Mike Lowell traded to Texas, Max Ramirez to Boston (Deal is off)

[WhiskeyBreath]

Branyan and Huff? Yuk!

 

Ditto. No thanks.

[Dojji]

That's about how I feel about Beltre, who has the lowest OBP of any of the guys we've been linked to or could be expected to inquire about.

[SCM33]

That's about how I feel about Beltre' date=' who has the lowest OBP of any of the guys we've been linked to or could be expected to inquire about.[/quote']

 

Me too.

[ridyag]

i wonder what dipre thinks about this.....HAHAHAHA

[Dojji]

Well Dipre's actually in a great position. He can pound Beltre to his heart's content while holding out for Adrian Gonzalez on the other side of the diamond. It's safe to say that this offseason suddenly got a lot better for at least one Dominican.

 

Youkilis' ability to play the hot corner is what allows that of course, and it's also exactly why we shouldn't settle for Adrian Beltre. I'd rather pick up a first baseman who's a better hitter than take the halfhearted, uncreative way out.

[msubulldogs21]

i wonder what dipre thinks about this.....HAHAHAHA

 

Why are you worried about this?

[RedSoxRooter]

if this is true then yes, I believe talksox scooped the boston globe. Nice!

[GWSoxFan]

They. Have. Alternatives. To. Beltre.

 

LaRoche, Branyan, I think Huff is still on the market, and, the guy they traded for plays 1B too and is borderline big league ready. That besides a couple trade possibilities worth pursuing -- we had a chance at Gaby Sanchez of the Marlins and might still have, and of course there's the Adrian Gonzalez wet dream.

 

I didn't say they didn't. I said if they want him, it would have been better to sign him before trading Lowell. I'd be surprised if Beltre isn't the plan though.

[a700hitter]

Who the hell is Max Ramirez! Could they be giving him the back up catcher's job, making Tek the starter again and VMart being the full time first baseman?

[stocker323]

Rosenthal says this thing might still blown up. Rangers concerned about Lowell's health, and I don't blame them.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Rosenthal's got it. It's not official yet, they've agreed to the terms of the deal. It's gonna take a day or so for everything to fall into place, medical records to be approved, and for the deal to be officially announced. You'll hear a lot more about it in the morning even if it's not official yet.

 

True, Lowell's hip could be a problem to get the deal done.

[SCM33]

Who the hell is Max Ramirez! Could they be giving him the back up catcher's job' date=' making Tek the starter again and VMart being the full time first baseman?[/quote']

 

I dont think Tek is the starter on any level. If they do decide to carry three catchers, I could see them splitting the time 1/3 between the three of them, using Vmart at 1B 2/3 the time he isnt catching with Max Ramirez spending 1/3 the time at 1B and Tek sitting 2/3 the time. This only works if they sign a big bat to play LF. If it sounds confusing, here it is:

 

C

V-Mart 1/3, Tek 1/3, Ramirez 1/3 for a total of 3/3

 

1B

V-Mart 2/3, Ramirez 1/3 for a total of 3/3

 

LF

Sign a big bat

 

3B

Youk fulltime, spelling guys at 1B.

 

 

assuming they think Ramirez is ready, thats a big assumption.

[a700hitter]

True' date=' Lowell's hip could be a problem to get the deal done.[/quote']Might they reject the trade because lowell has only 1 testicle?

[WhiskeyBreath]

Might they reject the trade because lowell has only 1 testicle?

 

Nah, Arod has passed a physical and we all know he has no sack.

[a700hitter]

Nah' date=' Arod has passed a physical and we all know he has no sack.[/quote']:lol:

[Dojji]

Rosenthal says this thing might still blown up. Rangers concerned about Lowell's health' date=' and I don't blame them.[/quote']

 

That's worth bearing in mind. I've seen trades get torpedoed even later in the process than this, so maybe we should be on our guard a bit more.

