Mike Cameron signs with Red Sox

[Dipre]

The Sox offered him a 4 year contract. His health has nothing to do with 5 years vs. 4.

 

As for his lack of defense, that's BS - as you know.

 

You may consider it so, but my eyes and the stats tell me otherwise. He hasn't been the same after his knee surgery. You choose to believe that his health is not an issue, but that's your problem, not mine. I say he's a full-time DH by 2012.

[DrewDaGreat]

why?

[Dipre]

why?

 

Contrary to what Rhet may tell you, Bay has been extremely limited in the field since his knee surgery in '07, the Sox FO fears that since he has gotten progressively worse playing the field (even while playing half his games at Fenway), his skills will erode to the point where he will not be able to take the field on a consistent basis through the duration of a 5-year contract, and i agree with them.

[rhet]

What are you talking about? Of course it's a sticking point for Bay. They've been pushing for at least five years in every discussion they've had thus far. Hell they're asking for 6 years right now, so what makes you think they'd settle for four years at a higher number?

 

I don't blame him for going big but I don't agree that he's deserving of it either.

 

Bay showed his liability as both a hitter and fielder last season, and it was most evident during his major slump in the middle of the year when the Sox needed him the most. Is he worth four years and $60-65 million? Hell yes. But 5 years and $75-80 million? No thanks... risk vs reward just isn't there. That extra season and $15-20 million may not seem like much, but it is when you look at who the Sox have coming up through their system and the kind of production we can expect at that point in Bay's career.

 

There are other outfieders with expensive long term contracts on this team who go into ungodly slumps too. Yet all we ever hear about is their good months.

 

Bay was the best offensive weapon on a team which lacks enough offense to compete for a championship. Downgrading at that position means we better come up with a big bat at another.

[rhet]

Contrary to what Rhet may tell you' date=' Bay has been extremely limited in the field since his knee surgery in '07, the Sox FO fears that since he has gotten progressively worse playing the field (even while playing half his games at Fenway), his skills will erode to the point where he will not be able to take the field on a consistent basis through the duration of a 5-year contract, and i agree with them.[/quote']

 

If they're willing to go 4 on a bum knee, they could structure a 5th year and an out if the knee is a problem. That's what they did for Drew's shoulder.

[Dipre]

If they're willing to go 4 on a bum knee' date=' they could structure a 5th year and an out if the knee is a problem. That's what they did for Drew's shoulder.[/quote']

 

You should consider the possibility that Bay wants 5 guaranteed, period. Why "structure" for Boston when you can get them guaranteed elsewhere?

[yankees228]

If they feel confident in giving Bay four years, a team with the financial flexibility that the Red Sox enjoy should probably spring for that fifth year, if that's what it would take. Because they're reluctant to do so leads me to believe that they think even four years is a stretch.

[Dipre]

If they feel confident in giving Bay four years' date=' a team with the financial flexibility that the Red Sox enjoy should probably spring for that fifth year, if that's what it would take. Because they're reluctant to do so leads me to believe that they think even four years is a stretch.[/quote']

 

Since we don't know the actual details of the Sox' offer, the contract might not have secured the fourth year, so you are indeed correct.

[yankees228]

Since we don't know the actual details of the Sox' offer' date=' the contract might not have secured the fourth year, so you are indeed correct.[/quote']

 

Right, and regardless of whether or not they guaranteed the fourth year, it's likely, in my opinion, that they felt four years was a stretch. If this was indeed the case, you couldn't have realistically expected them to throw in another guaranteed year.

[Red Foreman]

The signing of Cameron solves one problem the Sox were roundly and loudly criticized for.

 

If you know what I'm talking about, do you think it was a factor?

 

 

 

I doubt it was a factor if we are thinking of the same thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

WEEI chimed in on this in the am. But, anyone notice how both of these moves were made on the same day? Imagine if Lackey spurned them and their major addition was Cameron to LF. The masses would be going ballistic.

[Dojji]

The signing of Cameron solves one problem the Sox were roundly and loudly criticized for.

 

Let's go ahead and say it. If you're going to suggest it, you're thinking it, so it doesn't do us any favors to try the PC dance.

 

Yes, this team is fully capable of signing a black man. Not that there was really any doubt.

[CoachC.]

An interesting point brought up on the Dale & Holley show on WEEI.

 

What do you think of Ellsbury playing LF and being left-handed and when he chases a ball into the corner he will have to turn around a pivot to throw the ball back towards the infield?

[Dojji]

No more awkward than our righthanded first baseman making the cross-diamond throw or diving for a screamer down the line, I'd say. Plenty of righthanded RF's out there do the same thing.

