The John Lackey Thread

[a700hitter]

Ill be content if they traded Clay' date=' and filled the 5 hole with Wakefield and sign a[b'] high risk/high reward pitcher[/b]

 

Stop it, just stop it!! Have any of those worked out for us in recent memory?

 

BTW: Why is this still not final?

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/12/15/red_sox_zeroing_in_on_5_year_deal_for_lackey/

[Dipre]

Gonzales is younger than Tex' date=' and has seen year-to-year improvement while playing in the hellhole at Petco, and if you use OPS+ (which accounts for park factors), Gonzales' 166 OPS+ blows Tex's 149 out of the water.[/quote']

 

Also, before Jacko can give me the line about how difficult Fenway is on lefties (although i don't believe it's tougher than Petco) here's an interesting thing to note:

 

MOST OPPOSITE-FIELD HRs, LEFT-HANDED HITTERS, 2009

 

Source: Inside Edge

Adrian Gonzalez 21

Joe Mauer 16

Ryan Howard 15

Jim Thome 14

 

Adrian Gonzales' hit tracker:

 

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/parks/Gonzalez_Adrian_2009_scatter.jpg

 

He sprays balls to left like it's a hobby. His swing is perfect for Fenway.

[riverside sluggers]

Stop it, just stop it!! Have any of those worked out for us in recent memory?

 

BTW: Why is this still not final?

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/12/15/red_sox_zeroing_in_on_5_year_deal_for_lackey/

 

They are filling the 5 spot. And with Wake manning a spot, you need insurance. He's gone on the DL in August the past 3 seasons

 

If such a trade goes down and they dont sign one of those guys, the 6 man would essentially be Boof Bonser

[Gom]

First of all, you are f***ing psycho if you think the red sox go out and get AGon and Lackey while NY just stands pat not reinforcing the rotation or filling the hole in LF. Psycho.

Halfway there Champ...and looking more and more like they are getting Gonzo. Funny thing, our only saving grace is the fact that a former Red Sox is running the show in SD, and he knows the Red Sox system as well as anyone.

[MNSoxChief102]

Great post dipre... that graph really tells the tale. Theo needs to get on the phone now and make that deal happen. To hell with having Buch as a 5th starter... they're a dime a dozen anyway and we can always call up Bowden if need be. Toss in Reddick, Anderson, and Doubront and call it a day.

[SoxSport]

They can go in a number of directions at 1B/3B now, and there are pros/cons with each. I've read that Lowell's defense at 3B was better in September, so maybe he can last another year-though that thumb injury could be a problem. He can still hit--for sure, and could also be a platoon at DH if Ortiz struggles again. Then you have Beltre, and the question is the inflated Boras money there--along with his low OBP. These options would keep Youks at 1B--probably his best defensive position. Beltre would give them their best defensive infield--and they seem to be moving towards defense and pitching with Lackey and Cameron.

 

Then you have options where Youks moves to 3B--signing a Johnson or trading for AdGon to play 1B. AdGon gives them a cleanup hitter (though Youks has shown he can also do the job) at low salary, but costs them Buchholz and prospects. That takes some off their pitching, but Buchholz' is still not proven as a #1-3 starter. Not yet.

 

So which of these looks most attractive to Epstein?

[Dipre]

Great post dipre... that graph really tells the tale. Theo needs to get on the phone now and make that deal happen. To hell with having Buch as a 5th starter... they're a dime a dozen anyway and we can always call up Bowden if need be. Toss in Reddick' date=' Anderson, and Doubront and call it a day.[/quote']

 

Any deal involving Gonzales is going to have either Kelly or Westmoreland in it.

 

Joyer knows the farm system as well as anyone, so he'll take quality over quantity. I cannot stress this enough.

[MNSoxChief102]

Any deal involving Gonzales is going to have either Kelly or Westmoreland in it.

 

Joyer knows the farm system as well as anyone, so he'll take quality over quantity. I cannot stress this enough.

