Thanks for the memories, Johnny Damon

[26 to 6]

Johnson will hit 20. Granderson will hit 35. The Yankee defense has improved.

 

If I was the Yankees, I'd go get Damon for one year, 12 million and move Melky to the Cubs for a bar of soap.

Why's is gotta be Melky? :dunno: Why can't it be Gardner? I think Melky has more value than Gardner. The only thing Gardner has a real edge on him is speed, and maybe a very slight edge in defense.

 

The Cubs would definitely take Melky off your hands. They're looking for a CF. It'd be kind of funny if you somehow got Jeremy Papelbon for him. One brother on the Sox, the other on the Yankees. Drama.

I'll pass on JerPap. You think the Cubs have interest in Gardner? There has been reported interest in both of them, though I don't know what the Cubs preference would be, if any.

 

First of all, the fact that you think Cervelli is better than Molina defensively shows you honestly know nothing about baseball. You honestly are comparing Cervelli to Molina? You're completely, utterly, inconceivably, amazingly confused. Please refrain from debating the Yankees with me unless you recant this statement.

I agree. Cervellis is an above average to very good defensive catcher. Jose Molina is a GREAT defensive catcher. Considered by some to have been the best defensive catcher in the AL, and considered by many others to be one of. I don't think the dropoff is too dramatic between the two. Cervelli has shown that he can handle the ball back there ()

 

Losing Molina really isn't going to hurt us. And if you're gonna refer to Burnett's success with Molina, that's too bad for Burnett. He gets payed enough money that he should make it work with whoever is behind the plate. If he can't pitch well with either Posada or Cervelli, he shouldn't be pitching.

[Gom]

You obviously dont watch the games as much as you say. There is not much more to say about that. Not much more at all. Your love affair with Molina is unfounded and completely and totally wrong. I do find it funny that the season Molina catches almost exclusively' date=' we dont even make the playoffs, and the yr he is almost entirely a backup, we win a WS. Do you find it ironic? Do you also find it funny how wrong you are when it comes to your assessment of players? You are wrong a lot. Actually, almost all the time.[/quote']

Next, you'll tell me that Tex is better than Pujols.

 

Find one person...just one person, who agrees that Cervelli is better than Molina defensively.

 

Ask anyone here.

 

The Yankees won in spite of Posada, not because of him. Have you noticed that outside of his first year becoming a full-time catcher in the playoffs, this is the first World Series he won?

 

The difference last year wasn't Molina, it was the Moellers and other crap we threw out there.

 

Have you realized that EVERY single pitcher who comes to the Yankees has a worse ERA?

 

You actually have the gall to announce that you think Cervelli is a better defensive catcher than Molina?

 

Go away. Seriously.

 

Find me a respectable poster here who will agree with you.

[yankees228]

Don't you think all those pitchers coming to the Yankees and having a worse ERA might have to do with the AL East?

[26 to 6]

Don't you think all those pitchers coming to the Yankees and having a worse ERA might have to do with the AL East?

Yeah really.

 

Gom, Molina is definitely better defensively, but he's not a difference maker or anything.

[yankees228]

Yeah really.

 

Gom, Molina is definitely better defensively, but he's not a difference maker or anything.

 

I think this post perfectly encapsulates the opinion of most people on this board.

[jacksonianmarch]

Next, you'll tell me that Tex is better than Pujols.

 

Find one person...just one person, who agrees that Cervelli is better than Molina defensively.

 

Ask anyone here.

 

The Yankees won in spite of Posada, not because of him. Have you noticed that outside of his first year becoming a full-time catcher in the playoffs, this is the first World Series he won?

 

The difference last year wasn't Molina, it was the Moellers and other crap we threw out there.

 

Have you realized that EVERY single pitcher who comes to the Yankees has a worse ERA?

 

You actually have the gall to announce that you think Cervelli is a better defensive catcher than Molina?

 

Go away. Seriously.

 

Find me a respectable poster here who will agree with you.

 

 

I said for 2009. Molina was not as good defensively in 09. He threw out only 28% of the runners stealing, his second lowest total of his career. He also allowed 3 passed balls in 357 inning caught, which was one of his worst percentages of his career. Cervelli, OTOH, threw out 43.5% of baserunners and had no passed balls. And the CERA you hold so dear to your heart was nearly identical 3.31 for Molina and 3.43 for Cervelli. Cervelli was the better catcher in 2009, arguing this point is stupid, unless you are going to use your standard useless drivel of watching the games. Which I did, probably more than you and from a better vantage point than you did. Watching the games from the bleachers tells you nothing. Watching the games on a 50 inch HD TV actually gives you a better view of the game. In other words, you are wrong, AGAIN

[26 to 6]

Watching the games on a 50 inch HD TV actually gives you a better view of the game. In other words, you are wrong, AGAIN

You're cool? :dunno: (btw, I'll take the bleacher seat over the 50" anytime)

 

You two would probably fight it out to the death if you had the chance, wouldn't you?

[Gom]

You're cool? :dunno: (btw, I'll take the bleacher seat over the 50" anytime)

 

You two would probably fight it out to the death if you had the chance, wouldn't you?