[SCM33]

That's worth bearing in mind. I've seen trades get torpedoed even later in the process than this' date=' so maybe we should be on our guard a bit more.[/quote']

 

This may be true, but its not like Lowells health hasnt been well documented. They saw/see something that they want regardless of his health. Its not like its been a secret. Youd think they would have ended discussions a lot sooner if they were worried about it.

[Dojji]

My guess is they want to check up on Lowell to confirm that he's going to be able to start the season. I doubt their standards are going to be exactingly high on this one -- Ramirez was more or less blocked anyway.

[example1]

I don't get this trade.

 

-It's not a salary dump

-They're not getting a good prospect. (He must be good defensively)

-And they gave up a pretty good bat (Albeit old and breaking down)

 

What am I missing. Must be another shoe to drop.

 

I hope this means the ink is wet on a contract with Beltre.

 

If this deal goes through they traded $12.5m and Mike Lowell for 6 years of a good catching prospect. Personally, I believe they will end up swinging Ramirez but I can see why he's valuable. I've read about Toronto wanting a catcher, and bet that including a guy like Ramirez instead of a younger, less-bat guy like Exposito, would make the difference in needing to include a Buchholz or a Kelly.

 

Theo basically turned Mike Lowell into another desireable piece of a potential trade. It was expensive at 12.5, but 6 years of a probable MLB regular catcher should be worth more than $12.5m.

 

I think Adrian Beltre is pretty much a given, unless there is an under-the-radar deal for another 3B or 1B.

 

Who the hell is Max Ramirez! Could they be giving him the back up catcher's job' date=' making Tek the starter again and VMart being the full time first baseman?[/quote']

 

I don't think so. VMart is entirely too valuable at C.

 

Maximiliano Ramirez has performed pretty poorly in two stints in AAA, but otherwise he's shown a high OBP and a good SLG for a catcher, generally getting about .400/.500/.900 between the other levels.

 

Before freaking out about the AAA thing, realize that he was injured last year and that his core skills (power and eye) seem to be very good. In 17 MLB games he's posted a .345 OBP with 2 HR and 6 BB. That .345 is despite an a .217 AVG.

 

In 2008 in 81 G, mostly at AA, he hit .347/.439/.628/1.067 with 19 HR.

In 507 MiLB G, he's been .299/.398/.486/.884.

 

I realize these numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt, but they are impressive nonetheless. They're better offensive numbers than all but the best Red Sox prospects have put up. He's already been traded twice for MLB players (Bob Wickman and Kenny Lofton) and is a converted 3B who may or may not have the chops to stay behind the plate.

 

I think this could be a great move for the Red Sox. It uses their financial muscle in an intelligent way to turn a seemingly unmoveable player for someone that another team may want, or who the Sox can use over the next few years.

[GWSoxFan]

I think Adrian Beltre is pretty much a given, unless there is an under-the-radar deal for another 3B or 1B.

 

I was thinking about this and considering that they pulled the trigger on the trade before signing Beltre. What about Jorge Cantu? I heard somewhere (I forget where) that the Marlins were really only looking for a middle of the rotation starter. I would assume that Junichi Tazawa right now fits that, and he only makes about a million dollars in 2010 and 2011. I wonder if a package of Tazawa plus one or two other lower prospects gets Cantu.

[example1]

I was thinking about this and considering that they pulled the trigger on the trade before signing Beltre. What about Jorge Cantu? I heard somewhere (I forget where) that the Marlins were really only looking for a middle of the rotation starter. I would assume that Junichi Tazawa right now fits that' date=' and he only makes about a million dollars in 2010 and 2011. I wonder if a package of Tazawa plus one or two other lower prospects gets Cantu.[/quote']

 

1. I don't expect them to move Tazawa. I imagine they don't want to trade Japanese players who sign with the Sox as FAs a year after they're hired. Especially not to Florida. It just seems more political than anything.