 

Tis true... sigh

 

Can't decide who I'd be more upset over losing... Kelly or Westmoreland. Both are going to be studs sooner or later.

[Gom]

You've become a much better poster since your self-imposed exile. Kudos to you Dipre.

[a700hitter]

Also, before Jacko can give me the line about how difficult Fenway is on lefties (although i don't believe it's tougher than Petco) here's an interesting thing to note:

 

MOST OPPOSITE-FIELD HRs, LEFT-HANDED HITTERS, 2009

 

Source: Inside Edge

Adrian Gonzalez 21

Joe Mauer 16

Ryan Howard 15

Jim Thome 14

 

Adrian Gonzales' hit tracker:

 

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/parks/Gonzalez_Adrian_2009_scatter.jpg

 

He sprays balls to left like it's a hobby. His swing is perfect for Fenway.

This is beautiful.

[a700hitter]

They are filling the 5 spot. And with Wake manning a spot, you need insurance. He's gone on the DL in August the past 3 seasons

 

If such a trade goes down and they dont sign one of those guys, the 6 man would essentially be Boof Bonser

I'm all for getting another pitcher nad sending Wake out to pasture with a plaque in the Red Sox HOF, but I'd rather they get a mediocre #5 who is healthy and can take the ball every 5 days, rather than a retread who will likely be on the DL when you need him. We have had no success with those projects, none. I'd rather re-sign Byrd as Wake insurance.

[Dipre]

Tis true... sigh

 

Can't decide who I'd be more upset over losing... Kelly or Westmoreland. Both are going to be studs sooner or later.

 

Westmoreland. I love his potential, but Kelly's ability as a pitcher is legit, and it's easier to acquire a good OF than a #3 pitcher (and IMO, that may be selling low on Kelly based on potential.)

[MNSoxChief102]

Westmoreland. I love his potential' date=' but Kelly's ability as a pitcher is legit, and it's easier to acquire a good OF than a #3 pitcher (and IMO, that may be selling low on Kelly based on potential.)[/quote']

 

Yeah I tend to agree. Westmoreland is going to be awesome but Kelly's potential is otherworldly from everything I've seen and read. Got to give up talent to get it I guess.

 

Then again, getting a legit franchise bat like Gonzo in return is worth moving him. Especially with the contract numbers and years of control he brings.

[Teddyballgame10]

Yeah I tend to agree. Westmoreland is going to be awesome but Kelly's potential is otherworldly from everything I've seen and read. Got to give up talent to get it I guess.

 

Then again, getting a legit franchise bat like Gonzo in return is worth moving him. Especially with the contract numbers and years of control he brings.

 

How do you know Westmoreland is going to be "awesome"? Kelly is nothing but potential. Sure they may both go on to have a few all star seasons but they also may be busts. You were right the second time we get a guaranteed stud in Gonzo who is young and cheap. Kelly and Westmoreland for Gonzo I would do in a heartbeat.

[riverside sluggers]

Sox gave up 2 prospects to Montreal for Pedro... Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr

[Dipre]

How do you know Westmoreland is going to be "awesome"? Kelly is nothing but potential. Sure they may both go on to have a few all star seasons but they also may be busts. You were right the second time we get a guaranteed stud in Gonzo who is young and cheap. Kelly and Westmoreland for Gonzo I would do in a heartbeat.

 

Yeah but if you have the possibility of holding onto one, i'm sure you would. You need to take into context the fact that there's a reason why those two prospects are so coveted. It stops being hype when you're negotiating with someone who used to work for your organization. Hoyer's amount of interest in those two tells me they're pretty special kids.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

*both posts removed*

[MNSoxChief102]

How do you know Westmoreland is going to be "awesome"? Kelly is nothing but potential. Sure they may both go on to have a few all star seasons but they also may be busts. You were right the second time we get a guaranteed stud in Gonzo who is young and cheap. Kelly and Westmoreland for Gonzo I would do in a heartbeat.