 

I have a 51 inch TV, lol.

 

Cervelli threw out more runners...how many attempts did he have?

 

Also...Cervelli had a higher cERA. Yet he was the better defensive catcher?

 

Go back to sleep dude. You wouldn't know a good defensive catcher unless Cashman shoved him up your ass.

[Gom]

I think this post perfectly encapsulates the opinion of most people on this board.

 

Watch the Yankees set the single season win mark when Posada is gone after 2011.

[yankees228]

I have a 51 inch TV, lol.

 

Cervelli threw out more runners...how many attempts did he have?

 

Also...Cervelli had a higher cERA. Yet he was the better defensive catcher?

 

Go back to sleep dude. You wouldn't know a good defensive catcher unless Cashman shoved him up your ass.

 

Holy s***, imagine if Cashman shoved Jose Molina up your ass? I can't take this stuff seriously anymore.

 

Gom, you think that Molina is an extremely important part of the Yankees. That's fine, and while I disagree, I respect that opinion. However, when you take that kind of extreme position, you just cannot justify (if you can ever justify it) talking down to people who disagree with your opinion.

[jacksonianmarch]

He can never justify any of his opinions. He's just another moron with a keyboard.

[Gom]

He can never justify any of his opinions. He's just another moron with a keyboard.

No? cERA shows Molina to be the best Yankee catcher. No doubt about it.

 

What possible argument can you have that Cervelli is better defensively than Molina? Runners thrown out? Are you serious?

 

I think Cervelli is a good defensive catcher. He's not in the same class as Molina.

 

Have you ever justified anything other than you'd like to have Cashman's babies?

 

Honestly, you're an idiot. I'm embarrassed to have you as a Yankee fan.

[jacksonianmarch]

So you think that a cERA difference of 0.1 is significant? Really? The CS% and the PB% dont matter? Oh, and Cervelli caught approximately 250 innings. Gom, you should go back to polluting the minds of sox fans. You are too dumb to refute anything with me.

[Gom]

So you think that a cERA difference of 0.1 is significant? Really? The CS% and the PB% dont matter? Oh' date=' and Cervelli caught approximately 250 innings. Gom, you should go back to polluting the minds of sox fans. You are too dumb to refute anything with me.[/quote']

 

Yes it is. Want to know why?

 

Because...get this...

 

Even with the worse percentage of throwing out runners, and passed balls...he had a lower ERA. Which means he did a better job behind the plate than you think. Wouldn't you think that a catcher, catching the same pitchers, would have a worse cERA if he had a worse CS% and a higher percentage of passed balls? Would that be a logical conclusion? Nah...not for you! USE YOUR HEAD.

 

He's the best in the AL when it comes to framing pitches. That, if you knew one iota about catching, is THE most important skill a catcher can have.

 

Honestly, tell me where been right with me. I've been calling out Posada on cERA...and let's see...I did it BEFORE this year...and BEFORE last year.

 

I only debated with you in this thread when you claimed Cervelli was better than Molina defensively. I honestly didn't think you could be more of an idiot...yet you surprise me all the time.

[Tyler Durden]

Have you wiped Cashman's jizz off your chin yet?

 

Yankees lost:

 

J. Molina

J. Damon

H. Matsui

P. Coke

B. Bruney

C. Wang

 

Yankees gained:

 

N. Johnson

C. Granderson

J. Hoffman

 

Now...considering who they lost, and who they gained, are they a better team than last year?

 

Absolutely not.

 

Is this a finished product?

 

No way.

 

So, as of now, they are worse then they were last year. I said it earlier..if they use the money they saved on say, Sheets and Wang, then I think they'd be a much better team. As of now, they are not.

 

As usual, your self-medicating is getting in the way of your thought process.

 

First of all. Who gives a s*** about Wang (we won the division and the World Series without him) or Burney, Coke, and Molina. (these 3 are easily replaced)

 

All that matters is we replaced Damon/Matsui with Granderson/Johnson. We we can make a valid argument that we improved ourselves with those moves.

[Tyler Durden]

OMG THE YANEKES BACKUP CATCHER NEXT YEAR MAY NOT BE AS GOOD AS JOSE MOLINA! OMG! WE HAVE NO SHOT!

[jacksonianmarch]

catcher's ERA is a meaningless stat. You continue to spout about it like's its a time honored important stat. Seriously, get back on the short bus, strap on your helmet, change your drool stained shirt and grab your binky.

[Keeper]

I'll pass on JerPap. You think the Cubs have interest in Gardner? There has been reported interest in both of them' date=' though I don't know what the Cubs preference would be, if any.[/quote']

 

I think they would be more interested in Melky, as Gardner is similar to a player they already have (Sam Fuld). Gardner's speed on the basepaths could be attractive to Hendry, though. Other than Theriot, the Cubs don't really have anyone who can steal bases.

[Gom]

catcher's ERA is a meaningless stat. You continue to spout about it like's its a time honored important stat. Seriously' date=' get back on the short bus, strap on your helmet, change your drool stained shirt and grab your binky.[/quote']

 

So a catcher's defensive prowess is measured by his offensive ability? Got it.

