2009 World Series: Phillies @ Yankees

[yankees228]

Obviously I've never been to a YS playoff game' date=' but playoff games are awesome in general to be at. I was at 2004 ALCS Game 5 and 2007 World Series Game 1, those are probably my favorites (the WS game was a blowout, but it's my only World Series game).[/quote']

 

2004 ALCS Game 5...that f***ing short wall in right haha. That's a hell of a game to be at. What did you leave the park thinking that night, about their overall chances in the series?

[Cocos Disciples]

2004 ALCS Game 5...that f***ing short wall in right haha. That's a hell of a game to be at. What did you leave the park thinking that night' date=' about their overall chances in the series?[/quote']

 

It was crazy, the place was electric. I don't remember my thoughts exactly when leaving the park, but after the game I still didn't think the Sox had much of a shot, even with the "momentum".

[Gom]

I'm assuming you mean Justice in 2000?

Yes. My bad. Corrected.

[yankees228]

The memories I have of Justice in 1998 is the crowd chanting "Halle, Halle" at him, after he said the only way Yankee fans could be worse is if they came to the park with uzis.

[Gom]

Gom and I have had this discussion. He's as predictable as a book I've read 10 times.

 

He continually uses the hypocracy argument to prove that someone else's point was wrong. It is one of the most common logical fallacies one can find, and it shows that Gom isn't smart enough to know any better.

 

----

Person A: Smoking is bad

 

Person B: You smoke, so smoking isn't bad

----

 

Red Sox Fan: The Yankees have a competitive advantage that delegitimizes the impressiveness of their wins.

 

Gom: The Red Sox have a competitive advantage too, just like the Yankees do. Their wins would have to be delegitimized too. You won't delegitimize them, so the Yankees wins are legit.

 

 

It is a juvenile argument made by someone who doesn't know better. His argument would also require that everyone accept that the degree of competitive advantage (or 'buying of championships') is the same in both cases.

 

Even if we were to grant that premise (which nobody in their right mind would), it would in no way legitimize that behavior. The fact that he doesn't address this disadvantage in his argument tells me he has no interest in defending the behavior.

 

it is easier to call hypocracy like a 10 year old child than to actually argue that the Yankee don't have an enormous advantage that, as Kilo said, makes anything OTHER than winning the World Series an abject failure.

 

Because the Yankees exist, the case is not the same with the Sox (i.e, their payroll does not demand winning every year, because it isn't close to the same payroll as the Yankees).

 

The argument is really, really clear. Gom just doesn't get it.

 

That's fine, he can enjoy his false sense of superiority. I'm afraid of what would happen if that were taken away from him. It's all he has.

 

You dumbass. I admit readily that the Yankees have a financial advantage. Show me one time I ever said differently.

 

What I am saying is that you benefit as well. Not as much as we do..but you benefit as well. Over the last decade, you've had the second highest payroll in baseball. Guess what? You're the second most successful team in baseball. It's not really hard to figure out.

 

I get it...when the Yankees win, it's all about payroll. When the Red Sox win, it's smarts and guts and Theo and ********.

 

Tell that to the other 28 teams.

 

Idiot.

[Gom]

Yes. My bad. Corrected.

I'm not sure if you know what he said to reporters after the game, but I absolutely loved it. He told all the reporters that he just wished all of them could feel the way he felt when that ball left his bat. Pretty great stuff.

 

The only playoff game I've been to on your list is Boone, which was obviously spectacular. I'm not really sure which one was my favorite thought. I've seen them win the World Series once, which was in 1999. Game two of the 1996 ALDS was also great, watching them come back against Ken Hill, and seeing Jeter score on Palmer's bad throw.

 

Were you at either of the series clinchers in 2001? The emotion in that stadium those two nights was absolutely amazing.

 

Anyway, I know you didn't ask me lol, but I just really enjoy talking about this kind of thing, and I figured this was the appropriate time to look back on some of these games haha.