 

I guess I should have said all signs indicate that Westmoreland will be awesome... sorry to have not put that disclaimer in there...

[Rdsxmbnt]

Sox gave up 2 prospects to Montreal for Pedro... Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr

 

The Mariners traded two prospects for Heathcliff Slocum

[Rdsxmbnt]

Basically there is no right answer as to when to deal prospects and when not to. For every deal where prospects flamed out and the other team got the 'proven star', there is another deal where the main piece was gone within a year or two and the prospects were key cost-controlled players for the next 6 years.

 

Personally I think if we have to give up Buchholz then Kelly/Westmoreland should be completely off limits. I don't need to describe what we have in Buchholz, but Kelly is 20yrs old and going to be pitching in AA and Westmoreland has five-tool superstar potential that hasn't been seen since Hanley graced us with his presence.

[Dipre]

Basically there is no right answer as to when to deal prospects and when not to. For every deal where prospects flamed out and the other team got the 'proven star', there is another deal where the main piece was gone within a year or two and the prospects were key cost-controlled players for the next 6 years.

 

Personally I think if we have to give up Buchholz then Kelly/Westmoreland should be completely off limits. I don't need to describe what we have in Buchholz, but Kelly is 20yrs old and going to be pitching in AA and Westmoreland has five-tool superstar potential that hasn't been seen since Hanley graced us with his presence.

 

This would be the ideal scenario, but i doubt it happens while dealing with Hoyer.

[jacksonianmarch]

You're trying to get a 28 yr old 1b who has shown light tower power, good OBP skills and a good glove who is also under control for 2 seasons at a massive discount. There is ZERO reason for Hoyer to actively try to deal this guy. You are going to have to blow him away. Fair trade value is out of the question here, it is going to have to be a deal of massive prospect proportions

[Dojji]

Which is the reason I'd really like to see Theo switch to trying to dig Miggy out of Detroit or Hanley out of Florida. Both of these teams have much more reason to deal those players than Hoyer has to deal Gonzo..

[Dipre]

You're trying to get a 28 yr old 1b who has shown light tower power' date=' good OBP skills and a good glove who is also under control for 2 seasons at a massive discount. There is ZERO reason for Hoyer to actively try to deal this guy. You are going to have to blow him away. Fair trade value is out of the question here, it is going to have to be a deal of massive prospect proportions[/quote']

 

He has already stated what he wants as the centerpiece of the deal, whatever opinions you, or any of us for that matter, have on the issue are irrelevant.

[jacksonianmarch]

and Theo is balking. I wonder why?

[Dipre]

Which is the reason I'd really like to see Theo switch to trying to dig Miggy out of Detroit or Hanley out of Florida. Both of these teams have much more reason to deal those players than Hoyer has to deal Gonzo..

 

Hoyer has every reason to trade A-Gon,he won't be able to retain him, and he can get maximum return on him now, it's also a given Hanley will command a similar package, so i don't see what you're getting at by mentioning him.

 

Agree on the Cabrera front.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cabrera is signed for a long time, and with the recent deals being made some of the financial burden has lifted. I doubt they are actively shopping him either since he's the center of their franchise

[Dipre]

and Theo is balking. I wonder why?

 

It wasn't going to happen because you can't deal Buch unless you have a pitcher of stature (Lackey) in the rotation besides Beckett and Lester.

 

Besides, the centerpiece is Buch plus ONE of West/Kelly. I've provided the link several times.

[Gom]

You have a much better chance of getting Cabrera. He would go to 1B for a year, then slowly slide to DH as Ortiz rides off into a PED-enhanced sunset.

[Dipre]

Cabrera is signed for a long time' date=' and with the recent deals being made some of the financial burden has lifted. I doubt they are actively shopping him either since he's the center of their franchise[/quote']

 

His contract is hamstringing that franchise. They will trade him if the price is right. There's a difference between what you want, and what makes sense.