 

Look out next year. I hear Marte is a good hitter, so it will help him locate his fastball.

 

What kills you is that you simply don't know how to value a player, and others do.

[diony]

I'd take Cervelli over Molina anytime. He at least is better offensively, he's younger, cost controlled and is above average defensively with great arm, he's fast for a catcher and fits the "getting younger more athletic" thing.

 

But, if Posada gets hurt, he won't hit at all. Between him and Molina, I'd say he's the lesser of two evils.

[Gom]

I'd take Cervelli over Molina anytime. He at least is better offensively, he's younger, cost controlled and is above average defensively with great arm, he's fast for a catcher and fits the "getting younger more athletic" thing.

 

But, if Posada gets hurt, he won't hit at all. Between him and Molina, I'd say he's the lesser of two evils.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. However, I think catching is under-appreciated. The most important player in any game is the pitcher. The one who can affect the play the most is the pitcher, followed by the catcher.

 

The Yankees don't need offense. They won this year because of pitching. So why not maximize their pitching ability by signing the best defensive catcher and game-caller in baseball [or at least in the top 3]?

 

It's like buying a Lamborghini and using cheap gas. Sure it will run, but it won't be optimal. That's what you get with Posada behind the plate. Molina can't play a full-season, but a mix of him and Posada is fantastic.

 

Also, I'd understand if Cervelli was the catcher of the future. He's not. From what I hear, it's Montero and Romine. So why not trade Cervelli for an arm, or an OF, or whatever? A decent prospect, as he won't be on the team in two years anyways? Why not live with Jose for two years, and get rid of the tandem in 2011 [or next year if we can get Mauer]?

[Tyler Durden]

These posts about Cervelli and Molina are hilarious. Not that it really matters much, but Cervelli is a better player. He can do anything Molina can do on defense, if you watched the guy play, you would know that. Plus he runs better and is a better hitter.

 

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2009/06/new_york_yankees_backup_catche.html

 

While the offense has surprised even Girardi, Cervelli's play behind the plate has been steady, as expected. Cervelli was chosen as the best defensive catcher in the Yankees' system for the past three seasons. In the majors, he has thrown out six of 16 base stealers (38 percent).

 

Starting pitcher A.J. Burnett praised Cervelli's game-calling. He said he shook Cervelli off just once or twice.

 

"He's energetic," Burnett said. "He has a lot of fun. He has conviction in every pitch he puts down. To be on the same page like we were for the first time ever, that's impressive on his part."

 

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/as-cervelli-heads-to-minors-posada-appreciates-his-work/

 

Cervelli batted .269 in 25 games, with the June 24 homer that sparked the Yankees’ 12-2 surge. More important, he developed a strong rapport with the pitchers in a very short time, with a relentless and earnest demeanor that belied his inexperience.

[ORS]

There will be 5 sheep comments, 7 watch the games comments, 3 strawmen, and 4 declarations of victory in the this thread.

 

Enjoy.

[Emmz]

There will be 5 sheep comments, 7 watch the games comments, 3 strawmen, and 4 declarations of victory in the this thread.

 

Enjoy.

 

Have no idea who you're referencing, but I'm gonna guess it's a guy with a three letter handle, starting with "G" and ending with "m". If not, then just forget what I said.

[Dipre]

There will be 5 sheep comments, 7 watch the games comments, 3 strawmen, and 4 declarations of victory in the this thread.

 

Enjoy.

 

He'll be proven wrong before every victory declaration too.

[26 to 6]

You're entitled to your opinion. However, I think catching is under-appreciated. The most important player in any game is the pitcher. The one who can affect the play the most is the pitcher, followed by the catcher.

 

The Yankees don't need offense. They won this year because of pitching. So why not maximize their pitching ability by signing the best defensive catcher and game-caller in baseball [or at least in the top 3]?

 

It's like buying a Lamborghini and using cheap gas. Sure it will run, but it won't be optimal. That's what you get with Posada behind the plate. Molina can't play a full-season, but a mix of him and Posada is fantastic.

 

Also, I'd understand if Cervelli was the catcher of the future. He's not. From what I hear, it's Montero and Romine. So why not trade Cervelli for an arm, or an OF, or whatever? A decent prospect, as he won't be on the team in two years anyways? Why not live with Jose for two years, and get rid of the tandem in 2011 [or next year if we can get Mauer]?

He may not be the catcher of the future, but I can see Cervelli sticking here for a while. You can never have enough depth, especially on the mound and behind the plate. If all 3 catchers pan out in 3-4 years you could have Romine starting, Cervelli backing up, and Montero DHing/emergency catching. Sounds pretty nasty to me. If Romine doesn't work out keeping Cervelli is that much more important as we would need a good defensive catcher to backup Montero. Either way, I think the 3-headed catching monster we have is a great thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

So a catcher's defensive prowess is measured by his offensive ability? Got it.

 

Look out next year. I hear Marte is a good hitter, so it will help him locate his fastball.

 

What kills you is that you simply don't know how to value a player, and others do.

 

If others know how to value a player, then why are you the only one touting Molina? Cervelli had better metrics at everything he can potentially control. He's younger, and he's a better hitter and runner. Its not even close