[Dipre]

No more awkward than our righthanded first baseman making the cross-diamond throw or diving for a screamer down the line' date=' I'd say. [b']Plenty of righthanded RF's out there do the same thing.[/b]

 

Jeff Francouer (Arguably the best defensive RF in the game) comes to mind.

[Dojji]

So do Al Kaline, Roberto Clemente, and Dwight Evans, considered by some to be the three best right defensive fielders in the history of baseball.

[Dipre]

So do Al Kaline' date=' Roberto Clemente, and Dwight Evans, considered by some to be the three best right defensive fielders in the history of baseball.[/quote']

 

Vlad in his prime. He didn't look good playing, but boy, he could go get it.

[CoachC.]

The callers question was a left handers ability to play the monster.

[Dipre]

The callers question was a left handers ability to play the monster.

 

Why would it be a problem? I really don't see it, specially after seeing Damon play the monster a couple times.

[Dojji]

Our last full-time LHT LF was Troy O'Leary. How was he at the wall?

[BSN07]

Our last full-time LHT LF was Troy O'Leary. How was he at the wall?

 

I was going to say this too. But from my personal memory I believe he played well. Average at the least. But like I said this is personal memory, I was a teenager I believe when he was roaming in LF lol

[jacksonianmarch]

Lets just say this, the Lackey signing made this deal a lot sweeter. He is a massive downgrade in offensive production for a team that really had offensive identity issues at the end of last season.

[Dipre]

Lets just say this' date=' the Lackey signing made this deal a lot sweeter. He is a massive downgrade in offensive production for a team that really had offensive identity issues at the end of last season.[/quote']

 

A certain 1B can certainly help fix those identity issues.

[BSN07]

A certain 1B can certainly help fix those identity issues.

 

This is what I'm thinking. Maybe not this off season, but I can see the Sox dangling Buchholz for a bat now. But if they stand pat with what they have now, they should be competitive in the AL.

[jacksonianmarch]

Their pitching wasnt their biggest problem when Bay left.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

This is what I'm thinking. Maybe not this off season' date=' but I can see the Sox dangling Buchholz for a bat now. But if they stand pat with what they have now, they should be competitive in the AL.[/quote']

Would much rather see Kelly/Westmoreland/et al go for Gonzalez (or Cabrera) than Buchholz.

 

Best case scenario, Beckett does sign that extension, Buchholz continues to improve, and our rock solid top 3 becomes a rock solider top 4. Since I have a hard time seeing Buchholz NOT continue to improve and be a pretty respectable pitcher by season's end, the worst case scenario is that a deal with Beckett doesn't get done, and it's not the end of the world if we can't hold on to him, since we'd still have a pretty good top 3 with Lester, Lackey, and Buchholz.

 

Isn't Westmoreland supposed to be another Ellsbury anyways?

[ORS]

Lets just say this' date=' the Lackey signing made this deal a lot sweeter. He is a massive downgrade in offensive production for a team that really had offensive identity issues at the end of last season.[/quote']

Time will tell. I don't expect the Hermida/Cameron platoon to approach the Bay level of performance, but it shouldn't be ruled out as a possibility. And, even if it doesn't they've upgraded elsewhere. Their biggest weakness last year, IMO, was the blackholes sitting in the 7-9 spots so often. I think they are much deeper this year, which I prefer, at the cost of being less impressive in the middle.

[jacksonianmarch]

Your lineup at the end of the yr was...

 

1. Ellsbury CF

2. Pedroia 2B

3. Martinez C

4. Youkilis 1B

5. Bay LF

6. Ortiz DH

7. Lowell 3B

8. Drew RF

9. Gonzalez SS

 

The only hole I see is in the 9 hole, and that doesnt change much with Scutaro.

[ORS]

And, contrary to what you posted, the offense wasn't a problem from 8/1 on. They didn't lack offensive "identity", whatever the f*** that means. From the start to 7/31, they were .789 OPS team that scored 5.15 R/G. From 8/1 on, they were an .833 OPS team that scored 5.77 R/G.

 

Bay was a big part of that hitting 1.023, creating approximately 43 runs (103 TB * .392 OBP). Cameron and Hermida should platoon for about 30 RC (.360 OBP * 80 TB ). Scutaro should make up for what they lose there. With him, they will resemble the 2nd half offense more than the 1st half offense.

[Imperial59]

Lets just say this' date=' the Lackey signing made this deal a lot sweeter. He is a massive downgrade in offensive production for a team that really had offensive identity issues at the end of last season.[/quote']

 

The "massive downgrade in offensive production" is more than made up by the massive upgrade in defensive production. If you don't believe me, believe WAR. Cameron's had a better WAR than Bay in each of the last 3 years.

 

And what exactly are "offensive identity issues"? Last I checked the Sox scored the third most runs in baseball last year.