The funny thing about the Justice homer is I never saw it land. I was still wearing glasses at the time and my brother and I snuck in rum in this fake binoculars flask I owned. We were f***ing hammered, and we were in the left field bleachers. When Justice hit it, my brother turned to me to high five me and smacked me right in the face, sending my glasses three rows down. I'm looking for my glasses while everyone is celebrating, and then I had like twenty people looking with me. After the cheering died down, I found my glasses and raised them up like a trophy and our section started cheering.

 

It was funny, a spontaneous cheer breaks out two minutes after the homerun. They must have thought we were the "special" section. That's my favorite memory from that game.

[yankees228]

It was crazy' date=' the place was electric. I don't remember my thoughts exactly when leaving the park, but after the game I still didn't think the Sox had much of a shot, even with the "momentum".[/quote']

 

Yeah, I'm not a big momentum guy either, but I didn't feel the same way as you. Going into that series, I really felt like this was the Red Sox year. They had Schilling and Pedro at the top of the rotation, and they had obliterated the Angels, while the Yankees struggled to get past the Twins. Obviously, after the Yankees went up 3-0, I liked their chances. However, I can definitely say that I never assumed it was over, and, going into the ninth inning of game four, I was still nervous about the series.

 

I think, after they lost game five, and the ways in which they had lost the previous two, I just really felt it crumbling apart. Even though we had no idea what Schilling was going to have, I didn't like the Lieber's chances of beating the Red Sox twice, and I thought the Red Sox were better equipped to handle the situation created by the game three rain out.

 

Regardless, the 2003 and 2004 (minus the WS) postseasons were two of the best the sport has ever had. It's going to be really cool, years from now, to look back and say you attended games in those years.

[yankees228]

The funny thing about the Justice homer is I never saw it land. I was still wearing glasses at the time and my brother and I snuck in rum in this fake binoculars flask I owned. We were f***ing hammered, and we were in the left field bleachers. When Justice hit it, my brother turned to me to high five me and smacked me right in the face, sending my glasses three rows down. I'm looking for my glasses while everyone is celebrating, and then I had like twenty people looking with me. After the cheering died down, I found my glasses and raised them up like a trophy and our section started cheering.

 

It was funny, a spontaneous cheer breaks out two minutes after the homerun. They must have thought we were the "special" section. That's my favorite memory from that game.

 

Haha, that's a great story. You didn't have the right field bleacher tickets at that time?

 

My dad was at that game, said it was the loudest he ever heard the stadium.

[example1]

You dumbass. I admit readily that the Yankees have a financial advantage. Show me one time I ever said differently.

 

What I am saying is that you benefit as well. Not as much as we do..but you benefit as well. Over the last decade, you've had the second highest payroll in baseball. Guess what? You're the second most successful team in baseball. It's not really hard to figure out.

 

I get it...when the Yankees win, it's all about payroll. When the Red Sox win, it's smarts and guts and Theo and ********.

 

Tell that to the other 28 teams.

 

Idiot.

 

Get under your skin there Gom? Sure looks like it.

 

You never said the Yankees don't have a financial advantage. You simply negate the size of that advantage and also deflect any discussion about whether this has an impact on the impressiveness of their accomplishments.

 

Anytime someone tries to point out that it makes Yankees championships seem less impressive, you point out that the Sox have a larger payroll than other teams. By that logic the San Diego Padres would be guilty of the same hypocracy because they have a competitive advantage over the Marlins.

 

It is safe for you to make the competitive advantage argument without getting into specifics. I'm sure you do this because you realize that the advantage isn't nearly the same advantage the Sox have over the rest of the playoff teams (and a number of non-playoff teams).

 

It's cool though. We've discussed this before and I understand where you're coming from. Your logic doesn't support your view, but the logic is internally consistent.

[Gom]

Haha, that's a great story. You didn't have the right field bleacher tickets at that time?

 

My dad was at that game, said it was the loudest he ever heard the stadium.

Nah, I didn't get season tickets until 2002.

 

As for loudness, with all due respect, not even close. Loudest ever? 1995 ALDS Game 1. The whole game was just a wall of noise. Loudest moments ever? Tie...Posada's bloop double in 03, Mattingly's homer in 95. The acoustics for the new Stadium will make it from ever being as loud. Wider stadium, more open air, and 6,000 less people will do that. No way around that. Last night was as loud as it can ever get when Victorino ended the game.

