David Ortiz DFA watch.

[Dojji]

We sort of all knew that the time would come to part company with Big Papi at some point but I think we all hoped he'd hold on a bit longer than this.

 

While I want to stay loyal to a guy who carried us to both of our recent championships, I just don't see him getting his stroke back at this point. He's had most of a season of relative health and while he's shown some flashes of the old Papi, flashes are exactly what they've been. His eye has been fine, his isolated power is fine, but there just isn't enough pitchers in this league that he can catch up with any more for us to see more than a shadow of the Big Papi of old.

 

While you want to show patience in the guy, none of us are masochists and the first and most important question for any manager or GM is what you need to do to allow the team to win baseball games. Getting a .700 OPS out of the DH spot isn't doing this.

 

David Ortiz is owed 12.5 million for next year. This is salary that is not going to be cleared. There is no one who will take one such as he on at that money. There is no point in paying him that money to sit on the bench -- and he doesn't provide anything resembling the defensive flexibility required of a bench player anyway. If he isn't effective enough to be a productive offensive player there just is no point to Big Papi.

 

In short, if he doesn't turn it around, his salary becomes a sunk cost much like Lugo's and the better course of action may well be to move on past him and cycle Lowell, Martinez and others into the DH spot as needed.

[MANNYHOF24]

We sort of all knew that the time would come to part company with Big Papi at some point but I think we all hoped he'd hold on a bit longer than this.

 

While I want to stay loyal to a guy who carried us to both of our recent championships, I just don't see him getting his stroke back at this point. He's had most of a season of relative health and while he's shown some flashes of the old Papi, flashes are exactly what they've been. His eye has been fine, his isolated power is fine, but there just isn't enough pitchers in this league that he can catch up with any more for us to see more than a shadow of the Big Papi of old.

 

While you want to show patience in the guy, none of us are masochists and the first and most important question for any manager or GM is what you need to do to allow the team to win baseball games. Getting a .700 OPS out of the DH spot isn't doing this.

 

David Ortiz is owed 12.5 million for next year. This is salary that is not going to be cleared. There is no one who will take one such as he on at that money. There is no point in paying him that money to sit on the bench -- and he doesn't provide anything resembling the defensive flexibility required of a bench player anyway. If he isn't effective enough to be a productive offensive player there just is no point to Big Papi.

 

In short, if he doesn't turn it around, his salary becomes a sunk cost much like Lugo's and the better course of action may well be to move on past him and cycle Lowell, Martinez and others into the DH spot as needed.

 

He did lead the league in homers from June 1st to august first. It's not like we have a better option to replace his roster spot. There is no way we are going to DFA while the season is happening. No chance.

[italstallianion]

While I don't think Ortiz will be DFA'd (at least not for a while), I do believe that we'd have a pretty formidable lineup with Lowell as the DH, Youk at 3rd, Martinez at 1B/C, and an acquisition or some kind at 1B. (Instead of having Varitek at Catcher)

 

Don't forget that David Ortiz is from the D.R. so there's a chance Minaya will take on his salary.

[Dojji]

Frankly George Kottaras is a better use of a roster spot than a DH who can't hit.

[Tripleplay]

Let's say Papi is gone, who do you replace him with directly or otherwise?

[Dojji]

Immediately: George Kottaras. After all, we'll get Wake back soon and DFAing Ortiz allows Youkilis, Lowell and VMart to be in the same lineup without weakening our D. I don't really think we actually need to replace him with a starting caliber hitter -- seeing as he himself hasn't been one this year. Kottaras is a little underedeveloped as a big league hitter, but he does have decent power and patience and deserves a better shot than he's gotten so far. If he CAN "get it" at the big league level it would solve some problems

 

In the offseason I would look for a competent offensive outfielder. My #1 preference is Jermaine Dye. Cycle Drew, Lowell, Martinez, and Dye through the DH spot instead of having one DH.

[CrespoBlows]

Let's say Papi is gone' date=' who do you replace him with directly or otherwise?[/quote']

 

Nick Johnson.