 

2. I like Beltre more than Cantu. Beltre is a tremendous fielder and he's got one of the two essential skills (OBP or SLG) with a pretty good SLG. If they flip Ramirez for Halladay without moving Buchholz (please do) then they will want to have the best possible infield defense, possibly at the expense of offensive value.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ramirez is a good piece to get back assuming he is healthy. He has always been older than the league, but most MiLB leagues he's been in, he's dominated. Has a very good 2008 that ended in a cup of coffee in the bigs, then 2009 saw him go completely off an offensive cliff in AAA. If Theo thinks he can get him back to his pre-2009 form, he could be very useful as a 25 yr old catcher. Now, initially, a couple yrs ago I had heard he was the best defensive catcher of the Texas trio, but there was significant talk of him moving to 1b for defensive reasons toward the end of this yr. Not sure why that is. We'll have to see, but he certainly is an intriguing option for the sox

[BSN07]

SI.com's Jon Heyman says Boston would send about $8-9MM to Texas in the deal

 

That's the latest, still a big chunk, but it's not the whole thing.

 

My initial reaction last night when the deal was first brought up was that the Sox could flip Ramirez in a Halladay deal. It makes sense and he is a good enough prospect that like exp1 said could help save the team Kelly and Buchholz.

 

I wouldn't mind Ramirez sticking around though either. But that would be two catchers with defensive ? that could end up at 1B/DH/3B(in Ramirez case).

 

I will also not be surprised if the Sox just sign Beltre.

 

I thank Lowell for what he gave to the Sox, and the Sox paid him well for it. I won't shed any tears when he leaves, but will always have respect for the man.

[Dojji]

Beltre is a tremendous fielder.

 

The guy we got rid of is one of the best "fielders" in history in third base.

 

Beltre is an athletic, flashy, badly overrated fielder. He IS above average, but check that error count before you go as far as "tremendous." Sure, bla bla errors bla bla overall measure of defense blah, but when a guy's a TREMENDOUS fielder he should be doing everything well. Right?

 

I'm not saying the guy sucks. He's a decent player. but he IS overrated.

[Cocos Disciples]

The guy we got rid of is one of the best "fielders" in history in third base.

 

Beltre is an athletic, flashy, badly overrated fielder. He IS above average, but check that error count before you go as far as "tremendous." Sure, bla bla errors bla bla overall measure of defense blah, but when a guy's a TREMENDOUS fielder he should be doing everything well. Right?

 

I'm not saying the guy sucks. He's a decent player. but he IS overrated.

 

Lowell isn't anywhere close to a good fielder. He's lost all mobility and is a liability in the field. He will be valuable for Texas as a DH in that park.

 

As for Beltre, I respectfully disagree. His UZR (gasp) and RF/9 were at the top of the league this year for 3B, which is a career trend.

 

If the Sox do end up signing Beltre, then the sum of the two deals ends up as Lowell and a bunch of cash for Beltre and Ramirez. I'd consider that a good deal.

[BoSox21]

I really, really hope there's more to this offseason than Adrian f***ing Beltre

[riverside sluggers]

Might they reject the trade because lowell has only 1 testicle?

 

If they get Beltre. They will essentially be trading a guy with 1 testicle for a guy who injured his testicles this past season

[NateGrey]

. smells like beltre and holliday might be a package .

[riverside sluggers]

The guy we got rid of is one of the best "fielders" in history in third base.

 

Beltre is an athletic, flashy, badly overrated fielder. He IS above average, but check that error count before you go as far as "tremendous." Sure, bla bla errors bla bla overall measure of defense blah, but when a guy's a TREMENDOUS fielder he should be doing everything well. Right?

 

I'm not saying the guy sucks. He's a decent player. but he IS overrated.

 

This past season, Lowell was one of the worst fielding 3rd basemen. I dont have a link, but I heard it on weei from Sean MacAdams

 

--------------------

Oh and to the posters who are saying Ramirez is too old to be in the minors. Food for thought, both Varitek and Posada really didnt get chance to start in the bigs until they were 27

[BoSox21]

His glove was fine but understandably, his range dropped off big time.