 

You know what...

 

As a hard-core fan...

 

I wish everyone gets a shot at a game like last night. Seeing your team win the championship at home...I can't tell you how it feels.

 

Especially when you've been sitting with the same fans for a decade. We all know each other, hang out a few times during the off-season, a little over 100 of us are getting together tomorrow to watch the parade together...

 

Man, it was priceless. It really was. As a fan, I hope you all feel that one day.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah, I'm not a big momentum guy either, but I didn't feel the same way as you. Going into that series, I really felt like this was the Red Sox year. They had Schilling and Pedro at the top of the rotation, and they had obliterated the Angels, while the Yankees struggled to get past the Twins. Obviously, after the Yankees went up 3-0, I liked their chances. However, I can definitely say that I never assumed it was over, and, going into the ninth inning of game four, I was still nervous about the series.

 

I think, after they lost game five, and the ways in which they had lost the previous two, I just really felt it crumbling apart. Even though we had no idea what Schilling was going to have, I didn't like the Lieber's chances of beating the Red Sox twice, and I thought the Red Sox were better equipped to handle the situation created by the game three rain out.

 

Regardless, the 2003 and 2004 (minus the WS) postseasons were two of the best the sport has ever had. It's going to be really cool, years from now, to look back and say you attended games in those years.

 

Going into the ALCS I thought the Sox were going to win too, but of course after 3-0 I considered it basically over. Even after Game 5, we had two games in New York with an injured Schilling in Game 6, and at the time Wakefield was slated for Game 7. But it all worked out.

[yankees228]

Nah, I didn't get season tickets until 2002.

 

As for loudness, with all due respect, not even close. Loudest ever? 1995 ALDS Game 1. The whole game was just a wall of noise. Loudest moments ever? Tie...Posada's bloop double in 03, Mattingly's homer in 95. The acoustics for the new Stadium will make it from ever being as loud. Wider stadium, more open air, and 6,000 less people will do that. No way around that. Last night was as loud as it can ever get when Victorino ended the game.

 

You know what...

 

As a hard-core fan...

 

I wish everyone gets a shot at a game like last night. Seeing your team win the championship at home...I can't tell you how it feels.

 

Especially when you've been sitting with the same fans for a decade. We all know each other, hang out a few times during the off-season, a little over 1000 of us are getting together tomorrow to watch the parade together...

 

Man, it was priceless. It really was. As a fan, I hope you all feel that one day.

 

Fair enough. Neither of us were at any of the games in 1995, and the place was incredibly loud when Posada tied it.

[Gom]

Get under your skin there Gom? Sure looks like it.

 

You never said the Yankees don't have a financial advantage. You simply negate the size of that advantage and also deflect any discussion about whether this has an impact on the impressiveness of their accomplishments.

 

Anytime someone tries to point out that it makes Yankees championships seem less impressive, you point out that the Sox have a larger payroll than other teams. By that logic the San Diego Padres would be guilty of the same hypocracy because they have a competitive advantage over the Marlins.

 

It is safe for you to make the competitive advantage argument without getting into specifics. I'm sure you do this because you realize that the advantage isn't nearly the same advantage the Sox have over the rest of the playoff teams (and a number of non-playoff teams).

 

It's cool though. We've discussed this before and I understand where you're coming from. Your logic doesn't support your view, but the logic is internally consistent.

The absurdity of it gets to me. I get it. The Yankees should be favored EVERY year with their payroll advantage. You know what? They are. The Red Sox should be the second team pretty much every year? You know what? They are.

 

It's not like the Yankees are favored by say, Vegas odds, to win the championship as even money. On February 4th, the Yankees were 5/2 favorites. The Red Sox were 15/2. Next were the Cubs and Mets at 7/1, then the Phillies and Angels at 11/1.

 

Are you seeing a trend here?

 

Do the Yankees have an advantage? Of course. Do the Red Sox have an advantage. Of course they do. Do the Yankees have a bigger advantage than the Red Sox? Of course they do. Which is why they are favored over the Red Sox.

 

I never said the Yankees didn't have more of an advantage than any other team. I have ALWAYS acknowledged this. All I said was the Red Sox, over the last decade, have had an advantage over every OTHER team but the Yankees. You can't see that.