[Dojji]

I have nothing against getting Nick Johnson but I think that we have enough 1Bman. The maximum roster flexibility move is to retain Bay and pick up another outfielder (preferably a RF) and play a cycle of players through the DH spot.

[Tripleplay]

Nick Johnson.

 

Not for me thanks.

 

How about JJ Hardy for SS?

 

Minor league? I don't think so!

[CrespoBlows]

I have nothing against getting Nick Johnson but I think that we have enough 1Bman. The maximum roster flexibility move is to retain Bay and pick up another outfielder (preferably a RF) and play a cycle of players through the DH spot.

 

Do you have Lowell playing 3B?

[SoxSport]

Papi is a puzzle. He had that monster June after doing nothing in April-May. And now he's back to April-May. Tito is very loyal to his veterans, obviously, and he has stayed with Papi through thick and thin. He's hoping lightening will strike again, but the Sox can't afford a hole in the lineup like Papi right now, especially batting in the middle of the order. They need to get guys who are hitting in the middle. That means Bay, Lowell, Drew, Youks and VMart. It's encouraging to see Bay hitting again. Wish they would re-sign him before the end of the season. He's a must-sign.

Will they DFA Papi? That's one way to get him out of the lineup. It's a dilemma.

[TheKilo]

Dojji, what happened to Ortiz being a good bet to be productive this season when healthy and throughout the remainder of his contract? pretty sure you advocated giving him a contract extension as well.

 

Ortiz's performance (4 for his last 41) just continues to rub salt in the wound of the huge failure of the offseason from the front office. Theo's biggest challenge over the next few years is going to be finding power bats to replace the production of the older players in this lineup.

 

One signing could have taken care of the long term and the short term over the next decade.

[Dojji]

Dojji' date=' what happened to Ortiz being a good bet to be productive this season when healthy and throughout the remainder of his contract? pretty sure you advocated giving him a contract extension as well.[/quote']

 

that was obviously before the season. Even with the lost first two months of 2008 Ortiz wasn't a bad bet to bounce back in '09 before the season started and 33 isn't THAT old. Knowing what we did back then there were few reasons to give up on David Ortiz.

 

That said, obviously the situation has changed and I don't see any reason why I can't be allowed to change my opinion in light of new evidence.

[Dojji]

Do you have Lowell playing 3B?

 

I have Lowell playing 3B part time, and also possibly forming the RH part of a DH platoon with Drew. the softer schedule might help him recover and unlike Ortiz, when he's been in the lineup Lowell has still been reasonably effective.

[jacksonianmarch]

David Ortiz is not getting DFAd. First of all, enough fans in NE are in love with the guy to overlook his numbers. Hell, even some of the toughest critics in sports on WEEI are standing behind this guy and his "supplement" usage. There is something different between Papi and the sox media and the sox fans. As long as he's doing something, he'll be staying in Boston. Also, the sox are on the hook for big money through 2010. So, even if it means less playing time this yr, it behooves them to see if he has anything left in the tank for 2010. If, come midseason 2010, he still sucks, then a DFA and a quiet ride into the sunset is in order. Nobody in their right mind would take his contract.

[Dojji]

First of all' date=' enough fans in NE are in love with the guy to overlook his numbers. There is something different between Papi and the sox media and the sox fans.[/quote']

 

Being a fan favorite is enough to keep you from being DFA'd? That's news to me.

 

As long as he's doing something, he'll be staying in Boston.

 

What part of a .700 OPS from the DH spot counts as "doing something?"

Also, the sox are on the hook for big money through 2010.

That didn't save Lugo.

 

So, even if it means less playing time this yr, it behooves them to see if he has anything left in the tank for 2010.

 

Not unless he really shows something in the last month and a half. We're right in the middle of a playoff run, if Ortiz had anything in the tank we'd be seeing it right now.

