeouts last year came against pitchers). And his BB/9 dropped from 2.6 to 1.8.

 

His peripherals in the AL vs. his peripherals in the NL are like night and day.

[Imperial59]

BTW' date=' this deal gives us the best rotation in the AL IMO. 4 guys who should reasonably give 200IP with one giving an ace performance, two giving a #2 type performance, and Pettitte slotting back in the #3 range. The more I think about it, the more I like this deal and cannot wait for the season to start. Its hard to say that we arent the odds on favorites for 2010[/quote']

 

You're a trip...

 

You've got AJ Burnett, Joba Chamberlain and a 38 year old Andy Pettitte in your rotation and you're talking about how durable your rotation is

 

That's ridiculous, even by your standards.

[jacksonianmarch]

4 guys in the rotation have gotten in the 190+ IP range for 2 seasons in a row. How durable is Boston's rotation again?

[jacksonianmarch]

Did you seriously just make those numbers up? His WHIP last year in the NL dropped by 0.20 points, not .02 points compared to his AL averages over 4 years. It dropped by more like 0.30 points compared to his last year in the AL. Either way, that's a HUGE difference.

 

His H/9 dropped from 9.2 to 7.4 when he went to the NL last year. His K/9 jumped up more than a K/9 (more than 30 of his strikeouts last year came against pitchers). And his BB/9 dropped from 2.6 to 1.8.

 

His peripherals in the AL vs. his peripherals in the NL are like night and day.

 

His career peripherals between NL and AL. Not his 2009 numbers. Those were significant outliers.

[Dipre]

4 guys in the rotation have gotten in the 190+ IP range for 2 seasons in a row. How durable is Boston's rotation again?

 

You've got AJ Burnett in your rotation.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

[jacksonianmarch]

He's reached 200IP for 2 yrs in a row and 3 of the last 5 seasons.

[Imperial59]

His career peripherals between NL and AL. Not his 2009 numbers. Those were significant outliers.

 

And where are you getting his career numbers in the NL?

[Dipre]

His career peripherals between NL and AL. Not his 2009 numbers. Those were significant outliers.

 

Javier Vasquez career AL/NL peripherals:

 

 

WHIP H/9 BB/9 K/9 SO/BB HR/9 ERA+

 

AL 1.258 8.9 2.5 8.1 3.58 1.2 102

 

NL 1.238 8.9 2.3 8.1 3.29 1.1 110

[Dipre]

He's reached 200IP for 2 yrs in a row and 3 of the last 5 seasons.

 

So his past injury history is simply forgotten because of two years in a row?

 

Not to mention the maddening inconsistency.

[Imperial59]

He's reached 200IP for 2 yrs in a row and 3 of the last 5 seasons.

 

And how many times throughout his 11 year career has he gone 3 seasons in a row without getting hurt?

 

I'll save you time - 0.

[jacksonianmarch]

How many times had he gone 2 seasons in a row without getting hurt. Maybe, just maybe, he's turned the corner.

[Dipre]

And how many times throughout his 11 year career has he gone 3 seasons in a row without getting hurt?

 

I'll save you time - 0.

 

Also, how old is Andy Pettite again?

[Dipre]

How many times had he gone 2 seasons in a row without getting hurt. Maybe' date=' just maybe, he's turned the corner.[/quote']

 

At 32?

 

With his mechanics?

 

If that's what you want to believe, then suit yourself.

[jacksonianmarch]

it's impossible to say. Prior to 2008, he was an injury machine. But almost all of them stemmed from his elbow. He had TJ, then had scar tissue issues. Since those seemed to pass, he's been healthy as a horse.