 

Can you acknowledge that? If not, the debate is over.

[TheKilo]

What I find hilarious is that you simply gloss over the fact that the Red Sox are closer to San Diego than New York in payroll.

 

B-b-b-but the Red Sawx had the 2nd highest payroll! So that makes it OK!!! IF you can't acknowledge that you're not objective!!! :(:(:(

 

f***ing pathetic.

[Dipre]

What I find hilarious is that you simply gloss over the fact that the Red Sox are closer to San Diego than New York in payroll.

 

B-b-b-but the Red Sawx had the 2nd highest payroll! So that makes it OK!!! IF you can't acknowledge that you're not objective!!! :(:(:(

 

f***ing pathetic.

 

Not to mention the Sox haven't even been second in payroll the last 2 years, including last year, when they made the playoffs and the top 3 payrolls (Yanks, Detroit, Mets) didn't make it.

[Optimist]

Does this one feel hollow? NOPE. I can assure you, this one was just as great as any other I've seen. Better probably, because of the last couple years.

 

World series win is a world series win. :dunno:

[26 to 6]

We both bought Championships. Keep in mind...we also took off a ton of payroll as well. It was simply a reallocation of funds. With the signings....our payroll actually went DOWN from the season before. The same thing will probably happen this year even if we get Holliday or Lackey....or both. We are shedding bad contracts and getting good players for the same/less money.

FWIW, I think we should stay far, far away from Lackey lol.

[26 to 6]

Hilarious post.

I don't see how it was so hilarious. We might have a different sense of humor, but how can Red Sox fans honestly, and objectively deny the fact that they spend a ton of money as well. They're the second richest team in Baseball, and in 2007 when you guys last won it all you shelled out a fortune. If you guys are going to accuse the Yankees of "buying" a championship, take off the rosy red glasses and acknowledge that you guys did the exact same thing.

 

I disagree with the notion that teams can "buy" championships, however. You can buy the players that win championships, but if buying a championship were possible we would have just won our 12th consecutive World Series. Now obviously that isn't the case. Championships are won on the field, not in the checkbook.

 

All of what I just said in this post is factual, and anybody who wants to seriously debate any of it please go ahead. Bottom line, if you guys are so bitter about us "buying" our championship, shouldnt the fans of the other 28 teams have just as much right to be bitter about the Sox buying theirs?

[Dipre]

I don't see how it was so hilarious. We might have a different sense of humor, but how can Red Sox fans honestly, and objectively deny the fact that they spend a ton of money as well. They're the second richest team in Baseball, and in 2007 when you guys last won it all you shelled out a fortune. If you guys are going to accuse the Yankees of "buying" a championship, take off the rosy red glasses and acknowledge that you guys did the exact same thing.

 

I disagree with the notion that teams can "buy" championships, however. You can buy the players that win championships, but if buying a championship were possible we would have just won our 12th consecutive World Series. Now obviously that isn't the case. Championships are won on the field, not in the checkbook.

 

All of what I just said in this post is factual, and anybody who wants to seriously debate any of it please go ahead. Bottom line, if you guys are so bitter about us "buying" our championship, shouldnt the fans of the other 28 teams have just as much right to be bitter about the Sox buying theirs?

 

This is a hilarious post too.

 

That is all.

[TheKilo]

It really is f***ing hilarious. No one can expect Yankee fans to have any sense of perspective, at all.

[Dipre]

It really is f***ing hilarious. No one can expect Yankee fans to have any sense of perspective' date=' at all.[/quote']

 

I usually don't use or take generalizations seriously. This one is spot on though.

[26 to 6]

What's really hilarious is you guys. None of us our denying a financial advantage whatsoever. Yeah we won, and we were supposed to win. We spent enough money, that's for sure. But what I can't get over is how you guys criticize the Yanks for their spending and then turn a blind cheek to the spending of your own team. I just don't get it. Perhaps either of you would like to elaborate with more than just "thisz iz effin hilariouszz." I doubt it though.