[Gosawks]

The money would not be that overwhelming to eat. He is in the last year of his deal and it would be a lot better then just letting him stay in the DH spot and not be productive or him sitting on the bench and wasting a roster spot. At this point you cant keep on throwing him out there and just have him be a dud in our lineup. His time is up. You put Lowell in the DH spot and play Youk at 3rd and V-Mart and switch around accordingly. Thats how you have to work it to be able to get into the playoffs and too be able to have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.

[CrespoBlows]

I have Lowell playing 3B part time' date=' and also possibly forming the RH part of a DH platoon with Drew. the softer schedule might help him recover and unlike Ortiz, when he's been in the lineup Lowell has still been reasonably effective.[/quote']

 

I would probably subtract Kotchman for a few prospects

[Spudboy]

David Ortiz is not getting DFAd. First of all' date=' enough fans in NE are in love with the guy to overlook his numbers. Hell, even some of the toughest critics in sports on WEEI are standing behind this guy and his "supplement" usage. There is something different between Papi and the sox media and the sox fans. As long as he's doing something, he'll be staying in Boston. Also, the sox are on the hook for big money through 2010. So, even if it means less playing time this yr, it behooves them to see if he has anything left in the tank for 2010. If, come midseason 2010, he still sucks, then a DFA and a quiet ride into the sunset is in order. Nobody in their right mind would take his contract.[/quote']

 

That about sums it up.

[a700hitter]

That about sums it up.

He needs to hit if this team is going to have a chance. It's a bad sign that he is not hitting at Fenway right now.

[Dipre]

To make it worse, it doesn't even seem mechanical anymore.

 

His stance is normal, his timing's not bad, he's not favoring either foot or pivoting the back one.

 

Quite simply, he's sucking.

[diony]

To make it worse, it doesn't even seem mechanical anymore.

 

His stance is normal, his timing's not bad, he's not favoring either foot or pivoting the back one.

 

Quite simply, he's sucking.

 

No s*** sherlock

[jacksonianmarch]

To make it worse, it doesn't even seem mechanical anymore.

 

His stance is normal, his timing's not bad, he's not favoring either foot or pivoting the back one.

 

Quite simply, he's sucking.

 

Today isnt a good barometer. It has been known for some time now that Ortiz cannot get around on a good fastball, and Verlander's is the best in the business. That being said, he has fallen off the map since his solid June

[Dipre]

No s***

 

Well you know a lot about s***.

 

You are full of it, after all.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well you know a lot about s***.

 

You are full of it, after all.

 

cut the flaming lest you get into a war and end up suspended for a few days.

[Dipre]

cut the flaming lest you get into a war and end up suspended for a few days.

 

The trolling needs to stop.

 

Do you not agree?

[YAZMAN]

David Ortiz is not getting DFAd. First of all' date=' enough fans in NE are in love with the guy to overlook his numbers. Hell, even some of the toughest critics in sports on WEEI are standing behind this guy and his "supplement" usage. There is something different between Papi and the sox media and the sox fans. As long as he's doing something, he'll be staying in Boston. Also, the sox are on the hook for big money through 2010. So, even if it means less playing time this yr, it behooves them to see if he has anything left in the tank for 2010. If, come midseason 2010, he still sucks, then a DFA and a quiet ride into the sunset is in order. Nobody in their right mind would take his contract.[/quote']

 

He may get hot again in September. He may not.

 

He probably will work his ass off in the offseason seeing as he's going into a contract year and his knee can finally handle it. Regardless, all thing the same he'll probably fare better next year because quite frankly he can't do much worse. The Sox won't sign him, and physically he will deteriorate quickly.

[SoxSport]

I don't see the Ortiz issue as steroids, or popularity, or past performance or salary. The issue is what is needed for this 150 million dollar team to get to the playoffs. They have to do what's best for winning. If they don't do that, they probably won't make the playoffs, and they will be cheating themselves and their fans. It's about the team, not individuals.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I would be shocked if he were to be DFA this season.

[SCM33]

Trade deadline next year.