[Dipre]

What's really hilarious is you guys. None of us our denying a financial advantage whatsoever. Yeah we won' date=' and we were supposed to win. We spent enough money, that's for sure. But what I can't get over is how you guys criticize the Yanks for their spending and then turn a blind cheek to the spending of your own team. I just don't get it. Perhaps either of you would like to elaborate with more than just[i'] "thisz iz effin hilariouszz."[/i] I doubt it though.

 

Please stop it, i'm laughing my ass off here, and i'm going to wake up the neighbors.

[26 to 6]

I didn't think so.

[Gom]

What I find hilarious is that you simply gloss over the fact that the Red Sox are closer to San Diego than New York in payroll.

 

B-b-b-but the Red Sawx had the 2nd highest payroll! So that makes it OK!!! IF you can't acknowledge that you're not objective!!! :(:(:(

 

f***ing pathetic.

It means nothing. The Yankees are 80 million away from the Red Sox. The Red Sox are 77 million above the Padres. Big deal.

 

STRAWMAN ALERT!!!

Show me again ONE time I never acknowledged payroll disparity. I always have. I am glad I root for a team that is willing to put money out there rather than in their pockets as according to Forbes. The Red Sox put approximately 26 million in their pockets.

 

4th highest payroll. 5th place finish. Consistent.

 

Now..show me one Red Sox fan who acknowledges your payroll disparity over the other 28 teams this decade. One second. ORS has acknowledged it. Show me another.

 

Sorry, this is the system of baseball. You're blaming the Yankees for winning. Wow. I've made this argument before. If you think it needs changing, your issue should be with Selig, not the Yankees. You take advantage of the same situation, just not to the extreme we take it to. Acknowledged...again. For the umpteenth time. At least ORS admits that odds are, if there is a hard cap, his team will be nowhere nearly as successful as it has been. He's ok with this.

 

I am not. I don't care that my team enjoys an advantage. I pay more money for my upper deck seats than 85% of all tickets in EVERY stadium. My team's ownership puts that money in a winning product, year after year. I've always stated it.

 

What you really should ask yourself is why your Red Sox ownership has dropped payroll from 143 million in 2007 [your last championship by the way] to 121 million this year.

 

Oh...they must have LOST money. They never sell out that park.

 

At least our ownership puts the money in the team. Your ownership puts the money in their pocket while crying about ours...and convincing their fan base to cry about us, while laughing all the way to the bank with your money.

 

Now that, my friend, is the definition of f***ing pathetic.

It really is f***ing hilarious. No one can expect Yankee fans to have any sense of perspective' date=' at all.[/quote']

This is the typical Red Sox fan's ******** after we win. I'm used to it.

 

Don't forget to pour yourself a frosty, ice cold mug of shut the f*** up.

[bsox0407]

Oh...they must have LOST money. They never sell out that park.

You know that the Red Sox have sold out over 500 games in a row. Right you Know that?

 

 

Don't forget to pour yourself a frosty, ice cold mug of shut the f*** up.

 

This is so lame because of the overuse. It lost any sense of being cool about a month after it was started being used.

[26 to 6]

You know that the Red Sox have sold out over 500 games in a row. Right you Know that?

 

 

 

 

This is so lame because of the overuse. It lost any sense of being cool about a month after it was started being used.

I believe he was being sarcastic. The fact that the Red Sox have sold out more than 500 consecutive games is all the more reason they should be spending.

[bsox0407]

I believe he was being sarcastic. The fact that the Red Sox have sold out more than 500 consecutive games is all the more reason they should be spending.

 

AS usual i missed the sarcasm. we have taken our money and renovated our stadium. We redid the locker rooms, most of the seats, the concourses, yet keep it enough the same that it is good for the fans.

[26 to 6]

AS usual i missed the sarcasm. we have taken our money and renovated our stadium. We redid the locker rooms' date=' most of the seats, the concourses, yet keep it enough the same that it is good for the fans.[/quote']

This is all true. The ownership up there has put a ton of money into Fenway. But in all fairness, it needed it - badly.

[bsox0407]

This is all true. The ownership up there has put a ton of money into Fenway. But in all fairness' date=' it needed it - badly.[/quote']

 

yes they used that because they didn't want to build a new Fenway.